Affirmative Action, Racial Discrimination Against Non-Minorities?

[RocksInMyHead]

What is the source for those facts regarding Ms. Fisher? I ask because some of them are inconsistent with the facts of the case as litigated in court.

Regardless, Ms. Fisher says her academic profile was superior to many of the minority students admitted at UT, in which the university used the race of the minority applicant as a factor for admission. UT did not deny they used race as a factor for admission and further stated they did so to achieve a diverse student body.

According to the information I can find, a total of 47 students with worse academic performance than Ms. Fisher were admitted. Of those, 42 were white and 5 were minorities. Given the proportions, I'm not sure it's possible to conclusively say that the 5 minority students were chosen over Ms. Fisher based solely on race.

 

[Truth7t7]

As did 42 other white applicants. Not sure it's possible to demonstrate conclusively that the minority applicants were selected over her based solely on race.


How do you control for consistent test conditions? What if an applicant is sick the day of the test, or the AC in the building is broken (this is Texas, it gets hot), or someone is being disruptive, etc? What about students who have test anxiety or just test poorly despite having excellent performance in all other metrics? Basing admissions solely on an exam is not a fair process either.

It appears you aren't in touch with the real world?

If you can't perform in a uniform testing condition your out, go work at Mc Donalds, simple.

You are hiring into a skilled job, they have jniform testind, no complaints about the pencil sharpner, air conditioning, test anxiety?

If you can't cut the mustard, apply at Mc Donalds, simple!

 

[Goonie]

It appears you aren't in touch with the real world?

If you can't perform in a uniform testing condition your out, go work at Mc Donalds, simple.

You are hiring into a skilled job, they have jniform testind, no complaints about the pencil sharpner, air conditioning, test anxiety?

If you can't cut the mustard, apply at Mc Donalds, simple!

In the real world you do not work in exam conditions.

 

[Go Braves]

Fact minorities scored lower than the "White Girl" and were admitted based upon "Race"

A uniform entrance level exam is needed, remove "Race" as preferential treatment.

The white applicant only scored an 1180 on her SAT, putting her below the median for the class she was applying to be in. Again, it's a fact that there were minorities who earned their admission whereas she failed to do so, on account of how they were in the top percentage of their class. The SAT isn't a uniform entrance level exam, but it is a required test for admission. Considering how her score on it was unremarkable it's likely she wouldn't have been a top scorer if such an exam did exist.

Your scenario has not drawn a logical and fair conclusion to remove "Race" based discrimination of the non minority.

Well, the Supreme Court of the United States disagreed with you in their ruling.

 

[keith99]

"Uniform" entry level testing, highest scores are admitted, will you now try to create subjectivity with this one

Sure, what is worth testing for is subjective.

I've only been rejected for admission at one college. That is counting both grad school and under grad. There is another college just a few miles away from it.

Anyone trying to create a test that was useful for determining admission to Cal Tech and Pasadena City College would fail miserably. The results of that test would be objective and useless for at least one of the 2 schools and likely for both.

 

[Truth7t7]

The white applicant only scored an 1180 on her SAT, putting her below the median for the class she was applying to be in. Again, it's a fact that there were minorities who earned their admission whereas she failed to do so, on account of how they were in the top percentage of their class. The SAT isn't a uniform entrance level exam, but it is a required test for admission. Considering how her score on it was unremarkable it's likely she wouldn't have been a top scorer if such an exam did exist.



Well, the Supreme Court of the United States disagreed with you in their ruling.

Do you not think the approaches below are not being used, "Holistic Admissions"?

Black applicant, low test scores and GPA, hey he's a great creative foot all player, he's in!

You disregard the entire opinjon, what about decendants of slaves?

Quote OP Below:

But affirmative action's defenders say it has helped raise minority representation on campuses, and that most universities rely on a “holistic” admissions approach that looks at applicants' public service, creativity and other attributes, as well as race. Georgetown and other schools are pursuing innovative ways to diversify their student bodies, such as admitting the descendants of slaves owned by their institutions. Meanwhile, activist Edward Blum has filed numerous suits challenging laws and policies that favor minorities over whites.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

It appears you aren't in touch with the real world?

If you can't perform in a uniform testing condition your out, go work at Mc Donalds, simple.

You are hiring into a skilled job, they have jniform testind, no complaints about the pencil sharpner, air conditioning, test anxiety?

If you can't cut the mustard, apply at Mc Donalds, simple!

So if I have the flu on the only day I can take the test, I should work at McDonalds? Really?

 

[Truth7t7]

Sure, what is worth testing for is subjective.

I've only been rejected for admission at one college. That is counting both grad school and under grad. There is another college just a few miles away from it.

Anyone trying to create a test that was useful for determining admission to Cal Tech and Pasadena City College would fail miserably. The results of that test would be objective and useless for at least one of the 2 schools and likely for both.

A uniform test that is given equally to every applicant, and you still cry objective, big smiles!

 

[Truth7t7]

So if I have the flu on the only day I can take the test, I should work at McDonalds? Really?

Reschedule or get er done!

You know what the answer was before you asked, is the glass half full or half empty?

 

[Goonie]

I’m wondering whether Microsoft have unleashed Tay on to the forums.

 

[Truth7t7]

I’m wondering whether Microsoft have unleashed Tay on to the forums.

