AI understands the Sabbath and Col 2:16

[Mercy Shown]

Thankfully, God is the one to determine this, not anyone else.

Yes, and that is why we can stop implying that those who understand things differently than we do are promoting doing away with God's Commandments.

The way you are phasing it as if you are looking down at others who want to obey God. God cannot be mocked. Gal6:7 lets not forget Whose commandments and Testimony this is Exo31:18 the God of the Universe.

This is our fundament difference, you keep indicating that the righteousness of Christ is not going to keep the commandments the way Christ did when He lived in our sinful world as our example to follow. 1 John2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15. Basically this is teaching a double standard and a dichotomy between Christ and His Laws. Christ kept the same laws we are to keep John15:10 1John2:6

We do not need to do what feels write because we have Scripture which plainly tells us how to keep the Sabbath Exo 20:8-11 Isa 58:13 Lev23:3 no deed to deviate from it, with plenty of examples for Jesus and His apostles.

Read the OP as this is not about the weekly Sabbath, but the sabbaths connected to annual feast days and sin offerings which was fulfilled in Christ Heb10:1-10 1 Cor5:7

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes, and that is why we can stop implying that those who understand things differently than we do are promoting doing away with God's Commandments.

I can only go by what Scripture says. God said He would not alter His covenant Psa89:34 so if someone is not teaching what God said and wrote plainly, we should concerned and prayerfully study and make sure our teachings are in harmony with God’s promises. I believe God spelled out His commandments and Testimony plainly by design. All we need to do is have faith, believe and do and as Jesus said, teach others. Mat5:19

I think we are at an impasse and it will have to get sorted out at His soon return.

 

[Hentenza]

(staff edit)
Brother, I am going to have to continue explaining Heb. 4. Your commentary only covers what suits your belief and in your own words rather that how the verses are actually written. So in my previous post I established the audience and context which clearly shows that the writer of Hebrews is referring to those with faith.

“For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; and again in this passage, “They certainly shall not enter My rest.””
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

This quote from Genesis 2:2 highlights that God's rest signifies the completion of His creative work. The Sabbath day rest was established as a type or shadow of this greater spiritual rest.

However, verse 5 connects the Old Testament example of the Israelites who did not enter the Promised Land with the future promise of God's rest. The condition for entering this rest is not a physical journey, but "faith in His promises, through His Son".
The inability to enter is due to a lack of faith, not a lack of the promise itself.

“Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who previously had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Two subsets of people are listed here, those who have not entered yet which are non believers and those who had the good news preached to them but rejected it, Jews.

“He again sets a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before, “Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.””
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭7‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

So here, instead of the previous seventh Day, God sets a new day and that is “today”. σήμερον translates as “this day”. This is a quote from Ps. 95:7-8 where David was pleading for Israel to have faith and not harden their hearts. So it is no longer about A day, one day a week, but about any day of the week. We should have faith every day and worship Him every day.

“For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭8‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

If Joshua’s rest would have been enough refers to going into the promised land. Joshua’s rest was not enough so then God himself would not have spoken by David of a better and heavenly rest promised to believers in the gospel. Remember that Joshua already had the Ten Commandments so the rest, even of the sabbath, was not enough.

“Consequently, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭9‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Since this is the rest that the Jews could not enter by faith, and since in the previous verse another day was chosen, and since verse 7 also confirms that another day was chosen, today, then this refers to the OT sabbath as a shadow of what is now Jesus’s rest. Also those that enter Jesus rest, by faith, has also rested of their works since works are the result of faith not the condition for faith. Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath and as such is our rest.

So I still need you to post a post crucifixion verse that requires the Christian to keep the 4th commandment.

 

[Hentenza]

(staff edit)
See my post 132. The mistranslation of the quote from Ps. 95:11 by the KJV writers is of no consequence because it quotes the Psalmist so all one has to do is read the Psalm for the proper translation. My argument has been based on the NASB translation not the KJV. My argument remains.

The 4th commandment is the only commandment not summarized in Jesus two love commandments while all other 8 commandments are explicitly mentioned. Therefore, the 4th commandment is not required of the Christian. No one should judge others for not keeping it but you are welcomed to without judgement.



.

 

[Leaf473]

Finally, while it’s wonderful to honor God faithfully, we must be careful about implying that our personal way of observing the Sabbath is the definitive way God requires.

Yes. There are many ways to interpret the scriptures. Let each person be convinced in their own conscience before God.

 

[Studyman]

Yes. There are many ways to interpret the scriptures. Let each person be convinced in their own conscience before God.

