All Israel is saved

[Soar Like and Eagle]

I see, you think that Genesis 2:16-27 are in the 6th and it was on the 7th day that God did what is stated at Genesis 2:7

Well that explains it all. You don't know how to read. For verse 15 tells us that God "took the man [you know, the one just spoken of being made in verse 7], and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it."

I feel so much better now about you. Here I was beginning to get very worried that you had been too severe corrupted by the highly demonically influence extra Jewish works and that you just might be beyond reaching to help. But being as you simply do not know how to read, that gives me good cause to maintain some hope for you.

By the way, I'm not so certain you fully understand 1 Peter 3:18-20 either. And you told me you had gotten out of Babylon.

I totally understand 1 Peter 2:18-20 but your rejection of Universal Salvation so I doubt you understand it. You never address the post I have posted on US as I have address your doctrines of damnation verses that is why I see this a a one sided.

Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable (the destruction which consists of eternal misery in hell) heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Damn…. Strong's NT:684 apoleia (ap-o'-li-a); from a presumed derivative of NT:622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal): destroying, utter destruction
a perishing, ruin, destruction

the destruction which consists of eternal misery in hell

 

[Buzz_B]

I totally understand 1 Peter 2:18-20 but your rejection of Universal Salvation so I doubt you understand it. You never address the post I have posted on US as I have address your doctrines of damnation verses that is why I see this a a one sided.

Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable (the destruction which consists of eternal misery in hell) heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Damn…. Strong's NT:684 apoleia (ap-o'-li-a); from a presumed derivative of NT:622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal): destroying, utter destruction
a perishing, ruin, destruction

the destruction which consists of eternal misery in hell

You just proved that some are just as Jesus said, "already judged", and their damnation already completed. It is right there in your own words if you would stop trying to bend what was said to suit what you desire to believe.

You add the thought "(the destruction which consists of eternal misery in hell)" with retained Babylonian understanding instead of advancing to see what that insertion of the pagan "hell"really refers to.

You tear my heart out feeling so much sorrow for you.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

You just proved that some are just as Jesus said, "already judged", and their damnation already completed. It is right there in your own words if you would stop trying to bend what was said to suit what you desire to believe.

You add the thought "(the destruction which consists of eternal misery in hell)" with retained Babylonian understanding instead of advancing to see what that insertion of the pagan "hell"really refers to.

You tear my heart out feeling so much sorrow for you.

No I quoted a scripture about false teachers like you who damn people
that is Babylonian teaching as well as from Rome. I do not damn people you do and this verse is address false teachers like you. You are the so called Greek expert.

Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable (the destruction which consists of eternal misery in hell) heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Damn…. Strong's NT:684 apoleia (ap-o'-li-a); from a presumed derivative of NT:622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal): destroying, utter destruction
a perishing, ruin, destruction

 

[Buzz_B]

No I quoted a scripture about false teachers like you who damn people
that is Babylonian teaching as well as from Rome. I do not damn people you do and this verse is address false teachers like you. You are the so called Greek expert.

Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable (the destruction which consists of eternal misery in hell) heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Damn…. Strong's NT:684 apoleia (ap-o'-li-a); from a presumed derivative of NT:622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal): destroying, utter destruction
a perishing, ruin, destruction

Being ardently wrong is not going to make you right. Why not dispense with the negative emotion and save the energy your emotion wastes so that you can place it toward thinking more soundly.

First of all, you know very well that you believe hell in the way the CCC began to exhibit it. I don't. So how is it you imagine that I am the one retaining their doctrine when so very clearly it is you? After all, you are the one that said you had gotten out of Babylon. Were you just thinking physically? Have you really gotten out spiritually?

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Being ardently wrong is not going to make you right. Why not dispense with the negative emotion and save the energy your emotion wastes so that you can place it toward thinking more soundly.

First of all, you know very well that you believe hell in the way the CCC began to exhibit it. I don't. So how is it you imagine that I am the one retaining their doctrine when so very clearly it is you?

I am ardently correct here. That is why you DID NOT refute to this verse. Not emotions... just stating fact. You love to spin the thins you do not agree with or refuse to address them this is the normal behavior of your postings.

What is CCC? No I do not believe in hell it is a mis-translations of one Hebrew word and three Greek Words.

