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Adventist end time beliefs?

BobRyan

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The whole SDA scheme collapses when Jeremiah and Hebrews say the New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant. There are no Sabbath requirements in the New.

until you read the New Covenant --- Jer 31:31-33 states the New Covenant as "writing the LAW on the heart and mind" that is known to Jeremiah and his readers as the moral law of God --

Fact about the NEW Covenant and the LAW of God - admitted by almost all pro-sunday groups not just the Sabbath groups.

So then that includes --

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.
 
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mmksparbud

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“In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.” Hebrews 8:13 (KJV 1900)

Read all of Hebrews----it's all talking about the Priesthood---Jesus is now our High Priest.
 
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BobRyan

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“In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.” Hebrews 8:13 (KJV 1900)

And when we take the time to read it -- we see that the NEW Covenant writes "The LAW on the heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33
 
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CharismaticLady

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until you read the New Covenant --- Jer 31:31-33 states the New Covenant as "writing the LAW on the heart and mind" that is known to Jeremiah and his readers as the moral law of God --

Fact about the NEW Covenant and the LAW of God - admitted by almost all pro-sunday groups not just the Sabbath groups.

So then that includes --

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

The moral law, also known as the royal law has to do with loving our neighbor as ourselves; therefore 5-6 of the 10 commandments.

The rich young ruler asks Jesus which these are, and Jesus answered.

Matthew 19:
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
 
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mmksparbud

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The moral law, also known as the royal law has to do with loving our neighbor as ourselves; therefore 5-6 of the 10 commandments.

The rich young ruler asks Jesus which these are, and Jesus answered.

Matthew 19:
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”



He is quoting the last 6 of the 10 for they describe our duty to man----the 1st 4 deal with our duty to God. Both are required and summed up as---
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
 
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CharismaticLady

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He is quoting the last 6 of the 10 for they describe our duty to man----the 1st 4 deal with our duty to God. Both are required and summed up as---
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The royal moral laws have to do with our neighbor.

1 John 3:23 shows how the 10 are divided, between God who is Jesus and our trust in Him giving us rest, and the laws concerning our neighbors

But they are no longer just surface laws skimming the surface, but go deeper to the source of sin, our nature.
 
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mmksparbud

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The royal moral laws have to do with our neighbor.

1 John 3:23 shows how the 10 are divided, between God who is Jesus and our trust in Him giving us rest, and the laws concerning our neighbors

But they are no longer just surface laws skimming the surface, but go deeper to the source of sin, our nature.

So you believe there are no rules God set in place as what our duty to Him means? Jesus wrote them (all 10) on stone with His own finger, they were placed inside the ark, which represented the very seat of God Himself. The laws about the priesthood were written on parchment, dictated by God but written by Moses and they were placed outside the ark. Only He can in any way change them.
 
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Dave L

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Read all of Hebrews----it's all talking about the Priesthood---Jesus is now our High Priest.
It's talking about Jeremiah 31 in this passage. And how the New Covenant replaced the Ten Commandments (Old Covenant).
 
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Dave L

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People who are presented the Gospel in remote areas often need to be told just such a thing. Further, Christ seemed to find it necessary to elaborate on these issues. Even within the law itself coveting is forbidden for what other purpose than to prevent the grosser crimes?
And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. 1 Corinthians 8:2.
But the new birth = saved people don't need to be threatened with death keep them from stealing.
 
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Dave L

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Is this supposed to prove a pan-historic view of the juxtaposition between legalism and righteousness by faith?
The TCs were for wicked unbelievers;

“But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;” 1 Timothy 1:8–10 (KJV 1900)

Notice Abraham, Job, Abel and the other born again did not need them.
 
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mmksparbud

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It's talking about Jeremiah 31 in this passage. And how the New Covenant replaced the Ten Commandments (Old Covenant).


Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people

Really? I see that it says THE LAW WILL BE PLACED IN THEIR INWARD PARTS AND WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS. I see nothing about doing away with the law.
 