The Jesus "of the Bible" said to Live By every Word of God. So at the very least, a man should consider every Word. While Paul says "Let each man be convinced in his own heart", the Bible also says the heart of man is evil above all thing. And Jesus said to "take heed" we are not deceived by the "many" who come in His Name. And He told those whose sins HE forgave, "now go and Sin no more".

So clearly a person should consider all these Scriptures when interpreting God's message to us though them. The philosophy that there isn't a correct interpretation, or that men are free to create their own religion based on their own private interpretation is not all all what the Bible teaches. Men should adopt Jesus' teaching, as HE adopted His Fathers. In this way there is unity.

 

[Leaf473]

The Jesus "of the Bible" said to Live By every Word of God. So at the very least, a man should consider every Word. While Paul says "Let each man be convinced in his own heart", the Bible also says the heart of man is evil above all thing. And Jesus said to "take heed" we are not deceived by the "many" who come in His Name. And He told those whose sins HE forgave, "now go and Sin no more".

So clearly a person should consider all these Scriptures when interpreting God's message to us though them. The philosophy that there isn't a correct interpretation, or that men are free to create their own religion based on their own private interpretation is not all all what the Bible teaches. Men should adopt Jesus' teaching, as HE adopted His Fathers. In this way there is unity.

There is definitely a correct interpretation that can be clearly seen in some cases. But in other cases, it can depend on context, which is subjective

Does this mean stay in your place only regarding gathering food, or for all endeavors?

On the seventh day, everyone must stay where he is; no one may leave his place Exodus 16

 

[Studyman]

There is definitely a correct interpretation that can be clearly seen in some cases. But in other cases, it can depend on context, which is subjective

Does this mean stay in your place only regarding gathering food, or for all endeavors?

On the seventh day, everyone must stay where he is; no one may leave his place Exodus 16

This is a perfect example of the evils of taking one verse from the Bible, separating it from the rest of the bible, then creating doctrines and philosophies designed to support preconceived ideas. It's simply impossible to understand God's Teaching by engaging in such a practice. And yet, this is what the "other voice" in the garden God placed Eve in, "who profess to know God", did to deceive Eve. And it is how the Pharisees deceived others, and the corrupt priests "led Israel astray" in Jer. 50. And Jesus said for me to "Take Heed" of the same "manby" who come in Christ's Name to deceive, in my time.

Where is the "place" of a truly Faithful man who has "Yielded themselves" to God regarding His Commandments? Where was John the Baptist on God's Holy Sabbaths? Where was Jeremiah, Daniel, Shadrack, on God's Holy Sabbaths?

Are we not the Temple of God, "if so be the Spirit of God dwells within us"? Is it not written by Inspiration of God, "Be ye Holy for I am Holy"?

As long as men cherry pick scriptures for the purpose of justifying their own religious traditions, philosophies, judgments and righteousness, instead of "Seeking the Righteousness of God" for the purpose of Living By Every Word of God, as Jesus instructs, they will never "be in their place", in my understanding.

 

[Leaf473]

This is a perfect example of the evils of taking one verse from the Bible, separating it from the rest of the bible, then creating doctrines and philosophies designed to support preconceived ideas. It's simply impossible to understand God's Teaching by engaging in such a practice. And yet, this is what the "other voice" in the garden God placed Eve in, "who profess to know God", did to deceive Eve. And it is how the Pharisees deceived others, and the corrupt priests "led Israel astray" in Jer. 50. And Jesus said for me to "Take Heed" of the same "manby" who come in Christ's Name to deceive, in my time.

Where is the "place" of a truly Faithful man who has "Yielded themselves" to God regarding His Commandments? Where was John the Baptist on God's Holy Sabbaths? Where was Jeremiah, Daniel, Shadrack, on God's Holy Sabbaths?

Are we not the Temple of God, "if so be the Spirit of God dwells within us"? Is it not written by Inspiration of God, "Be ye Holy for I am Holy"?

As long as men cherry pick scriptures for the purpose of justifying their own religious traditions, philosophies, judgments and righteousness, instead of "Seeking the Righteousness of God" for the purpose of Living By Every Word of God, as Jesus instructs, they will never "be in their place", in my understanding.

Sounds like physical travel is okay, because you are always spiritually in your place, if you're properly following the scriptures.

Do you mean that any amount of physical travel is allowable? Is it okay to cause someone else to work to enable you to travel, such as riding a bus? Or put someone else at risk for working, such as driving and possibly needing a tow truck?

 

[Leaf473]

In keeping with the thread topic, I asked duckassist "what does the Bible say about traveling on the Sabbath?"