The word hell is not even in the original language of the Bible; it is a total mistranslation. The words Sheol, Hades, Tartarus and Gehenna have no root or meaning in the word hell. The word hell came from an Angle Saxon word meaning to bury. You go to the UK today and you can hel your potatoes.

She-ol (eol) [[Heb shaal , to dig]] a place in the depths of the earth conceived of as the dwelling of the dead Note: translated in KJV about haft of scriptures as hell, the other haft as grave
Ha-des(hadez) [[Gr Haides ]] 1 Gr. Myth. a) the home of the dead, beneath the earth b) the god of the underworld 2 Bible the state or resting place of the dead: name used in some modern translations of the New Testament
Yes there is a Tar-ta-rus (tart rs) [[ Gr Tartaros ]] Gr. Myth. 1 an infernal abyss below Hades, where Zeus hurls the rebel Titans, later a place of punishment for the demons and devils not people. (mentioned only once in the Bible)
Those who go to Gehenna are not sinners of the world; but are sinners of God’s people. (how precious is this a type of purification outside of God’s holy city. All things that are not of God will be purified by God’s holy judgment.

Jesus was not speaking to the world/pagan people/sinners; he was speaking to the Jews (believers during His time He walked o n this earth); when ever He used this Greek word Gehenna. The Teutonic pagan word Hell Gehenna is not physical flames, even though Gehenna is the garbage dump outside the city of Jerusalem. Gehenna Judgment is actually spiritual in nature; it is the reaping of what Israel had sown by killing the prophets and their children in the fire to Molech and Baal at Topheth and in the Valley of Ben Hiddom (later called Gehenna). God warned that those who go to Gehenna are not sinners of the world; but are sinners of God’s people. (how precious is this a type of purification outside of God’s holy city. All things that are not of God will be purified by God’s holy judgment. This word is used not for sinner, murders or liars; it is used with the word “BROTHER”.
Gehenna is not physical flames, even though Gehenna is the garbage dump outside the city of Jerusalem. Gehenna Judgment is actually spiritual in nature, it is the reaping of what Isreal had sown by killing the prophets and their children in the fire to Molech and Baal at Topheth and in the Valley of Ben Hiddom (later called Gehenna). God warned that He is the only God, there is no other like Him.

Matthew 5:22

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (Gehenna) fire.

 

[Buzz_B]

I am ardently correct here. That is why you DID NOT refute to this verse. Not emotions... just stating fact. You love to spin the thins you do not agree with or refuse to address them this is the normal behavior of your postings.

OK, that is good to know. I do not begrudge you that right even if I do view your opinion as mistaken, especially as you called me a "false teacher" and before that kept calling me a baby goat. As the saying goes, "Just don't call me late for dinner."

But you might want to abbreviate those things so that the moderators are not driven crazy. Like if you just typed BG I would know you meant baby goat or G for goat. For false teacher, FT,

For some you may need to make that BG, BG (NTRMG), baby goat, not the rock music group.

What is CCC?

An error on my part. I meant to type, RCC.

No I do not believe in hell it is a mis-translations of one Hebrew word and three Greek Words.

The word hell is not even in the original language of the Bible; it is a total mistranslation. The words Sheol, Hades, Tartarus and Gehenna have no root or meaning in the word hell. The word hell came from an Angle Saxon word meaning to bury. You go to the UK today and you can hel your potatoes.

She-ol (eol) [[Heb shaal , to dig]] a place in the depths of the earth conceived of as the dwelling of the dead Note: translated in KJV about haft of scriptures as hell, the other haft as grave
Ha-des(hadez) [[Gr Haides ]] 1 Gr. Myth. a) the home of the dead, beneath the earth b) the god of the underworld 2 Bible the state or resting place of the dead: name used in some modern translations of the New Testament
Yes there is a Tar-ta-rus (tart rs) [[ Gr Tartaros ]] Gr. Myth. 1 an infernal abyss below Hades, where Zeus hurls the rebel Titans, later a place of punishment for the demons and devils not people. (mentioned only once in the Bible)
Those who go to Gehenna are not sinners of the world; but are sinners of God’s people. (how precious is this a type of purification outside of God’s holy city. All things that are not of God will be purified by God’s holy judgment.

