After Trump Blasts N.F.L., Players Kneel and Lock Arms in Solidarity

[ArmenianJohn]

If they sit in the stands, pay for the ticket and don't play
in the game, more power to them. I don't even care if
they do it on the sidelines, as long as they are must sit
out that game and don't get paid for it.

Unsportsman-like conduct; one game ban.

I think that would dry up the 'protest' very quickly.

That's unconstitutional and anti-Christ.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

As I said before, I do not believe the president or an employer should dictate what we are to think or believe about an object (such as the flag) or a song (such as the National Anthem.)

I do not believe the president or an employer should dictate how one should physically respond to an object (stand, sit, kneel, bow, whatever.) Think about this. The flag is an object. Let's not make the flag into an idol.

The problem is that it already is an idol for most people, including many who call themselves "Christians".

 

[Anna Scott]

The problem is that it already is an idol for most people, including many who call themselves "Christians".

Thank you ArmenianJohn,
Finally, someone understands what I'm talking about. As a Christian, I believe that no one has the right to dictate how I respond to a flag or any other object or even question my reasons.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Thank you ArmenianJohn,
Finally, someone understands what I'm talking about. As a Christian, I believe that no one has the right to dictate how I respond to a flag or any other object or even question my reasons.

Thank you Anna Scott for helping me confirm to myself that I'm not alone or wrong about this. I think America and the objects that represent America like the flag, anthem, military, etc. are worshiped in this country as a form of worshiping the country. I think Christians (real or fake) get sucked into this mammon/idol worship thinking they are being "patriotic" but when one stops to think about what he or she is doing it becomes clear that a lot of what is done is over the line and becomes worship.

I'm content to love my country and honor it but also to feel free to criticize it and know the whole time that I really answer to God and not ultimately to the country. I wish many others would realize this as you and I have.

 

[Anna Scott]

Thank you Anna Scott for helping me confirm to myself that I'm not alone or wrong about this. I think America and the objects that represent America like the flag, anthem, military, etc. are worshiped in this country as a form of worshiping the country. I think Christians (real or fake) get sucked into this mammon/idol worship thinking they are being "patriotic" but when one stops to think about what he or she is doing it becomes clear that a lot of what is done is over the line and becomes worship.

I'm content to love my country and honor it but also to feel free to criticize it and know the whole time that I really answer to God and not ultimately to the country. I wish many others would realize this as you and I have.

Beautifully, said! I will stand for God. I will bow to Him, and kneel in prayer: The Holy Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He is above all things, including patriotism.

That doesn't mean I don't love my country. I do, but it is a sad day when the president calls someone a Son of a bleep and demands he/they be fired, because he/they do not respond a certain way to the flag and the national anthem. This is actually unpatriotic, violates our freedom, and insults our constitution and our Democracy. Threats to Democracy and freedom can be small and incidious. We need to be mindful of these actions and call them out for what they are. We must also check ourselves as Christians, prayerfully, so that we do not fall into idolatry through thoughts, words, or deeds. I will add that when I do get these things right, it is only by the Grace of God.

 

[pat34lee]

Again, do you consider the protests religious?

Tim Tebow does not pray to protest. He prays
to talk with God. And he doesn't go out of his
way to insult others while praying.

 

[pat34lee]

Thank you Anna Scott for helping me confirm to myself that I'm not alone or wrong about this. I think America and the objects that represent America like the flag, anthem, military, etc. are worshiped in this country as a form of worshiping the country. I think Christians (real or fake) get sucked into this mammon/idol worship thinking they are being "patriotic" but when one stops to think about what he or she is doing it becomes clear that a lot of what is done is over the line and becomes worship.

I'm content to love my country and honor it but also to feel free to criticize it and know the whole time that I really answer to God and not ultimately to the country. I wish many others would realize this as you and I have.

You wish others were wrong, too? Not me.

If you can't imagine the difference between respect
and idolization, then you have a serious problem.
If anything, more people idolize the games of football,
baseball and soccer than they do any country. Then
again, some on the far left see government as God,
parent and protector.

 

[Anna Scott]

Again, do you consider the protests religious?

Tim Tebow does not pray to protest. He prays
to talk with God. And he doesn't go out of his
way to insult others while praying.

I have no idea if Colin Kaepernick prays when he kneels. It doesn't matter if his protest is religious, anyway. Colin Kaepernick kneels in silence. He has just as much right to kneel as Tim Tebow does.

As I said in a previous post:
Basically, you are saying the white athlete, Tim Tebow, can kneel when he's on the clock; but the black athlete, Colin Kaepernick, can only kneel on his own time.

I also said:
We all view the world through the lens of our own experiences in life. However, I think we should at least try to understand how these players feel and what people of color face in America. I don't see their actions as being unpatriotic or disrespectful to our country or the men and women who serve in our military.

The flag and the National Anthem mean different things to different people. Sadly, the way Americans experience our Democracy and our freedoms are not always the same. The ugly truth is this: There is still racism and discrimination in our country.

I do not believe the president or an employer should dictate what we are to think or believe about an object (such as the flag) or a song (such as the National Anthem.)

I do not believe the president or an employer should dictate how one should physically respond to an object (stand, sit, kneel, bow, whatever.) Think about this. The flag is an object. Let's not make the flag into an idol.

Prayer is often a form of protest. We protest against violence, prejudice, injustice, wickedness, all sorts of evil.

 

[Anna Scott]

It doesn't matter if Colin Kaepernick's protest is religious. If the white athlete can kneel on the clock, the black athlete can kneel on the clock.

 

[Anna Scott]

. . . . .Tim Tebow does not pray to protest. He prays to talk with God. . . . .