The Bible indicates that traveling on the Sabbath is generally discouraged, as it is a day of rest. Specifically, Jewish tradition allowed a person to travel only a limited distance, known as a "Sabbath day's journey," which is about 2,000 cubits (approximately 0.6 miles) from one's home without violating the Sabbath laws.

what does the Bible say about traveling on the Sabbath? at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

 

[Studyman]

In keeping with the thread topic, I asked duckassist "what does the Bible say about traveling on the Sabbath?"

The Bible indicates that traveling on the Sabbath is generally discouraged, as it is a day of rest. Specifically, Jewish tradition allowed a person to travel only a limited distance, known as a "Sabbath day's journey," which is about 2,000 cubits (approximately 0.6 miles) from one's home without violating the Sabbath laws.

what does the Bible say about traveling on the Sabbath? at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

I would caution men not to place their trust in machines created by a world that is at Enmity with God. But that's just me.

 

[Leaf473]

I would caution men not to place their trust in machines created by a world that is at Enmity with God. But that's just me.

I just wanted to keep the thread topic in mind

 

[Hentenza]

(staff edit)
Brother you say that but then you do not address my post. The sabbath is not required of the Christian. It is simply not part of the new covenant. All other 9 commandments are summarized in Jesus two love commandments. Maybe you could post a post resurrection verse that requires the Christian to keep the 4th commandment.

 

[guevaraj]

Brother you say that but then you do not address my post.

Brother, I have pointed out your error in using the word "rest" figuratively, referring to Jesus as Lord or to the Promised Land, when a literal interpretation of "rest" as the Sabbath is defensible. To demonstrate your error, I asked ChatGPT: "When both are possible, which is correct: a literal or figurative interpretation?"

ChatGPT said:​

Good question — and the answer depends on context and intent.
Here’s how to think about it:

• If a literal interpretation makes sense and fits the context, that’s usually the correct one.
  • Example: “He ran to the store.” → literally means he physically ran.
• If a literal reading seems absurd, impossible, or out of place, a figurative interpretation is probably intended.
  • Example: “He ran out of time.” → not literal; you can’t physically run out of time.

Writers, speakers, and interpreters often follow this principle:

“Take words literally unless there is a compelling reason not to.”

So, literal first, figurative if necessary — unless the context (like poetry, metaphorical writing, or symbolic speech) clearly signals otherwise.
Would you like me to explain how this applies in a specific field — for example, literature, law, or theology?

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Hentenza]

Brother, I have pointed out your error in using the word "rest" figuratively, referring to Jesus as Lord or to the Promised Land, when a literal interpretation of "rest" as the Sabbath is defensible.

Brother, you misunderstand my argument. Never have I used “rest” figuratively. The rest at the bottom of chapter 3 is as real as the rest in chapter 4 but one refers to the Jews and the other to Christians and Jesus rest. I have no error. You are interpreting chapter 4 through the lense of your bias and that leads to error.

 

[Mercy Shown]

The Jesus "of the Bible" said to Live By every Word of God. So at the very least, a man should consider every Word. While Paul says "Let each man be convinced in his own heart", the Bible also says the heart of man is evil above all thing. And Jesus said to "take heed" we are not deceived by the "many" who come in His Name. And He told those whose sins HE forgave, "now go and Sin no more".

So clearly a person should consider all these Scriptures when interpreting God's message to us though them. The philosophy that there isn't a correct interpretation, or that men are free to create their own religion based on their own private interpretation is not all all what the Bible teaches. Men should adopt Jesus' teaching, as HE adopted His Fathers. In this way there is unity.

I appreciate your zeal for God’s Word and the importance you place on taking Scripture seriously. You’re absolutely right that Jesus calls us to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. At the same time, Scripture also shows that even those who diligently studied the Law—like the Pharisees—often missed the heart of what God was saying because they approached it without humility or dependence on the Spirit (John 5:39-40).

Paul reminds us that “the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life” (2 Cor. 3:6). So while study is vital, true understanding comes when the Holy Spirit illuminates the Word in our hearts (1 Cor. 2:10-14). None of us have perfect understanding; we “know in part” (1 Cor. 13:9). That’s why Christians are called to speak the truth in love and bear with one another in humility (Eph. 4:2–3), seeking unity not by claiming superior insight, but by submitting together to Christ as our Teacher (Matt. 23:10).

So I fully agree that we should take heed not to be deceived, but I also believe that spiritual pride can deceive just as easily as spiritual neglect. The safest place for any of us is at Jesus’ feet, asking Him to open our eyes to His Word and to give us the grace to walk it out in love.

