Acts 21-28 Paul is a Messianic Jew and declares his views under oath

[BobRyan]

Consider "the bible details"

=============================

Quoting a law from the ten is also quoting a law from the 613. Again, Paul makes no reference to the ten.

Until you read Ephesians 6:2
And Romans 7
and Romans 13

=================================

Super easy example --

Eph 6
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3 so that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth.

Okay, I read ephesians 6:2, one of the 613.

"The FIRST ONE" with a promise. So now Paul is talking a specific unit of LAW and a specific order of the commandments.

So in the order in which we find it in the Bible it is the FIRST commandment with a promise.

So then is it the "FIRST in the 613" as we read the Bible in order,,, with a promise? Or is this specifically talking about the UNIT of TEN and the ORDER within that unit where we find the 5th commandment?

Are you simply avoiding this key bible detail with your "I read Eph 6:2"

The promise is to the people who are under that covenant or are reciepients of the promises of that covenant.

I'm not sure what the other point is.

The text quoted is from the TEN Commandments and in Eph 6:2 Paul argues that it continues - what is more Paul argues for its inclusion in the TEN - as forceful authority that would be accepted by the saints in the NT. He goes out of his way to do that.

Paul is talking about a specific law. He is not talking anything about it's order or relationship to other laws. .

Your quote of "you" noted -- now here is the quote of actual scripture refuting the speculation you offer in that post ...

Eph 6
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3 so that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth.

Were we "simply not supposed to notice"???

How was "that" ever supposed to happen???

 

[BobRyan]

Which text in the OP -- do you oppose?

What is encouraging is that the span from Acts 21-28 gives a great view of how Paul declared his own practice "under oath" and before both Jews and gentiles starting with clarification of his teaching for his fellow Messianic Jews.



Acts 21
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law

Acts 24
14But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets


Acts 25
8 while he answered for himself, “Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all.;


Acts 26
Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come; 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles;

Acts 28
17 And it came to pass after three days that Paul called the leaders of the Jews together. So when they had come together, he said to them: Men and brethren, though I have done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers, yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans,... I have called for you, to see you and speak with you, because for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
...
23 So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening

 

[Open Heart]

Eph 6
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3 so that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth.

Were we "simply not supposed to notice"???

How was "that" ever supposed to happen???

Right. It's the first commandment (aka the first of the 613 commandments) with a promise. So?

 

[BobRyan]

Eph 6
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3 so that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth.

Right. It's the first commandment (aka the first of the 613 commandments) with a promise. So?

Until you read the actual Bible

-- is it your claim that reading Exodus there is no promise or command until Exodus 20:12???
-- Is it your claim that there are no commands in the 613 in Genesis or Exodus that include a promise until Exodus 20:12????

You can't be serious.

Bible details matter.

=========== hint even the Jewish list of 613 does NOT show Exodus 20:12 to be the first command or the first command with a promise

Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

G-d

1. To know that G-d exists (Ex. 20:2; Deut. 5:6) (CCA1). See What Do Jews Believe?.
2. Not to entertain the idea that there is any god but the Eternal (Ex. 20:3) (CCN8). See What Do Jews Believe?.
3. Not to blaspheme (Ex. 22:27; in Christian texts, Ex. 22:28), the penalty for which is death (Lev. 24:16) (negative).
4. To hallow G-d's name (Lev. 22:32) (CCA5). See The Name of G-d.
5. Not to profane G-d's name (Lev . 22:32) (CCN155). See The Name of G-d.
6. To know that G-d is One, a complete Unity (Deut. 6:4) (CCA2). See What Do Jews Believe?.
7. To love G-d (Deut. 6:5) (CCA3). See What Do Jews Believe?.
8. To fear Him reverently (Deut. 6:13; 10:20) (CCA4).
9. Not to put the word of G-d to the test (Deut. 6:16) (negative).
10. To imitate His good and upright ways (Deut. 28:9) (CCA6).