While I'm happy to see a Christian like Tebow kneel to pray, Tebow opened a serious door in kneeling to pray while on the clock. If a Christian can kneel and pray on the field, then any person from any religion would have an equal right to pray in their respective prayer postures, while on the field.

 

[pat34lee]

As I said in a previous post:
Basically, you are saying the white athlete, Tim Tebow, can kneel when he's on the clock; but the black athlete, Colin Kaepernick, can only kneel on his own time.

No, YOU are saying that YOU see color over substance.
That is wrong on many levels.

When Tim Tebow or any white player is disrespectful
of the flag and anthem and the fans watching, then
they are the problem, just as Kaepernick and all the
idiots kneeling since DURING the anthem.

 

[pat34lee]

It doesn't matter if Colin Kaepernick's protest is religious. If the white athlete can kneel on the clock, the black athlete can kneel on the clock.

Who argues 'on the clock'? The argument is being disrespectful
while representing their team and fans. Is Tebow being disrespectful
to anyone when he prays? If he is, then he needs to stop. If not, he
is not relevant to the issue.

 

[pat34lee]

While I'm happy to see a Christian like Tebow kneel to pray, Tebow opened a serious door in kneeling to pray while on the clock. If a Christian can kneel and pray on the field, then any person from any religion would have an equal right to pray in their respective prayer postures, while on the field.

That would be up to the league, and I doubt they would
care up until it becomes a spectacle or a hindrance to
playing the game.

 

[Anna Scott]

No, YOU are saying that YOU see color over substance.
That is wrong on many levels.

When Tim Tebow or any white player is disrespectful
of the flag and anthem and the fans watching, then
they are the problem, just as Kaepernick and all the
idiots kneeling since DURING the anthem.

I was simply pointing out the fact that you defended Tim Tebow, who happens to be white; while criticizing a another player, who happens to be black, for the same posture. Both kneel on the field. Their motives should not matter. Their freedom should be equal.

Who argues 'on the clock'? The argument is being disrespectful
while representing their team and fans. Is Tebow being disrespectful
to anyone when he prays? If he is, then he needs to stop. If not, he
is not relevant to the issue.

You did! You said, "They are free to do whatever they want. On their own time." You said this, while defending Tebow's kneeling on the clock.

They are free to do whatever they want. On their own time.
If you attend, you are free to kneel, as you pay for the privilege.

As for being disrespectful, that is in the eyes of those witnessing the kneeling. People of other religions or with no religion may find Tebow's kneeling to be disrespectful to them. Tebow was criticized, too.

 

[Anna Scott]

That would be up to the league, and I doubt they would
care up until it becomes a spectacle or a hindrance to
playing the game.

So, you wouldn't mind if a Muslim player assumed the Muslim prayer posture and prayed to Allah?

Have you ever seen Kaepernick? Without that foot-tall afro,
he looks like a Mediterranean. He was raised by white people.
He got into disrespecting America only when he began dating
a Muslim woman. He supposedly hasn't converted (yet), but
it seems he's well on his way.

This is extremely offensive, which was pointed out by another poster. Being Muslim is not synonymous with disrespecting America.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

So, you wouldn't mind if a Muslim player assumed the Muslim prayer posture and prayed to Allah?

Considering how Muslims have been disparaged in this country, I would imagine a lot of Americans would have a hysterical fit if a Muslim football player did that. I can imagine a lot of moral indignation and an extreme public outcry of how Muslims are trying to take over America and enforce Islam, and any other rhetorical nonsense to cause fear and to further marginalize and dehumanize Muslims.

This is extremely offensive, which was pointed out by another poster. Being Muslim is not synonymous with disrespecting America.

I agree.

 

[pat34lee]

I was simply pointing out the fact that you defended Tim Tebow, who happens to be white; while criticizing a another player, who happens to be black, for the same posture. Both kneel on the field. Their motives should not matter. Their freedom should be equal.

If you don't know the difference between offensive behavior
and Christian or godly behavior, then you will never get it.

 

[pat34lee]

Being Muslim is not synonymous with disrespecting America.

Islam is more synonymous with being anti-freedom and anti-American.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

If you don't know the difference between offensive behavior and Christian or godly behavior, then you will never get it.

I'm not sure how Tim Tebow praying in public like he did, making a spectacle of himself and his faith, is either Christian or godly behavior, considering what Jesus said about praying in public.

“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." Matthew 6:5-6

 

[ArmenianJohn]

You wish others were wrong, too? Not me.

Where did I say I wish others were wrong? Stop lying.

If you can't imagine the difference between respect
and idolization, then you have a serious problem.

I know the difference between respect and worshiping idols, so I don't know why you're saying "if". I know what idols are and I know what God's Word says about idol worship and how God hates it.

If anything, more people idolize the games of football,
baseball and soccer than they do any country.

People idolize everything including sports. But I don't think "more people" idolize sports, I'm sure more people idolize America and all the idols that represent America. I see it all around me. The same people who won't dare to sit or kneel for the national anthem will go to Church in crappy clothes, won't even stand to pray, drink coffee and eat food in church, and refuse to make the sign of the cross. But someone doesn't stand for the national anthem as if it's some sort of god to be worshiped and they get totally bent out of shape and outraged. That's idol worship and anyone who can't see it has a problem with discernment (possibly because they are not truly Christian).

Then
again, some on the far left see government as God,
parent and protector.

Not sure how that's relevant. As for government, it isn't God, but the Word of God does teach that we are to submit to governmental authority as long as it doesn't cause us to disobey God. God's Word further instructs us that earthly governmental authority is God's tool to mete out justice. Those who don't agree with that are calling God a liar and a lot of those people happen to be the America-worshipers to begin with. No surprise they have a false god and therefore reject what God teaches in His Word.