Jesus was not speaking to the world/pagan people/sinners; he was speaking to the Jews (believers during His time He walked o n this earth); when ever He used this Greek word Gehenna. The Teutonic pagan word Hell Gehenna is not physical flames, even though Gehenna is the garbage dump outside the city of Jerusalem. Gehenna Judgment is actually spiritual in nature; it is the reaping of what Israel had sown by killing the prophets and their children in the fire to Molech and Baal at Topheth and in the Valley of Ben Hiddom (later called Gehenna). God warned that those who go to Gehenna are not sinners of the world; but are sinners of God’s people. (how precious is this a type of purification outside of God’s holy city. All things that are not of God will be purified by God’s holy judgment. This word is used not for sinner, murders or liars; it is used with the word “BROTHER”.
Gehenna is not physical flames, even though Gehenna is the garbage dump outside the city of Jerusalem. Gehenna Judgment is actually spiritual in nature, it is the reaping of what Isreal had sown by killing the prophets and their children in the fire to Molech and Baal at Topheth and in the Valley of Ben Hiddom (later called Gehenna). God warned that He is the only God, there is no other like Him.

Matthew 5:22

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (Gehenna) fire.

Very good. I give you a B+ on that description. Hel is also Old Norris origin and was the name of their Scandinavian queen of the underworld. Thus the pagan connection.

Now just rid yourself of the pagan view of immortal souls and you will be even further out of Babylon spiritually. The spirits in prison were not human surviving souls. They were angels that sinned. So the logical next question would be, 'Why would Jesus go herald (which is the actual meaning of the Greek word) the news that he was back from the dead to those angels that had sinned? The word translated as prison simply means caged. It could just mean spiritually separated from the rest of God's angels. Could it be that he was putting them on notice of something? That is a fascinating question.

 

[GenemZ]

And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
Romans 11:26

1.) All Israel will be saved is referring to ethnic Israel based on surrounding context.

As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.
Romans 11:28

2.) Only the remnant of Israel is saved

And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,
Romans 9:27

How is ONLY the remnant of Israel saved AND ALL Israel saved?

3.) Not all Israel is Israel

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
Romans 9:6-8

Only the ethnic remant is true Israel, therefore, God saving all the ethnic remnant of Israel chosen according grace, is saving All ethnic Israel.

Just address some of what you said to establish a needed perspective.

You stated.. Not all Israel is Israel. Jacob's twin brother shared the same genes. Jacob was the only Jew of the two. Esau was not a believer in Elohim.

You also stated another passage.

And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;

God refers to Jews who are negative as Jacob. "Jacob" meant chiseler. Jacob after he matured and became noble before God was later renamed "Israel" - "God prevails." When God refers to Jews as Jacob in the OT? That means those Jews were being negative in their walk like Jacob.

Those Jews who will believe at the time of the return of Christ are referred to as "Jacob." Like Jacob they will turn from their evil ways of rejecting what God wants of believers when they see the Lord.
"He will banish ungodliness from Jacob”

“The Deliverer will come from Zion"..

When Jesus comes back down to earth he will place himself on Zion. Zion was the name of fort/castle David lived in ... later to be replaced by the Temple mount. For, David's son Solomon dismantled a part of Fort Zion so that the Temple could be build on that site in Jerusalem.

Zion was the home (castle) and headquarters of King David. David was a king warrior. Jesus will return as the fierce warrior and will destroy all his enemies on earth coming against His people.

 

[Buzz_B]

Just address some of what you said to establish a needed perspective.

You stated.. Not all Israel is Israel. Jacob's twin brother shared the same genes. Jacob was the only Jew of the two. Esau was not a believer in Elohim.

Elaborate on your point a bit further here.

What does that mean to you? How to your mind does that make a difference in what claninja spoke?

If you are implying that those whom Paul said were not really Israel are sons of Esau, you are seriously mistaking and taking a stand which sides with remaining rebellious non-Christian Jews who invented that farcical claim. "Not all OF Jacob", means unequivocally, "Not all born of Jacob", and is definitely referring to the progenitor.