Torah

1. To honor the old and the wise (Lev. 19:32) (CCA17).
2. To learn Torah and to teach it (Deut. 6:7) (CCA14). See Torah.
3. To cleave to those who know Him (Deut. 10:20) (the Talmud states that cleaving to scholars is equivalent to cleaving to Him) (CCA16).
4. Not to add to the commandments of the Torah, whether in the Written Law or in its interpretation received by tradition (Deut. 13:1) (CCN159). See Torah.
5. Not to take away from the commandments of the Torah (Deut. 13:1) (CCN160). See Torah.
6. That every person shall write a scroll of the Torah for himself (Deut. 31:19) (CCA15). See Torah.

Signs and Symbols

1. To circumcise the male offspring (Gen. 17:12; Lev. 12:3) (CCA47) See Brit Milah: Circumcision.
2. To put tzitzit on the corners of clothing (Num. 15:38) (CCA10). See Tzitzit and Tallit.
3. To bind tefillin on the head (Deut. 6:8) (CCA9). See Tefillin.
4. To bind tefillin on the arm (Deut. 6:8) (CCA8). See Tefillin.
5. To affix the mezuzah to the doorposts and gates of your house (Deut. 6:9) (CCA12). See Mezuzah.

Prayer and Blessings

1. To pray to G-d (Ex. 23:25; Deut. 6:13) (according to the Talmud, the word "serve" in these verses refers to prayer) (CCA7). See Prayers and Blessings; Jewish Liturgy.
2. To read the Shema in the morning and at night (Deut. 6:7) (CCA11). See Jewish Liturgy.
3. To recite grace after meals (Deut. 8:10) (CCA13). See Birkat Ha-Mazon: Grace After Meals
4. Not to lay down a stone for worship (Lev. 26:1) (CCN161).

Love and Brotherhood

1. To love all human beings who are of the covenant (Lev. 19:18) (CCA60). See Love and Brotherhood.
2. Not to stand by idly when a human life is in danger (Lev. 19:16) (CCN82). See Love and Brotherhood.
3. Not to wrong any one in speech (Lev. 25:17) (CCN48). See Speech and Lashon Ha-Ra.
4. Not to carry tales (Lev. 19:16) (CCN77). See Speech and Lashon Ha-Ra.
5. Not to cherish hatred in one's heart (Lev. 19:17) (CCN78). See Love and Brotherhood.
6. Not to take revenge (Lev. 19:18) (CCN80).
7. Not to bear a grudge (Lev. 19:18) (CCN81).
8. Not to put any Jew to shame (Lev. 19:17) (CCN79).
9. Not to curse any other Israelite (Lev. 19:14) (by implication: if you may not curse those who cannot hear, you certainly may not curse those who can) (CCN45).
10. Not to give occasion to the simple-minded to stumble on the road (Lev. 19:14) (this includes doing anything that will cause another to sin) (CCN76).
11. To rebuke the sinner (Lev. 19:17) (CCA72).
12. To relieve a neighbor of his burden and help to unload his beast (Ex. 23:5) (CCA70). See Love and Brotherhood.
13. To assist in replacing the load upon a neighbor's beast (Deut. 22:4) (CCA71). See Love and Brotherhood.
14. Not to leave a beast, that has fallen down beneath its burden, unaided (Deut. 22:4) (CCN183). See Love and Brotherhood.

 

[Open Heart]

Until you read the actual Bible

Are you actually really and truly saying that honoring your father and mother is not part of the 613 commandments?

 

[BobRyan]

Are you actually really and truly saying that honoring your father and mother is not part of the 613 commandments?

I am saying it is not "the FIRST COMMANDMENT WITH A PROMISE" in the 613.

As we both know.

To find a distinct identifiable unit of Law with a specific order - in the actual Bible - where the 5th Commandment is "the FIRST COMMANDMENT WITH A PROMISE" -- there is only one unit of Law in the Bible that meets that criteria.

And we all know it.

 

[Open Heart]

I am saying it is not "the FIRST COMMANDMENT WITH A PROMISE" in the 613.

Yes, it is.

 

[BobRyan]

Eph 6
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3 so that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth.

Right. It's the first commandment (aka the first of the 613 commandments) with a promise. So?

Until you read the actual Bible

-- is it your claim that reading Exodus there is no promise or command until Exodus 20:12???
-- Is it your claim that there are no commands in the 613 in Genesis or Exodus that include a promise until Exodus 20:12????

You can't be serious.

Bible details matter.

=========== hint even the Jewish list of 613 does NOT show Exodus 20:12 to be the first command or the first command with a promise

Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

G-d

1. To know that G-d exists (Ex. 20:2; Deut. 5:6) (CCA1). See What Do Jews Believe?.
2. Not to entertain the idea that there is any god but the Eternal (Ex. 20:3) (CCN8). See What Do Jews Believe?.
3. Not to blaspheme (Ex. 22:27; in Christian texts, Ex. 22:28), the penalty for which is death (Lev. 24:16) (negative).
4. To hallow G-d's name (Lev. 22:32) (CCA5). See The Name of G-d.
5. Not to profane G-d's name (Lev . 22:32) (CCN155). See The Name of G-d.
6. To know that G-d is One, a complete Unity (Deut. 6:4) (CCA2). See What Do Jews Believe?.
7. To love G-d (Deut. 6:5) (CCA3). See What Do Jews Believe?.
8. To fear Him reverently (Deut. 6:13; 10:20) (CCA4).
9. Not to put the word of G-d to the test (Deut. 6:16) (negative).
10. To imitate His good and upright ways (Deut. 28:9) (CCA6).

Torah

1. To honor the old and the wise (Lev. 19:32) (CCA17).
2. To learn Torah and to teach it (Deut. 6:7) (CCA14). See Torah.
3. To cleave to those who know Him (Deut. 10:20) (the Talmud states that cleaving to scholars is equivalent to cleaving to Him) (CCA16).
4. Not to add to the commandments of the Torah, whether in the Written Law or in its interpretation received by tradition (Deut. 13:1) (CCN159). See Torah.
5. Not to take away from the commandments of the Torah (Deut. 13:1) (CCN160). See Torah.
6. That every person shall write a scroll of the Torah for himself (Deut. 31:19) (CCA15). See Torah.

Signs and Symbols

1. To circumcise the male offspring (Gen. 17:12; Lev. 12:3) (CCA47) See Brit Milah: Circumcision.
2. To put tzitzit on the corners of clothing (Num. 15:38) (CCA10). See Tzitzit and Tallit.
3. To bind tefillin on the head (Deut. 6:8) (CCA9). See Tefillin.
4. To bind tefillin on the arm (Deut. 6:8) (CCA8). See Tefillin.
5. To affix the mezuzah to the doorposts and gates of your house (Deut. 6:9) (CCA12). See Mezuzah.

Prayer and Blessings

1. To pray to G-d (Ex. 23:25; Deut. 6:13) (according to the Talmud, the word "serve" in these verses refers to prayer) (CCA7). See Prayers and Blessings; Jewish Liturgy.
2. To read the Shema in the morning and at night (Deut. 6:7) (CCA11). See Jewish Liturgy.
3. To recite grace after meals (Deut. 8:10) (CCA13). See Birkat Ha-Mazon: Grace After Meals
4. Not to lay down a stone for worship (Lev. 26:1) (CCN161).

Love and Brotherhood

1. To love all human beings who are of the covenant (Lev. 19:18) (CCA60). See Love and Brotherhood.
2. Not to stand by idly when a human life is in danger (Lev. 19:16) (CCN82). See Love and Brotherhood.
3. Not to wrong any one in speech (Lev. 25:17) (CCN48). See Speech and Lashon Ha-Ra.
4. Not to carry tales (Lev. 19:16) (CCN77). See Speech and Lashon Ha-Ra.
5. Not to cherish hatred in one's heart (Lev. 19:17) (CCN78). See Love and Brotherhood.
6. Not to take revenge (Lev. 19:18) (CCN80).
7. Not to bear a grudge (Lev. 19:18) (CCN81).
8. Not to put any Jew to shame (Lev. 19:17) (CCN79).
9. Not to curse any other Israelite (Lev. 19:14) (by implication: if you may not curse those who cannot hear, you certainly may not curse those who can) (CCN45).
10. Not to give occasion to the simple-minded to stumble on the road (Lev. 19:14) (this includes doing anything that will cause another to sin) (CCN76).
11. To rebuke the sinner (Lev. 19:17) (CCA72).
12. To relieve a neighbor of his burden and help to unload his beast (Ex. 23:5) (CCA70). See Love and Brotherhood.
13. To assist in replacing the load upon a neighbor's beast (Deut. 22:4) (CCA71). See Love and Brotherhood.
14. Not to leave a beast, that has fallen down beneath its burden, unaided (Deut. 22:4) (CCN183). See Love and Brotherhood.

Are you actually really and truly saying that honoring your father and mother is not part of the 613 commandments?

I am saying it is not "the FIRST COMMANDMENT WITH A PROMISE" in the 613.

As we both know.

To find a distinct identifiable unit of Law with a specific order - in the actual Bible - where the 5th Commandment is "the FIRST COMMANDMENT WITH A PROMISE" -- there is only one unit of Law in the Bible that meets that criteria.

And we all know it.

Yes, it is.

Your post above provides less-than-compelling reason to argue its way against the facts as posted.

Care to be objective??

I don't have to give reasons. .

I do.

Because the purpose of the thread is to provide the most compelling statement for one's given POV.

 

[Open Heart]

Your post above provides less-than-compelling reason to argue its way against the facts as posted.

I don't have to give reasons. We disagree on the facts, which we must agree upon before we can even engage in a debate. If we can't agree on the facts, it is absolutely worthless to continue with the discussion, as we are talking apples and oranges.

The ten commandments are part of the 613, therefore any one commandment of the 10 is part of the 613. If you claim otherwise, all I can reply is that you don't know the first thing about Judaism.

BTW, it is senseless to copy endless posts of the argument going back who knows how long. All you really need is your statement and my answer to understand what your post is about.

 

[BobRyan]

I don't have to give reasons. .

I don't have to give reasons. We disagree on the facts, which we must agree upon before we can even engage in a debate.

Hence - I point to facts so obvious even your own RCC authorities affirm them.

This is "the easy part".

 

[BobRyan]

The ten commandments are part of the 613, therefore any one commandment of the 10 is part of the 613.

Interesting - but does not address the point raised by Paul in Ephesians 6:2. (as pointed out in detail - in my post above)

If you don't have an answer for it - that is fine.

 

[Open Heart]

Hence - I point to facts so obvious even your own RCC authorities affirm them.

This is "the easy part".

I gave the facts and the explanation of them. How about you?

 

[Open Heart]

Interesting - but does not address the point raised by Paul in Ephesians 6:2. (as pointed out in detail - in my post above)

If you don't have an answer for it - that is fine.

Paul's point has nothing to do with our own little argument. You are arguing that Paul is referring to the 10 commandments. I'm saying he is referring to the 613. I'm stating that Judaism, and by extension the Early Church, considers the ten part of the 613, and does not refer to the 10 unless it explicitly states that it is referring to the ten. IOW if it just says "the Law" or "the commandments" it is referring to the 613. If Paul were referring to the ten, he would have said, "The only one of the ten commandments to include a promise." He wouldn't have said, "The first," since there is no second one among the ten.

 

[BobRyan]

Are you actually really and truly saying that honoring your father and mother is not part of the 613 commandments?

I am saying it is not "the FIRST COMMANDMENT WITH A PROMISE" in the 613.

As we both know.

To find a distinct identifiable unit of Law with a specific order - in the actual Bible - where the 5th Commandment is "the FIRST COMMANDMENT WITH A PROMISE" -- there is only one unit of Law in the Bible that meets that criteria.

And we all know it.

Yes, it is.

Your post above provides less-than-compelling reason to argue its way against the facts as posted.

Care to be objective??

I don't have to give reasons. .

I do.

Because the purpose of the thread is to provide the most compelling statement for one's given POV.

The ten commandments are part of the 613, therefore any one commandment of the 10 is part of the 613.

Interesting - but does not address the point raised by Paul in Ephesians 6:2. (as pointed out in detail - in my post above)

If you don't have an answer for it - that is fine.

Paul's point has nothing to do with our own little argument.

It has to do with the 5th commandment being "the first Commandment WITH A promise" in that still-valid unit-of-TEN where that is exactly what we find.

And we all know it.

You are arguing that Paul is referring to the 10 commandments. I'm saying he is referring to the 613.

I think we are all clear on that point

 

[BobRyan]

h list of 613 does NOT show Exodus 20:12 to be the first command or the first command with a promise

Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

G-d

1. To know that G-d exists (Ex. 20:2; