All have sinned?

[Tangible]

There is no scripture that says that - NONE. You've made it up.

I'll be back with those verses when I have the time to look them all up, and there are many, though you probably won't accept even that.

Something tells me that you are hanging onto a thread of hope that some day, if you work hard enough, you have a chance of achieving that state of sinless perfection. I hate to burst your bubble, but that very mindset is inherently sinful. It is a self-defeating proposition. Righteousness comes from only one place, and that is outside of yourself and your capabilities.

Infants cannot sin. The mentally infirm cannot sin. People who are asleep cannot sin.

Sorry, for a second there I thought you were a Baptist.

Sin is simply acting on the sinful nature that consumes our flesh and leads to death. We are conceived in sin, and it's all downhill from there.

We are not condemned for our sins, so much as for our sinfulness.

Only by rescuing us from the consequences of our sinfulness by placing us into Christ does God give us the remedy for our sinful state. Only by continually pouring out upon us his forgiveness and imputing to us the alien righteousness of Christ can we be considered righteous at all.

 

[Tangible]

OK, I started looking up all the verses that speak about man's totally sinful condition and honestly there's just too many to list here, and honestly I have better things to do with my time.

I suggest you check out the link below for a good presentation of the biblical basis for total depravity.

Total Depravity Verse List « Travis Carden .com

 

[narnia59]

I'll be back with those verses when I have the time to look them all up, and there are many, though you probably won't accept even that.

Something tells me that you are hanging onto a thread of hope that some day, if you work hard enough, you have a chance of achieving that state of sinless perfection. I hate to burst your bubble, but that very mindset is inherently sinful. It is a self-defeating proposition. Righteousness comes from only one place, and that is outside of yourself and your capabilities.

Sorry, for a second there I thought you were a Baptist.

Sin is simply acting on the sinful nature that consumes our flesh and leads to death. We are conceived in sin, and it's all downhill from there.

We are not condemned for our sins, so much as for our sinfulness.

Only by rescuing us from the consequences of our sinfulness by placing us into Christ does God give us the remedy for our sinful state. Only by continually pouring out upon us his forgiveness and imputing to us the alien righteousness of Christ can we be considered righteous at all.

So much for becoming spirits of righteous men made perfect? So much for Paul's prayer for the Thessalonians that God would sanctify them wholly? So much for Jesus telling us that we must be perfect as our heavenly father is perfect? So much for actually being transformed into the likeness of Christ? So muich for Christ purifying for himself a people? So much for the sacrifice of Christ being able to make perfect those who draw near? So much for striving for the holiness without which we will not see God?

A cup must first be cleansed on the inside before the outside can be cleansed. Jesus said that, but he wasn't talking about dishes. He was talking about us.

The hope for true perfection (not merely a 'covering') is not a 'thread' -- it is the promise to those who allow the Holy Spirit to sanctify them.

 

[chilehed]

Something tells me that you are hanging onto a thread of hope that some day, if you work hard enough, you have a chance of achieving that state of sinless perfection. I hate to burst your bubble, but that very mindset is inherently sinful.

It's not my bubble, because whatever you think is telling you that it has nothing to do with me. This looks like another case of you thinking something up and heving the idea that it's true. And the thread isn't about me.

Sin is simply acting on the sinful nature that consumes our flesh and leads to death...

Infacts and the mentally infirm don't have the capacity do that.

But this really is very far afield of the topic of the thread. The thread is about the fact that Romans 3:23 doesn't support the idea that Mary sinned, and so far you haven't provided any coherent rebuttal to the OP.

 

[chilehed]

OK, I started looking up all the verses that speak about man's totally sinful condition and honestly there's just too many to list here, and honestly I have better things to do with my time.

I suggest you check out the link below for a good presentation of the biblical basis for total depravity.

Total Depravity Verse List « Travis Carden .com

This thread isn't about total depravity, it's about the fact that Romans 3:23 can't reasonably be used as a proof that Mary sinned. Please stay on topic.

 

[MamaZ]

Mary sinned or she would not need a savior.

 

[narnia59]

Mary sinned or she would not need a savior.

Is the concept that one can be saved from sin before they sin so difficult to grasp?

 

[chilehed]

Mary sinned or she would not need a savior.

Where do you find that in the bible?

 

[Tangible]

This thread isn't about total depravity, it's about the fact that Romans 3:23 can't reasonably be used as a proof that Mary sinned. Please stay on topic.

You asked me for these scriptures.

Anyway. Saying that any human except Jesus is without sin is contrary to the whole message of scripture. To make such an assertion would place the onus on you to prove your position from scripture, which you haven't done.

Your argument is really little more than "this scripture doesn't mean what it says, and I dare you to prove me wrong."

Your position even contradicts your own church's position on original sin as I understand it. Why baptize infants if they do not need to be saved from inherited sinfulness?

You guys need to set up a dialog with Holiness Pentecostals. I'm sure you'd get along famously.

As for me, I'm frankly tired of this silly argument.

/unsubscribes

 

[chilehed]

You asked me for these scriptures.

I did not. You offered them to discuss total depravity, which is not the topic of this thread. One of the passages you offered was Romans 3:23, but since Romans 3:23 is the topic of the thread that was no contribution.

Saying that any human except Jesus is without sin is contrary to the whole message of scripture.

And as proof of that you point to Romans 3:23, which is the topic of the thread and which doesn't actually support your position.

Your argument is really little more than "this scripture doesn't mean what it says, and I dare you to prove me wrong."

My argument is "Scripture means exactly what it says, so don't try to make it mean something that it doesn't".

Your position even contradicts your own church's position on original sin as I understand it.

That merely demosntrates that you don't understand Catholic doctrine.

As for me, I'm frankly tired of this silly argument.

It's only silly because you're making silly comments that have nothing to do with the topic.

 

[MamaZ]

Is the concept that one can be saved from sin before they sin so difficult to grasp?

how can one be saved before they sin since sin dwells in the flesh of every human being?

 

[MamaZ]

Only Jesus is exempt because He was not born from mans seed but From Gods

 

[MamaZ]

Where do you find that in the bible?

IF Mary never sinned what would she need to be saved from?

 

[narnia59]

how can one be saved before they sin since sin dwells in the flesh of every human being?

Mamaz, it's called a miracle, and God often does them when it suits His purpose.

 

[narnia59]

IF Mary never sinned what would she need to be saved from?

Falling into sin. This is not possible without the grace of Christ, her Savior.

 

[MamaZ]

Mamaz, it's called a miracle, and God often does them when it suits His purpose.

Yet we read no such miracle in the scriptures.

 

[MamaZ]

Falling into sin. This is not possible without the grace of Christ, her Savior.

So in order for one to fall into sin takes what>?

 

[narnia59]

Yet we read no such miracle in the scriptures.

And where does Scripture say that all miracles are recorded in Scripture? Or that Scripture is all one needs to have in order to know everything one needs to know? It does not. It says the opposite.

We do discover in Scripture that taking up residence and dwellling in a vessel of sin is contrary to the nature of God. We also discover that Jesus fulfilled every command of His father perfectly.

 

[narnia59]

So in order for one to fall into sin takes what>?

An unsanctified soul, free will, and temptation.

 

[Frogster]

An unsanctified soul, free will, and temptation.

If mary was not born into the sinful Adamic creation, what was she born in?

last i checked, there are 2 adams.
Please name the creation.

No endless theological mumbo jumbo, name the creation.