All things

[fhansen]

Did God will the cross?

It's the same. The evil that men do is incorporated into His plan. The "God side" of the cross is sheer love, an act of sacrificial self-giving for the benefit of humankind. Man's motivation is darkness- hating Him, hating pure perfect innocence, truth, goodness, and love, without reason. Good and evil meet at the cross, and evil is overcome there, in spite of evil's best efforts.

 

[Hammster]

I don’t think authority is the right word here. Yeah He has the authority to stop me from sinning. Does He exercise that authority? No because I still sin from time to time.

He lets you sin, though, correct?

 

[Hammster]

It's the same. The evil that men do is incorporated into His plan. The "God side" of the cross is sheer love, an act of sacrificial self-giving for the benefit of humankind. Man's motivation is darkness- hating Him, hating pure perfect innocence, truth, goodness, and love, without reason. Good and evil meet at the cross, and evil is overcome there, in spite of evil's best efforts.

So would I be correct in assuming that you don’t believe that God can restrain evil?

 

[fhansen]

So would I be correct in assuming that you don’t believe that God can restrain evil?

You should reread my posts if you think I said that. Allowing evil is quite different from being unable to restrain it-just as directly causing evil is different as well.

 

[Hammster]

You should reread my posts if you think I said that. Allowing evil is quite different from being unable to restrain it-just as directly causing evil is different as well.

Okay, then God could just let evil happen if He has a purpose for it, right?

 

[Mark Quayle]

In Genesis: God created everything then slept for a day, did not feel the need to supervise.

Not that I understand the point you are trying to make here, but no, it does not say he slept, but rested. One use of the word, "rest", in context here, is that he merely halted his activity. Nor does it imply he "did not feel the need to supervise."

But I'm glad you used that verbiage, because it helps me identify your POV. It is anthropomorphism that sees God's eminence, his pervasive existence, his "in whom we live and move and have our being", as mere supervision.

 

[Cormack]

Those verses do not suggest he is responding, by judgement. I think it's clear he is taking a lead role and is the cause.

The cause of what? Evil or calamity, because they’re not the same thing. That’s why we don’t do verse theology, sir. We read the entire context like big boys wearing our big boy pants, so, what does Amos 3 teach about God bringing judgement against wicked nations?

The Bible doesn’t teach God goes off half cockeyed, “taking a lead role” to help destroy nations at random or on a whim, initiating their ruin without a thought as to their behaviours. In fact the opposite is explained, God responds to the sinfulness of people and places (e.g. the canaanites, Sodom, Israel,) after which there’s judgement.

Verse 1

Hear this word, people of Israel, the word the Lord has spoken against you—against the whole family I brought up out of Egypt:
​

Verse 2

“You only have I chosen of all the families of the earth; therefore I will punish you for all your sins.”
​

Verse 6

When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble? When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it?​

Verses 13 & 14

“Hear this and testify against the descendants of Jacob,” declares the Lord, the Lord God Almighty. “On the day I punish Israel for her sins, I will destroy the altars of Bethel; the horns of the altar will be cut off and fall to the ground.​

I was infracted for simply calling the arminian God a fraud,

Well, you shouldn’t call other people’s God fraud, that’s naughty.

Can we have some balance here?

Perhaps the eternal decree is imbalanced. Still that’s not the sort of thing you can complain about, who are you O man to talk back to God, God and his eternal plans to infract you

 

[Mark Quayle]

Hammster,

The NET Bible footnote to Eph 5:20 is a sober reminder of the Greek grammar and the need for sound exegesis to translate, ὑπὲρ πάντων (huper pantðn) : 'Grk “for all.” The form “all” can be either neuter or masculine, and an alternative view is “for all” referring to people. The context could suggest believers (“one another” in v. 19). In other places this Greek phrase occurs in the NT, it refers to people (1 Tim 2:6; 2 Cor 5:14-15)'.

You have accepted only one view that 'all' is neuter (all things) when it provides a completely different light when translated according to the context, 'for all people'.

Oz

"All" things in Greek are not only neuter.

 

[All Glory To God]

The cause of what? Evil or calamity, because they’re not the same thing. That’s why we don’t do verse theology, sir. We read the entire context like big boys wearing our big boy pants, so, what does Amos 3 teach about God bringing judgement against wicked nations?

The Bible doesn’t teach God goes off half cockeyed, “taking a lead role” to help destroy nations at random or on a whim, initiating their ruin without a thought as to their behaviours. In fact the opposite is explained, God responds to the sinfulness of people and places (e.g. the canaanites, Sodom, Israel,) after which there’s judgement.