Edit: Just to add a thought, another passage which those of us who wish to twist the Scriptures in support our selves misinterpret, is, Romans 2:28-19

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

We of a fleshly defense tend to think of that as speaking of the ethnic or natural Jew and merely meaning that an ethnic or natural Jew must be true to his heritage before he can be considered a true Jew. But the context must be ignored to pull that off. For the context is not a reference to the ethnicity but to the spirituality. And therefore on that basis anyone can be deemed of God a Jew spiritually if they meet up with what he requires of the Jew. In the same way as anyone who shows the tenacity of the faith which Abraham portrayed can be considered an authentic spiritual Israelite. That was the purpose behind why Jacob had to wrestle the angel. To demonstrate that necessary tenacity and thus the meaning you gave for the name, "Israel."

 

[SBC]

natural and spirit do not compute.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

I see man a spirit, soul and flesh. Man spirit is what we are for we were all created in God's image and likeness and God is a spirit so that that image and likeness is a spirit part of man our essence of who we rally are.

When Adam died because of sin he did not die physically for he lived to be 930 years old but his spirit died to the realm of God. So Adam became a became a soul man, a dust man a non-spiritual man.

So to understand spiritually dead we need to see God uses physical/natural realities as examples for that what is spiritual or a spiritual language. Seriously is the lamb of God a bay sheep that eats grass. Same with the realm of spiritual death. So when Ephesians speaks of dead in trustpasses and sins it is speaking of the spirit being dead to the realm of God.

That is why carnal man cannot choose salvation for he sees all things from God as foolishness because he is dead from the realm of God. It takes God's grace, his drawing his quickening to make us alive spiritually so we can begin our spiritual walk.

I see some things differently than you.

Firstly;

Natural man = man of dust of the earth.
Natural man = Carnal, Mortal, subject to death, ie WILL die.
The form, ie the body
The covering of the form, ie the flesh
All that is within the natural body,
Ie
Blood = life of man
Heart = keeps life of blood functioning
Natural spirit = True thoughts IN HEART
Brain= True & false thoughts IN MIND
systems = nerves, bones, organs, muscles, etc.

Natural man ~ Becomes an ALIVE & LIVING individual
When God gives a man A LIVING SOUL, via His BREATH.

Natural man is corrupt ~
Born IN SIN.
.....does not know or Believe in God

Can do nothing of his own, works, ideas, power, etc. to please God.

Every day the man is NOT WITH God, his internal living soul, is being corrupted, being in the mans corrupt body of sin.

Jesus' WAY, to resolve the corrupt man's sin..
Is to learn about Him
...called being enlightened
The man being enlightened, is given ..measures of faith
If the man continues learning ABOUT God
....and believing what he learns
....his faith is increased.

If the man stops believing, stops following and learning
...the man falls away from faith
...he stops receiving enlightenment
...he stops receiving faith from God.

If the man continues learing and believing...
....AND his TRUE BELIEF is from his
...natural spirits thoughts in his heart.
......And the man CONFESSES his true belief
......from his heart to God...

THAT ^ is a declaration, a VOW to God,
Of the man Giving His living body as
A sacrifice TO GOD.


THEN GOD CONVERTS the man.
The mans ....
Natural body of sin is forgive, for disbelief
Spiritual soul is forgiven its sin of corruption
Natural body is spiritually crucified with Christ
Natural body is washed in Jesus' blood
Natural body is sanctified, by Jesus' blood
Natural body is justified, to be redeemed
Natural body is Kept with Christ.
Spiritual soul is RESTORED
Natural heart is CIRCUMCISED, ie new heart
Natural spirit is BORN again, from Gods Seed
Gods Spirit dwells in new heart, with mans
....new spirit.
God Spirit, Spirit of Truth, fellowships with,
....teaches mans new spirit, Gods Truths.

Natural body is dead to sin, sins no more.
Natural man is called a NEW MAN.
Natural man now LIVES IN CHRIST.
Natural man now is called, a son of God.
Natural man now is Forever WITH the Lord.
Natural man is now prepared to Serve God.
Natural man is now prepared to be redeemed, at any day, the Lord descends from Heaven, and calls up the man to Him in the clouds, to have his body glorified.

That man can continue learing from the Jews, whom God Himself chose their ancestors, the Hebrews to be the Teachers to mankind.

The Jews Jesus chose, as well as Jesus' teaching, and written for the benefit of the world, TO LEARN, behaviors, works and ways that are ACCEPTABLE ways for a man to SERVE God, that GLORIFIES HIS NAME.