Unleased Tay?

 

[Goonie]

Unleased Tay?

Tay (bot) - Wikipedia

 

[keith99]

It appears you aren't in touch with the real world?

If you can't perform in a uniform testing condition your out, go work at Mc Donalds, simple.

You are hiring into a skilled job, they have jniform testind, no complaints about the pencil sharpner, air conditioning, test anxiety?

If you can't cut the mustard, apply at Mc Donalds, simple!

If you do not know the difference between you're and your then you're out!

 

[keith99]

So if I have the flu on the only day I can take the test, I should work at McDonalds? Really?

With the SAT you can retake the test as many times as you want. Actually I was running a fever of over 100 the day I took the subject tests and was splitting the day between taking the SAT and a swim meet.

So if you have the money you can retake the test until you score well. If you are poor that option may vanish.

BTW the testing conditions at Beverly Hills HIgh School were considerably better than where I took the first part of the SAT. Air conditioning and a significant increase in working space does matter.

 

[keith99]

A uniform test that is given equally to every applicant, and you still cry objective, big smiles!

No you are the one who worships objective. I however have a college education and have learned objective is NOT the gold standard of measurement and is NOT always to be strived for.

 

[Go Braves]

Do you not think the approaches below are not being used, "Holistic Admissions"?

Black applicant, low test scores and GPA, hey he's a great creative foot all player, he's in!

You disregard the entire opinjon, what about decendants of slaves?

Quote OP Below:

But affirmative action's defenders say it has helped raise minority representation on campuses, and that most universities rely on a “holistic” admissions approach that looks at applicants' public service, creativity and other attributes, as well as race. Georgetown and other schools are pursuing innovative ways to diversify their student bodies, such as admitting the descendants of slaves owned by their institutions. Meanwhile, activist Edward Blum has filed numerous suits challenging laws and policies that favor minorities over whites.

Lulz. Do you not realize that Abigail Fisher was wanting holistic approaches to be used to her benefit? Holistic approaches include looking at talents outside of academics. She felt that being a talented cello player should count for more. Again she failed to be in the top 10% of her class, & she got a SAT score that was below the median for her class.

You never answered the question about college. Did you actually attend college?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Reschedule or get er done!

There are no alternate dates. And I don't feel that my test performance while running a fever of 103 and throwing up every 10 minutes is an accurate gauge of my fitness for college.

The point being that there is absolutely no way to design a totally objective single test for anything if you're being compared to others. That's why classes base grades on multiple exams, multiple assignments, and different types of assignments. At bare minimum, you would need to have a whole series of exams to have something approaching objectivity. But that creates an enormous burden on both the students and the schools. And we already have a couple of standardized exams (the SAT and the ACT) that are used as a component of the admissions process. It's much easier to take those existing metrics and combine them with other existing metrics (grades) as well as certain holistic elements that the administration feels would enrich the student body (extra-curricular activities, racial diversity, different viewpoints, different socioeconomic status, etc).

 

[RocksInMyHead]

With the SAT you can retake the test as many times as you want. Actually I was running a fever of over 100 the day I took the subject tests and was splitting the day between taking the SAT and a swim meet.

So if you have the money you can retake the test until you score well. If you are poor that option may vanish.

BTW the testing conditions at Beverly Hills HIgh School were considerably better than where I took the first part of the SAT. Air conditioning and a significant increase in working space does matter.

I'm aware - I took it a couple times myself. This is the hypothetical be-all-end-all test that @Truth7t7 is proposing though.

 

[Truth7t7]

No you are the one who worships objective. I however have a college education and have learned objective is NOT the gold standard of measurement and is NOT always to be strived for.

If a uniform testing procedure isn't strived for, what pray tell, are you looking for, im in suspense?

 

[Truth7t7]

Lulz. Do you not realize that Abigail Fisher was wanting holistic approaches to be used to her benefit? Holistic approaches include looking at talents outside of academics. She felt that being a talented cello player should count for more. Again she failed to be in the top 10% of her class, & she got a SAT score that was below the median for her class.

You never answered the question about college. Did you actually attend college?

Your blind to the truth, fisher didn't qualify for the 92% of admissions that applied to the top 10%, get your story straight!

Fisher was competing for the 8% left open, that was based upon race, income, foreign language, as qualifiers, capiche!

"Personal Achievement Index"= Discrimination!

What Abigail Fisher’s Affirmative Action Case Was Really About

In 2008, the year Fisher sent in her application, competition to get into the crown jewel of the Texas university system was stiff. Students entering through the university's Top 10 program — a mechanism that granted automatic admission to any teen who graduated in the upper 10 percent of his or her high school class — claimed 92 percent of the in-state spots.

Fisher said in news reports that she hoped for the day universities selected students "solely based on their merit and if they work hard for it." But Fisher failed to graduate in the top 10 percent of her class, meaning she had to compete for the limited number of spaces up for grabs.

She and other applicants who did not make the cut were evaluated based on two scores. One allotted points for grades and test scores. The other, called a personal achievement index, awarded points for two required essays, leadership, activities, service and "special circumstances." Those included socioeconomic status of the student or the student's school, coming from a home with a single parent or one where English wasn't spoken. And race.

Those two scores, combined, determine admission.