Verse 1

Hear this word, people of Israel, the word the Lord has spoken against you—against the whole family I brought up out of Egypt:
​

Verse 2

“You only have I chosen of all the families of the earth; therefore I will punish you for all your sins.”
​

Verse 6

When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble? When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it?​

Verses 13 & 14

“Hear this and testify against the descendants of Jacob,” declares the Lord, the Lord God Almighty. “On the day I punish Israel for her sins, I will destroy the altars of Bethel; the horns of the altar will be cut off and fall to the ground.​

Well, you shouldn’t call other people’s God fraud, that’s naughty.



Perhaps the eternal decree is imbalanced. Still that’s not the sort of thing you can complain about, who are you O man to talk back to God, God and his eternal plans to infract you

You are using your libertarian free will for sarcasm, not love. That is sin

 

[Dave L]

I don’t know how you came to that conclusion. I never implied that God did not create us. He created us as sentient beings capable of making choices. He did not preprogram us to be robots only capable of acting out the program He installed. View attachment 288693

If he created all, he created all that you think, say, or do for all of your life. You are some sort of god assuming his creative role otherwise.

 

[Dave L]

Sorry I hadn’t got to the post where you posted this verse. We can control our tongue after we repent and receive the Holy Spirit.


“If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is worthless.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:26‬ ‭NASB

John says we lie if we say we have no sin. And the flesh is wicked from where the tongue speaks. How many times do people lie on the forums thinking they know the truth?

 

[fhansen]

Okay, then God could just let evil happen if He has a purpose for it, right?

Yes, that's the only reason He would allow it, knowing the beginning from the end and purposing to ultimately bring an even greater good out of the evil that occurs as an abuse of human free will, similar to the story of Joseph and his brothers.
"You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives." Gen 50:20

The bible from beginning to end is about God dealing with man's will, without totally determining that will-and that's why all the time and drama and suffering have existed and occurred to begin with. God seeks to change our wills, but by love, so that we'll love in return. And love always involves choice.
The cross is the ultimate expression of this love that draws us to itself without forcing us to respond.

 

[Hammster]

Yes, that's the only reason He would allow it, knowing the beginning from the end and purposing to ultimately bring an even greater good out of the evil that occurs as an abuse of human free will, similar to the story of Joseph and his brothers.
"You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives." Gen 50:20

The bible from beginning to end is about God dealing with man's will, without totally determining that will-and that's why all the time and drama and suffering have existed and occurred to begin with. God seeks to change our wills, but by love, so that we'll love in return. And love always involves choice.
The cross is the ultimate expression of this love that draws us to itself without forcing us to respond.

You have a distinction without a difference. If God allows evil to happen, and He could stop it, it’s no different than bringing a “greater good” out of sinful actions. And in your view, He can’t actually bring a greater good without violating someone else’s free will.

I think it’s best to believe that God has a purpose for sin, and even though we don’t understand it, we should give thanks in all circumstances. Count it all joy.

 

[98cwitr]

That picture wasn’t directed towards God it was directed towards Calvin’s doctrines.

Really seems it's rather directed at Reformed Theology as a whole, including doctrines espoused by Martin Luther. You should read "Bondage of the Will" by him.

 

[98cwitr]

John says we lie if we say we have no sin. And the flesh is wicked from where the tongue speaks. How many times do people lie on the forums thinking they know the truth?

John then goes onto say that we do not continue to sin (1 John 3:6-9; 1 John 5:18). Paul also says this in Hebrews 10:26. How would we reconcile this theologically? I always took 1 John 1:8 as reference of our sinful state of being prior to regeneration, and thus requiring confession.

 

[BNR32FAN]

He lets you sin, though, correct?

Of course.

 

[Hammster]

Of course.

Which means there is a purpose.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If he created all, he created all that you think, say, or do for all of your life. You are some sort of god assuming his creative role otherwise.

Then your saying God is the author of sin.


“And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭NASB

Is God the spirit working in the sons of disobedience? Let me give you a hint. Notice the lower case “s” in the word spirit? You’ll never see a lower case letter at the beginning of any word referring to God in the scriptures.

 

[BNR32FAN]

John says we lie if we say we have no sin. And the flesh is wicked from where the tongue speaks. How many times do people lie on the forums thinking they know the truth?

I wouldn’t say someone is a liar if they truly believe they are speaking the truth. They’ve simply made a mistake. A lie is intended to deceive, a mistake is not.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Really seems it's rather directed at Reformed Theology as a whole, including doctrines espoused by Martin Luther. You should read "Bondage of the Will" by him.

Well I don’t support reformed theology at all but this particular post was directed towards Calvin’s doctrines. I’m not really interested in reading about someone’s theology that I disagree with.