And men WHO accomplish Serving the Lord that DOES Glorify HIS NAME....He himself shall reward the man.

So, I disagree with you, about a mans spirit.
A mans natural spirit is his TRUTH in his heart. It is God who requires, the mans Truth in his heart, as a confession of Belief in God.

It is the natural spirit of man (his truth), that was born and foster from a man corruptible seed.

It is God INCORRUPTABLE SEED, that REBIRTHS the mans natural spirit, to a spiritual spirit, with a NEW TRUTH, ie; Gods Truth.

Secondly;

Made in Gods Likeness.
Male and Female God made and called Adam.
Adam was made in Gods Likeness and image.

Is the rest of mankind made in Gods likeness?
No.
Gen 5:1 ~ 2

God likeness is Good. Adam was made Good.
Adam fell, to what we later call sin.
Adam disobeyed the Truth, ie God.
Adams children were made in Adam's likeness and image, and thereafter the same for all men and no man is good.

Then if and when a man becomes restored, reconciled, converted, man again becomes good. Matt 12:35


Agree God draws men to Him.

God also calls MANY, but chooses few.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

So for this reason all that you have decided that are not God chosen will be tortured forever and ever and ever and ever WITH NO MERCY.

I didn't mention torture, you did.
What scripture are you referring to?

I didn't mention no mercy, you did.
What scripture are you referring to?

If you think this is SICK!!
Perhaps you should wonder why you stated these things.

Along with all the other people God has never called?

What about a man never called?
Does he have an excuse to not hear and believe?

Rom 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,
Being understood by the things that are made;
Even his eternal power and Godhead;
So THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE.

Are you trying to MAKE EXCUSES for men?
SICK!!

Is this the Quran

Torture? No mercy? IDK, I didn't bring it up you did. So you tell me where you got it from.

or the Word of God?

IDK, you tell me where you got it from.

Is this Jesus the savior or Allah?

You tell me, where you get your teaching, and provide the scriptures for your cliams of torture and no mercy.

Sounds more like Islam to me. Sick

Perhaps you are unsure of what religion you follow. Doesn't have anything to do with me.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Buzz_B]

I see some things differently than you.

Firstly;

Natural man = man of dust of the earth.
Natural man = Carnal, Mortal, subject to death, ie WILL die.
The form, ie the body
The covering of the form, ie the flesh
All that is within the natural body,
Ie
Blood = life of man
Heart = keeps life of blood functioning
Natural spirit = True thoughts IN HEART
Brain= True & false thoughts IN MIND
systems = nerves, bones, organs, muscles, etc.

Natural man ~ Becomes an ALIVE & LIVING individual
When God gives a man A LIVING SOUL, via His BREATH.

Natural man is corrupt ~
Born IN SIN.
.....does not know or Believe in God

Can do nothing of his own, works, ideas, power, etc. to please God.

Every day the man is NOT WITH God, his internal living soul, is being corrupted, being in the mans corrupt body of sin.

Jesus' WAY, to resolve the corrupt man's sin..
Is to learn about Him
...called being enlightened
The man being enlightened, is given ..measures of faith
If the man continues learning ABOUT God
....and believing what he learns
....his faith is increased.

If the man stops believing, stops following and learning
...the man falls away from faith
...he stops receiving enlightenment
...he stops receiving faith from God.

If the man continues learing and believing...
....AND his TRUE BELIEF is from his
...natural spirits thoughts in his heart.
......And the man CONFESSES his true belief
......from his heart to God...

THAT ^ is a declaration, a VOW to God,
Of the man Giving His living body as
A sacrifice TO GOD.


THEN GOD CONVERTS the man.
The mans ....
Natural body of sin is forgive, for disbelief
Spiritual soul is forgiven its sin of corruption
Natural body is spiritually crucified with Christ
Natural body is washed in Jesus' blood
Natural body is sanctified, by Jesus' blood
Natural body is justified, to be redeemed
Natural body is Kept with Christ.
Spiritual soul is RESTORED
Natural heart is CIRCUMCISED, ie new heart
Natural spirit is BORN again, from Gods Seed
Gods Spirit dwells in new heart, with mans
....new spirit.
God Spirit, Spirit of Truth, fellowships with,
....teaches mans new spirit, Gods Truths.