 

[linux.poet]

MOD HAT ON​

This thread has had a cleanup to remove some repetitive off-topic spam.​

Hopefully this thread can breathe a little easier now.​

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Studyman]

I appreciate your zeal for God’s Word and the importance you place on taking Scripture seriously. You’re absolutely right that Jesus calls us to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. At the same time, Scripture also shows that even those who diligently studied the Law—like the Pharisees—often missed the heart of what God was saying because they approached it without humility or dependence on the Spirit (John 5:39-40).

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I agree in part with this statement, that men, theologians for centuries have studied scriptures but have missed the point. But it seems also prudent to point out that other men have studied the Bible and have not missed the point God was making.

According to my understanding of Scriptures, it was "Belief" that determined the outcome. Belief leads to obedience, obedience leads to God's Spirit. God's Spirit leads to understanding. Abraham believed God, this lead to obedience, which lead to God's Spirit which lead to God's Wisdom and understanding.

In Luke 1, Zacharias is also a perfect example of this undeniable Biblical Truth. This man who humbled himself, or as Paul calls it, "Yielded himself" to God in obedience, which lead him to the Spirit of God which lead him to understanding. And look at the outcome. He knew and believed in the Messiah before HE was even born.

At the same time, the ,mainstream religion of his time, had the same Scriptures, the Same Commandments, the same capabilities as Zacharias had, but they didn't believe. Which lead to disobedience, which lead to the withholding of God's Spirit, which lead to NO Understanding. And look at the outcome. The Messiah raised healed the crippled and even Lepers right in front of them, and they didn't know it was their Own Prophesied Messiah.

The Law and Prophets and most certainly Jesus, along with Paul and all the apostles, understood the importance of "believing", without which there is no obedience, without which there is no Holy Spirit, without which there is no understanding. Peter most certainly understood this.

Acts 5: 29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. 31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given "to them" that obey him.

This is why it is so important to "Believe" God, which leads to obedience, which leads to the Holy Spirit, which leads to understanding, which leads to a contrite and repentant heart, which lead to salvation.

Paul reminds us that “the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life” (2 Cor. 3:6). So while study is vital, true understanding comes when the Holy Spirit illuminates the Word in our hearts (1 Cor. 2:10-14).

It is truly important to study and "understand" what Paul means when he says, "The Letter Kills". What "letter" is it that kills? Does the Letter, "Thou shall Love the Lord thy God with all thy might", KILL us?

Or is it the Letter, "The soul that sins shall die".

2 Cor. 3: 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Paul murdered innocent servants of God and persecuted faithful members of God's Church. He wasn't made a "servant of God's Righteousness" by the Letter. The Letter killed him because he transgressed God's commandments.

There is no LAW or "letter" that Paul could do or obey that could take this death away from him.

Rom. 8: 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

So yes, Study is vital. But if I'm a thief learning about God, and I find God's Words, "thou shall not steal and the soul that steals shall die". Yet I continue stealing and continue studying, this is proof of "unbelief", which leads to continued disobedience, which leads to the withholding of the Holy Spirit, which leads to no understanding, which leads to deception which leads to destruction.

Paul was made a minister of the prophesied New Priesthood Covenant, because, as he teaches, he "repented and turn to God, and brought forth works meet for repentance." And this because he believed God, like Abraham.

None of us have perfect understanding; we “know in part” (1 Cor. 13:9). That’s why Christians are called to speak the truth in love and bear with one another in humility (Eph. 4:2–3), seeking unity not by claiming superior insight, but by submitting together to Christ as our Teacher (Matt. 23:10).

Submitting to Christ would include being "doers" of His Sayings, not hearers only. It would also include "taking heed" of those HE taught men to "take heed of".

The idea, in my understanding, is to be united with Him and His Father, who are of the same mind. Not to be united with the world, or this world's religions HE warns about.

So I fully agree that we should take heed not to be deceived, but I also believe that spiritual pride can deceive just as easily as spiritual neglect. The safest place for any of us is at Jesus’ feet, asking Him to open our eyes to His Word and to give us the grace to walk it out in love.

Well, I'm sure what this means, as Jesus is in heaven with his Father advocating between God and me. But HE left me His Words and HE told me, "If you would enter into life, keep the Commandments". When asked Which ones, He alluded to the 10 Commandments and Leviticus 19.

He didn't list them all, or even the 1st and Greatest Commandment, but it seems simple enough to understand whose Laws and Judgments HE was instructing men to Live by, as this has been the message from God since the beginning.