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Dave L

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Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people

Really? I see that it says THE LAW WILL BE PLACED IN THEIR INWARD PARTS AND WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS. I see nothing about doing away with the law.
The Law in the heart = love for God and People. These replace the TCs that forced wicked people to act like they love God and people under threat of death.
 
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BobRyan

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The moral law, also known as the royal law has to do with loving our neighbor as ourselves; therefore 5-6 of the 10 commandments.

The rich young ruler asks Jesus which these are, and Jesus answered.

Matthew 19:
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

Indeed - Jesus did not mention "do not take God's name in vain" nor did He mention in Matthew 19 "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5. He also did not say "throw out the scripture and substitute these next 3 sentences instead".

What we find in your reference to "the "royal law" in James 2 -- is that it is all entirely based on "He who said" and not at all on "toss out your Bibles and just believe these next 2 sentences".

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.
 
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BobRyan

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The Law in the heart = love for God and People. These replace the TCs

There is no "these replace" in the entire scripture - as we all know, when it comes to the Ten.

You reference Deut 6:4 to Love God with all your heart and Lev 19:18 "love your neighbor as yourself" as if Christ had said "these replace the Ten Commandments" anywhere in scripture... and yet we all know Christ never said that.

In fact the actual words in scripture say that the LAW, the Prophets (i.e. all of scripture including the TEN) -- DEPEND on the two foundation commandments in the LAW of Moses -- They are founded on them rather than "abolished by their own foundation upon which they depend".


Matt 22
34 But when the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered themselves together. 35 One of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

Jeremiah tells his readers that the NEW Covenant writes "the LAW of God on the heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33 and that law DEPENDS on the two great commandments in the LAW of Moses - Deut 6:5 and Lev 19:18
 
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BobRyan

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Eph 6:2 Paul says to the saints to keep the Commandments 1 Cor 7:19 reminding us that the 5th commandment is "the first commandment with a promise"

And Jesus said this about the Ten -

Mark 7
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

No wonder Jesus also said
Matt 5
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

"Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

You may respond with "yeah - but all that is just scripture where the LAW of God known to Jeremiah and his readers is written on the heart in the NEW Covenant... but what about man-made-tradition? What does IT teach?"


The TCs were for wicked unbelievers;

Luke 16
And Jesus said this in a parable -- 29 But Abraham *said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’
 
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BobRyan

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But they are no longer just surface laws skimming the surface, .

Matt 5 - before the cross - Jesus states that they were never "skimming the surface" ... and Mark 7 is where Jesus shows that they are "the Word of God" and even when man-made-tradition imagines it is not infringing on God's Word... yet it is.
 
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BobRyan

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Notice Abraham, Job, Abel and the other born again did not need them.

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians - for all mankind... going all the way back to Eden.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

======================

Moses wrote Genesis, Lev, etc. and gave the books to his readers at the same time.

So when the reader sees that God tells Able that "sin is at his door" it is because God's commandments say not to murder.

When the reader sees that clean vs unclean animal distinctions are made in Genesis 6 and 7 -- they can go over to Lev 11 to see "just what those terms mean ... how are they defined" -- so then the people before the flood have access to the information and act on it as we see n Genesis 4 and 6 and 7..
 
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mmksparbud

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The Law in the heart = love for God and People. These replace the TCs that forced wicked people to act like they love God and people under threat of death.

What it says is---whether the law is written on stone, or in the heart---it is written!
 
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Dave L

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What it says is---whether the law is written on stone, or in the heart---it is written!
But the Law from which the Ten Commandments hung, remains for believers only. The Ten Commandments for wicked unbelievers is now only used for commentary purposes. Notice there is no Sabbath required in the New Covenant.
 
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summerville

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Emphasis on the 4th commandment on the Sabbath.

Sunday is the mark of the beast. (worshipers of the Sun God).

Post Tribulation.

Babylon is the Roman Catholic Church, and the Antichrist will be a pope. The Latin writing on his hat adds up to 666.

The Mark of the Beast was Roman coin.
 
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