Natural body is dead to sin, sins no more.
Natural man is called a NEW MAN.
Natural man now LIVES IN CHRIST.
Natural man now is called, a son of God.
Natural man now is Forever WITH the Lord.
Natural man is now prepared to Serve God.
Natural man is now prepared to be redeemed, at any day, the Lord descends from Heaven, and calls up the man to Him in the clouds, to have his body glorified.

That man can continue learing from the Jews, whom God Himself chose their ancestors, the Hebrews to be the Teachers to mankind.

The Jews Jesus chose, as well as Jesus' teaching, and written for the benefit of the world, TO LEARN, behaviors, works and ways that are ACCEPTABLE ways for a man to SERVE God, that GLORIFIES HIS NAME.

And men WHO accomplish Serving the Lord that DOES Glorify HIS NAME....He himself shall reward the man.

So, I disagree with you, about a mans spirit.
A mans natural spirit is his TRUTH in his heart. It is God who requires, the mans Truth in his heart, as a confession of Belief in God.

It is the natural spirit of man (his truth), that was born and foster from a man corruptible seed.

It is God INCORRUPTABLE SEED, that REBIRTHS the mans natural spirit, to a spiritual spirit, with a NEW TRUTH, ie; Gods Truth.

Secondly;

Made in Gods Likeness.
Male and Female God made and called Adam.
Adam was made in Gods Likeness and image.

Is the rest of mankind made in Gods likeness?
No.
Gen 5:1 ~ 2

God likeness is Good. Adam was made Good.
Adam fell, to what we later call sin.
Adam disobeyed the Truth, ie God.
Adams children were made in Adam's likeness and image, and thereafter the same for all men and no man is good.

Then if and when a man becomes restored, reconciled, converted, man again becomes good. Matt 12:35


Agree God draws men to Him.

God also calls MANY, but chooses few.

God Bless,
SBC

Sometimes it seems to me you are on track but not in this post. I have many questions concerning this post.

 

[SBC]

Sometimes it seems to me you are on track but not in this post. I have many questions concerning this post.

Okay. Mind quoting my comment, then your question about it?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Buzz_B]

I didn't mention torture, you did.
What scripture are you referring to?

I didn't mention no mercy, you did.
What scripture are you referring to?

If you think this is SICK!!
Perhaps you should wonder why you stated these things.



What about a man never called?
Does he have an excuse to not hear and believe?

Rom 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,
Being understood by the things that are made;
Even his eternal power and Godhead;
So THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE.

SBC

He confused me a bit also by saying, "So for this reason all that you have decided that are not God chosen will be tortured forever and ever and ever and ever WITH NO MERCY."

What he means is that if you do not accept his view of universal salvation you are calling God cruel. And that proves he does not really understand the balance of love, mercy, and justice of God.

 

[Buzz_B]

Okay. Mind quoting my comment, then your question about it?

God Bless,
SBC

quote, "Natural man ~ Becomes an ALIVE & LIVING individual
When God gives a man A LIVING SOUL, via His BREATH."

Is that how you interpret Genesis 2:7? Is there such a thing as a dead soul before that?

(Edit: I have noticed that the simple word, "life", substitutes very well for the word "soul" in the NT and that it is thus clearly ended by death unless God chooses to resurrect one to life.)

Also you said, "Can do nothing of his own, works, ideas, power, etc. to please God.'

That is exactly what he says. You seem to believe similar to how I do about how this works and so your saying that confuses me.

 

[SBC]

He confused me a bit also by saying, "So for this reason all that you have decided that are not God chosen will be tortured forever and ever and ever and ever WITH NO MERCY."

What he means is that if you do not accept his view of universal salvation you are calling God cruel. And that proves he does not really understand the balance of love, mercy, and justice of God.

I am not responsible for what he thinks up or says. So perhaps he can reveal where his own thoughts and words and teaching comes from.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Buzz_B]

I am not responsible for what he thinks up or says. So perhaps he can reveal where his own thoughts and words and teaching comes from.

God Bless,
SBC

I agree. I have been deliberately poking him a little to get more out of him in that regard. He told me a few pages back that he had gotten out of the Babylonian religious system which the common church does not realize it is and that set me to wondering.

But then I reckon I am just as confusing to most. Many think I am a Jehovah's Witness or some group like them but I am not. I am what you could call a sojourner in a land not my own when it comes to the physical religious realm.