And I believe Him.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I agree in part with this statement, that men, theologians for centuries have studied scriptures but have missed the point. But it seems also prudent to point out that other men have studied the Bible and have not missed the point God was making.

According to my understanding of Scriptures, it was "Belief" that determined the outcome. Belief leads to obedience, obedience leads to God's Spirit. God's Spirit leads to understanding. Abraham believed God, this lead to obedience, which lead to God's Spirit which lead to God's Wisdom and understanding.

In Luke 1, Zacharias is also a perfect example of this undeniable Biblical Truth. This man who humbled himself, or as Paul calls it, "Yielded himself" to God in obedience, which lead him to the Spirit of God which lead him to understanding. And look at the outcome. He knew and believed in the Messiah before HE was even born.

At the same time, the ,mainstream religion of his time, had the same Scriptures, the Same Commandments, the same capabilities as Zacharias had, but they didn't believe. Which lead to disobedience, which lead to the withholding of God's Spirit, which lead to NO Understanding. And look at the outcome. The Messiah raised healed the crippled and even Lepers right in front of them, and they didn't know it was their Own Prophesied Messiah.

The Law and Prophets and most certainly Jesus, along with Paul and all the apostles, understood the importance of "believing", without which there is no obedience, without which there is no Holy Spirit, without which there is no understanding. Peter most certainly understood this.

Acts 5: 29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. 31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given "to them" that obey him.

This is why it is so important to "Believe" God, which leads to obedience, which leads to the Holy Spirit, which leads to understanding, which leads to a contrite and repentant heart, which lead to salvation.




It is truly important to study and "understand" what Paul means when he says, "The Letter Kills". What "letter" is it that kills? Does the Letter, "Thou shall Love the Lord thy God with all thy might", KILL us?

Or is it the Letter, "The soul that sins shall die".

2 Cor. 3: 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Paul murdered innocent servants of God and persecuted faithful members of God's Church. He wasn't made a "servant of God's Righteousness" by the Letter. The Letter killed him because he transgressed God's commandments.

There is no LAW or "letter" that Paul could do or obey that could take this death away from him.

Rom. 8: 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

So yes, Study is vital. But if I'm a thief learning about God, and I find God's Words, "thou shall not steal and the soul that steals shall die". Yet I continue stealing and continue studying, this is proof of "unbelief", which leads to continued disobedience, which leads to the withholding of the Holy Spirit, which leads to no understanding, which leads to deception which leads to destruction.

Paul was made a minister of the prophesied New Priesthood Covenant, because, as he teaches, he "repented and turn to God, and brought forth works meet for repentance." And this because he believed God, like Abraham.




Submitting to Christ would include being "doers" of His Sayings, not hearers only. It would also include "taking heed" of those HE taught men to "take heed of".

The idea, in my understanding, is to be united with Him and His Father, who are of the same mind. Not to be united with the world, or this world's religions HE warns about.



Well, I'm sure what this means, as Jesus is in heaven with his Father advocating between God and me. But HE left me His Words and HE told me, "If you would enter into life, keep the Commandments". When asked Which ones, He alluded to the 10 Commandments and Leviticus 19.

He didn't list them all, or even the 1st and Greatest Commandment, but it seems simple enough to understand whose Laws and Judgments HE was instructing men to Live by, as this has been the message from God since the beginning.

And I believe Him.

Yes, these are some good points. I believe that we should always obey God, even in our discourse with others with whom we may disagree. I have failed in this with you, and I do apologize for that. If I believe the bible, it tells me to always maintain the spirit of Christ. "A soft answer turns away wrath."

Being "right" is less important than being in Christ and living as a child of God who has redeemed and adopted us as his own. And there is no excuse for me denigrating a fellow Christian. We may disagree on points of doctrine, but debate should be conducted in mutual love and respect. That is what I will strive to do.

 

[Studyman]

Yes, these are some good points. I believe that we should always obey God, even in our discourse with others with whom we may disagree. I have failed in this with you, and I do apologize for that. If I believe the bible, it tells me to always maintain the spirit of Christ. "A soft answer turns away wrath."

Being "right" is less important than being in Christ and living as a child of God who has redeemed and adopted us as his own. And there is no excuse for me denigrating a fellow Christian. We may disagree on points of doctrine, but debate should be conducted in mutual love and respect. That is what I will strive to do.

It is good to discuss what is actually written in Scripture, and to take heed of the religious traditions, philosophies and judgments promoted by the religions of the world God placed us in.

It's hard not to get fired up sometimes. Good to recognize the capacity in us to do so