Affirmative Action, Racial Discrimination Against Non-Minorities?

[keith99]

That would be a very isolated case, a lottery would be needed for fairness.

Draw the straws, pick the high card.

Even if one of those students attended a high school where you got a 'B' for mere attendance?

Objective is far from equal or fair.

 

[Truth7t7]

Even if one of those students attended a high school where you got a 'B' for mere attendance?

Objective is far from equal or fair.

Entry level test scores aren't, let's make it testing scores then, No subjective criteria.

High school exit Sat scores, and college entrance test scores?

 

[keith99]

Once again being a "Good Citizen" is subjective.

I believe a good citizen serves Jesus Christ, and opposes the Liberal agenda, you and others may believe different.

GPA and Test Scores for Admission, No Subjective Criteria Involved.

How do you calculate GPA? Do you give the extra point for AP and Honors classes? Do you include P.E.? How about shop and 'home ec' classes?

So which tests? The SAT also has subject tests and in Math has 2 different levels.

If 2 students have identical GPAs and are identical in their SATs except one took Math Level 1 and got an 800 and the other took Math level 2 are you saying you would accept the student who took the level 1 test?

Fortunately I could not have gotten shafted that way. I scored 800 on the math level 2.

 

[keith99]

Entry level test scores aren't, let's make it testing scores then, No subjective criteria.

High school exit Sat scores, and college entrance test scores?

The SATs are not a high school exit test.

 

[Truth7t7]

The SATs are not a high school exit test.

"Uniform" entry level testing, highest scores are admitted, will you now try to create subjectivity with this one

 

[Go Braves]

Admission should be based on GPA and test scores. All other criteria are subjective and subject to abuse.

The University of Texas at Austin's admission process for Texans makes a whole lot more sense. 75% of their freshman class is basically reserved for applicants from within the state who are in the top 7% of their HS's graduating class. This is regardless of race. This is a whole lot more fair on account of how it's based on how well the kids did in their own class, in their own school. Just going by GPA isn't fair at all on account of how that can vary way too much. You'd have to go by an unweighted GPA in order to have a level playing field at all. That could actually penalize kids going to richer schools on account of how those schools can afford to offer AP classes that are a lot harder to get a high grade in. So it's much better for the kids to be competing with other kids in their own school to be in the top percentage of their class.

Test scores alone aren't subjective either. Maybe if they were provided for free & everybody was only allowed to take them 1 time. Even then you'd have the kids who could afford to have expensive tutoring at an advantage.

Now, Texans who aren't in the top 7% can still apply. That's where all these other things come into play. You have to write all these essays for admission, have letters of recommendations, fill out your sports, awards. They fill up the rest of the class with those kids & the out of state & international kids who apply too.

Now, the white girl who got rejected & sued on account of it was only in the top 12% of her class. She didn't earn her place so I can't feel an ounce of sorriness for her. 10 years back when she applied admission to Texas was easier than now. They took the top 10%. Again, regardless of race. She still wouldn't have made that. Something like 85% of the class was made up of Texas kids who worked their tails off to do what she failed to do, be in the top 10%. She & other kids who failed to earn acceptance on account of their class rank could still apply but they were competing against all the out of state & international applicants as well as the other Texans who weren't in their 10%. Kids who were the valedictorians, salutatorians of their class but from out of state would have been applying for those leftover spots. They had a disadvantage on account of being out of state. She argued she should have gotten in on account of how she was great at playing the cello & other things like that. Basically the gal decided to spend a ton of her life & a ton of legal expense on account of her entitlement complex. Now for that small percentage, race was looked at, but again it wasn't looked at for the majority of the class who earned their places fair & square regardless of their race. If she wanted to get in there, she should have worked harder to have graduated higher up in her own class.

 

[Truth7t7]

The University of Texas at Austin's admission process for Texans makes a whole lot more sense. 75% of their freshman class is basically reserved for applicants from within the state who are in the top 7% of their HS's graduating class. This is regardless of race. This is a whole lot more fair on account of how it's based on how well the kids did in their own class, in their own school. Just going by GPA isn't fair at all on account of how that can vary way too much. You'd have to go by an unweighted GPA in order to have a level playing field at all. That could actually penalize kids going to richer schools on account of how those schools can afford to offer AP classes that are a lot harder to get a high grade in. So it's much better for the kids to be competing with other kids in their own school to be in the top percentage of their class.