But to understand me I do not mind saying that if Jehovah's Witnesses would change but a few things they would be my likely choice. As it is they would no doubt not accept me. For I call a duck a duck when I see a duck and they do not tolerate that.

I agree with his identification of Babylon the Great. The division of Israel into two parts was pictorial of the split we saw occur in the church of the flesh. And both parts are just as removed from God's truth as both parts of that Israel came to be. And that proves our flight out of her is predominantly spiritual through correcting what we believe.

If we look even closer we see that Israel became the two-tribe kingdom and the ten-tribe kingdom. Two corresponding parts to the Catholic church; Roman and Eastern Orthodox. And then the Protestant breakaway which has many churches.

The number ten can be easily shown in the Scriptures to represent earthly completeness as to number and so that ten-tribe kingdom well picture the may Protestant churches.

 

[ClementofA]

He confused me a bit also by saying, "So for this reason all that you have decided that are not God chosen will be tortured forever and ever and ever and ever WITH NO MERCY."

What he means is that if you do not accept his view of universal salvation you are calling God cruel. And that proves he does not really understand the balance of love, mercy, and justice of God.

I think he understands that Love wins. That is, the love of God who is Love Omnipotent. Not the failing weak fickle temporary love of mere mortal sinners.

http://lovewins.us/

"If God doesn't save all, is it because He can't or doesn't want to?"
"I don't believe in the good news of endless torments"
"...it doesn't say what most evangelizers of hopelessness want it to say in that regard either."
"It is false, he maintained, to translate that phrase as "everlasting punishment," introducing into the New Testament the concept found in the Islamic Quran that God is going to torture the wicked forever."
"...non-Christians are punished forever for not recieving grace, which doesn't seem very graceful to me."

 

[Buzz_B]

I think he understands that Love wins. That is, the love of God who is Love Omnipotent. Not the failing weak fickle temporary love of mere mortal sinners.

http://lovewins.us/

"If God doesn't save all, is it because He can't or doesn't want to?"
"I don't believe in the good news of endless torments"
"...it doesn't say what most evangelizers of hopelessness want it to say in that regard either."
"It is false, he maintained, to translate that phrase as "everlasting punishment," introducing into the New Testament the concept found in the Islamic Quran that God is going to torture the wicked forever."
"...non-Christians are punished forever for not recieving grace, which doesn't seem very graceful to me."

I agree that he understands it as you do. But I do not agree with your understanding of it.

Yes, love never fails. But wickedness is not love and does fail. It fails so badly that those who are so completely dead-set against converting to God's love vanish like smoke. Not because God's love failed, but because their stubborn refusal caused them to reap what they sowed.

You have this unrealistic Idea that unwittingly blames God for their choice to fail. And yet God saw to it in his written word that you were told time and time again, "the end of such things is death." But you then proceed to create your own fairytale concerning even that by creating a multitude of ages the Bible speaks nothing of and essentially calling God a liar.

You even found a way to fairytale the lake of fire away from being the symbol of everlasting destruction of the life of persons, as it really is.

To pull this off you trust in a doctrine that is not even named in the Bible, Omniscience, which you see in an absolute sense. And I would agree that God foresees much but the Scriptures clearly shows us that he has to search and observe before seeing certain things and that he has many ways to do that so that we cannot hide anything from him forever. I have told you or sores-like-an- eagle before to start a thread on Omniscience and I will be happy to prove your Absolute Omniscience view is wrong. And that you would think such would mean God was either not God or was less God if your Absolute Omniscience view is not true, as some have retorted to me, is deplorable, for who are you or anyone to challenge him even if his Omniscience is not so absolute as that false doctrine portrays. He yet is so much greater than all that such a suggestion is not just laughable but inexcusable.

 

[SBC]

quote, "Natural man ~ Becomes an ALIVE & LIVING individual
When God gives a man A LIVING SOUL, via His BREATH."

Is that how you interpret Genesis 2:7?

That is my understanding.

Is there such a thing as a dead soul before that?

No.

God IS Life.
God makes things, body's, souls, vessels, spirits, etc...
And IMPARTS Life from Him, into those things, that those things become living.