Test scores alone aren't subjective either. Maybe if they were provided for free & everybody was only allowed to take them 1 time. Even then you'd have the kids who could afford to have expensive tutoring at an advantage.

Now, Texans who aren't in the top 7% can still apply. That's where all these other things come into play. You have to write all these essays for admission, have letters of recommendations, fill out your sports, awards. They fill up the rest of the class with those kids & the out of state & international kids who apply too.

Now, the white girl who got rejected & sued on account of it was only in the top 12% of her class. She didn't earn her place so I can't feel an ounce of sorriness for her. 10 years back when she applied admission to Texas was easier than now. They took the top 10%. Again, regardless of race. She still wouldn't have made that. Something like 85% of the class was made up of Texas kids who worked their tails off to do what she failed to do, be in the top 10%. She & other kids who failed to earn acceptance on account of their class rank could still apply but they were competing against all the out of state & international applicants as well as the other Texans who weren't in their 10%. Kids who were the valedictorians, salutatorians of their class but from out of state would have been applying for those leftover spots. They had a disadvantage on account of being out of state. She argued she should have gotten in on account of how she was great at playing the cello & other things like that. Basically the gal decided to spend a ton of her life & a ton of legal expense on account of her entitlement complex. Now for that small percentage, race was looked at, but again it wasn't looked at for the majority of the class who earned their places fair & square regardless of their race. If she wanted to get in there, she should have worked harder to have graduated higher up in her own class.

You reference the "White Girl"?

There were minorities that scored lower than her that were admitted due to Affirmative Action boosting their scores based on "Race", fact!

A uniform "Entrance Level Exam" should be given, highest score wins!

"American Citizens First"!

 

[Go Braves]

You reference the "White Girl"?

There were minorities that scored lower than her that were admitted due to Affirmative Action, fact!

A uniform "Entrance Level Exam" should be given, highest score wins!

"American Citizens First"!

Lol. It's a fact that there were many nonwhite applicants, as well as white applicants, who earned their admission on account of them being in the top percentage of their HS graduating class, unlike Abigail Fisher, the white gal, who didn't work hard enough to be in hers. It's a fact that there were also nonwhite kids who also weren't in the top 10% of their graduating class & also did not get admitted. It's a fact that there were also other white kids who weren't in the top 10% of their class & also did not get admitted but didn't sulk about it.

Are you an American citizen who actually went to college? If so, when? Was there a uniform entrance level exam given?

 

[Truth7t7]

Lol. It's a fact that there were many nonwhite applicants, as well as white applicants, who earned their admission on account of them being in the top percentage of their HS graduating class, unlike Abigail Fisher, the white gal, who didn't work hard enough to be in hers. It's a fact that there were also nonwhite kids who also weren't in the top 10% of their graduating class & also did not get admitted. It's a fact that there were also other white kids who weren't in the top 10% of their class & also did not get admitted but didn't sulk about it.

Are you an American citizen who actually went to college? If so, when? Was there a uniform entrance level exam given?

Fact minorities scored lower than the "White Girl" and were admitted based upon "Race"

A uniform entrance level exam is needed, remove "Race" as preferential treatment.

Your scenario has not drawn a logical and fair conclusion to remove "Race" based discrimination of the non minority.

 

[NotreDame]

The University of Texas at Austin's admission process for Texans makes a whole lot more sense. 75% of their freshman class is basically reserved for applicants from within the state who are in the top 7% of their HS's graduating class. This is regardless of race. This is a whole lot more fair on account of how it's based on how well the kids did in their own class, in their own school. Just going by GPA isn't fair at all on account of how that can vary way too much. You'd have to go by an unweighted GPA in order to have a level playing field at all. That could actually penalize kids going to richer schools on account of how those schools can afford to offer AP classes that are a lot harder to get a high grade in. So it's much better for the kids to be competing with other kids in their own school to be in the top percentage of their class.

Test scores alone aren't subjective either. Maybe if they were provided for free & everybody was only allowed to take them 1 time. Even then you'd have the kids who could afford to have expensive tutoring at an advantage.

Now, Texans who aren't in the top 7% can still apply. That's where all these other things come into play. You have to write all these essays for admission, have letters of recommendations, fill out your sports, awards. They fill up the rest of the class with those kids & the out of state & international kids who apply too.

Now, the white girl who got rejected & sued on account of it was only in the top 12% of her class. She didn't earn her place so I can't feel an ounce of sorriness for her. 10 years back when she applied admission to Texas was easier than now. They took the top 10%. Again, regardless of race. She still wouldn't have made that. Something like 85% of the class was made up of Texas kids who worked their tails off to do what she failed to do, be in the top 10%. She & other kids who failed to earn acceptance on account of their class rank could still apply but they were competing against all the out of state & international applicants as well as the other Texans who weren't in their 10%. Kids who were the valedictorians, salutatorians of their class but from out of state would have been applying for those leftover spots. They had a disadvantage on account of being out of state. She argued she should have gotten in on account of how she was great at playing the cello & other things like that. Basically the gal decided to spend a ton of her life & a ton of legal expense on account of her entitlement complex. Now for that small percentage, race was looked at, but again it wasn't looked at for the majority of the class who earned their places fair & square regardless of their race. If she wanted to get in there, she should have worked harder to have graduated higher up in her own class.

What is the source for those facts regarding Ms. Fisher? I ask because some of them are inconsistent with the facts of the case as litigated in court.

Regardless, Ms. Fisher says her academic profile was superior to many of the minority students admitted at UT, in which the university used the race of the minority applicant as a factor for admission. UT did not deny they used race as a factor for admission and further stated they did so to achieve a diverse student body.

 

[KCfromNC]

GPA and Test Scores for Admission, No Subjective Criteria Involved.

Is the objectively correct GPA the weighted or unweighted one? And which form of weighting is objectively correct? Be sure to include citations demonstrating your objective conclusions.

 

[KCfromNC]

"Uniform" entry level testing, highest scores are admitted

Which test has been objectively shown to be the one correct predictor of college performance?

 

[Truth7t7]

Which test has been objectively shown to be the one correct predictor of college performance?

If a test is given uniformly, and all applicants are given the same test without any additional preference It's a fair playing field.

Currently there is the added bonus relating to "Race"

Reverse discrimination

 

[KCfromNC]

If a test is given uniformly, and all applicants are given the same test without any additional preference It's a fair playing field.

So exactly which test are you advocating for?

 

[Truth7t7]

So exactly which test are you advocating for?

The test that does not include "Race" as a deciding factor

 

[rturner76]

Citations please?

"However, looking just at those with a bachelor’s degree or more education, wage gaps by gender, race and ethnicity persist. College-educated black and Hispanic men earn roughly 80% the hourly wages of white college educated men ($25 and $26 vs. $32, respectively)."
Racial, gender wage gaps persist in U.S. despite some progress

 

[tall73]

"However, looking just at those with a bachelor’s degree or more education, wage gaps by gender, race and ethnicity persist. College-educated black and Hispanic men earn roughly 80% the hourly wages of white college educated men ($25 and $26 vs. $32, respectively)."
Racial, gender wage gaps persist in U.S. despite some progress

And Asians outscored them all. What factors do you think led to that?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Fact minorities scored lower than the "White Girl" and were admitted

As did 42 other white applicants. Not sure it's possible to demonstrate conclusively that the minority applicants were selected over her based solely on race.

A uniform entrance level exam is needed, remove "Race" as preferential treatment.

How do you control for consistent test conditions? What if an applicant is sick the day of the test, or the AC in the building is broken (this is Texas, it gets hot), or someone is being disruptive, etc? What about students who have test anxiety or just test poorly despite having excellent performance in all other metrics? Basing admissions solely on an exam is not a fair process either.

 

[Go Braves]

What is the source for those facts regarding Ms. Fisher? I ask because some of them are inconsistent with the facts of the case as litigated in court.

Regardless, Ms. Fisher says her academic profile was superior to many of the minority students admitted at UT, in which the university used the race of the minority applicant as a factor for admission. UT did not deny they used race as a factor for admission and further stated they did so to achieve a diverse student body.

What, exactly, are you claiming to be inconsistent?

How would Abigail Fisher have access to all the academic profiles of the minority students admitted at UT for her class?

Like I wrote in my post, with TX House Bill 588 81% of the class she was applying to be in were admitted based on being in the top 10% of their class, regardless of their race. She failed to earn admission that way, having an inferior academic record to those who were. She also only got an 1180 on her SAT, putting her below the average for those who were admitted in that class.

 

[Vylo]

You don't lower the standards for minorities. You give them extra help to bring them up to the standards.