Nothing is living, until it has Life from God IN IT.
Nothing can Die, until it has first had Life.
That which dies, dies, because Life has departed out of the thing.

(Edit: I have noticed that the simple word, "life", substitutes very well for the word "soul" in the NT and that it is thus clearly ended by death unless God chooses to resurrect one to life.)

I find more so, Man and Soul, used interchangeably in Scripture, especially OT, and somewhat carried forward by the Jews to the NT.

Yet I believe MAN and SOUL are distinctly different.

Man is from Dust.
Soul is made by God, but unknown from what.

Man is appointed to die.
Soul is never taught appointed to death.

Mans LIFE is his blood.
Soul LIFE is Gods Breath.

Mans Life (blood), must die.
Soul can live forever with Gods Life in it.

All souls are Gods, but identified with the mans name, and are in the man.

Souls can and do depart out of man (body.)
Souls can and do return to a man (body).

A soul in a body, the body is alive.
A soul out of a body the body is dead.
A dead body is when the blood ceases to function the heart.

Living Souls departed out a dead body, go to;
Heaven with God,
Or
Hell without God.

Dead bodies return to dust of the ground.

Gods Life, or life He imparts into anything, is never "life that can be destroyed".
The thing Gods life is IN, CAN be destroyed, or become dead....but Gods Life will depart OUT OF the destroyed or dead thing.

I see the body, as a vessel,
Also the soul as a vessel,
Also the heart as a vessel,
Simply meaning, a vessel, anything God has made, that He imparts life into the thing/vessel.

Meaning the VESSEL, body, soul, heart, can all become destroyed.

It is the SOUL, that becomes SAVED, to keep its forever LIFE from God and forever to be with God.

Unsaved souls, shall be departed life, which is God and will return to God.
And the soul destroyed.

God requires the LIFE (Blood) of every man.
Saved men, will have their body raised and glorified.
Unsaved men, will have Life departed from it (blood/ living soul), and the body will be destroyed.

Also you said, "Can do nothing of his own, works, ideas, power, etc. to please God.'

That is exactly what he says. You seem to believe similar to how I do about how this works and so your saying that confuses me.

Why would, what Scripture says, what you think in agreement, and the same what I think in agreement.....be confusing to you?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

I agree. I have been deliberately poking him a little to get more out of him in that regard. He told me a few pages back that he had gotten out of the Babylonian religious system which the common church does not realize it is and that set me to wondering.

But then I reckon I am just as confusing to most. Many think I am a Jehovah's Witness or some group like them but I am not. I am what you could call a sojourner in a land not my own when it comes to the physical religious realm.

But to understand me I do not mind saying that if Jehovah's Witnesses would change but a few things they would be my likely choice. As it is they would no doubt not accept me. For I call a duck a duck when I see a duck and they do not tolerate that.

I agree with his identification of Babylon the Great. The division of Israel into two parts was pictorial of the split we saw occur in the church of the flesh. And both parts are just as removed from God's truth as both parts of that Israel came to be. And that proves our flight out of her is predominantly spiritual through correcting what we believe.

If we look even closer we see that Israel became the two-tribe kingdom and the ten-tribe kingdom. Two corresponding parts to the Catholic church; Roman and Eastern Orthodox. And then the Protestant breakaway which has many churches.

The number ten can be easily shown in the Scriptures to represent earthly completeness as to number and so that ten-tribe kingdom well picture the may Protestant churches.

Concerning ISRAEL (THE NATION), does not encompass jurdistionally but a smidgen of what God promised Abraham.

And that will NEVER be settled BY MEN.
Because MEN can NOT solve a Spiritual Dispute Among men, diplomatically, via war, or otherwise.

Men try and try to solve Spiritual issues with Worldly Solutions, and it a FAIL.

That LAND issue will only be solved BY GOD.

The PEOPLE, of "ISRAEL" (Jacob), is what God
Is looking to SAVE. SAVE them ALL.
ALL who come to the Lord in heart felt belief, shall be saved, and they ARE "ALL" "OF" ISRAEL..."ALL" "OF" Jacob, Issac, Abraham.
Jews and Gentiles, WHO have or will during their life (blood) time, come to Believe in their heart, Jesus is the Word of God/ Son of God.
Gentiles becoming OF ISRAEL, OF Jacob, by Promise, given Abraham.

God Bless,
SBC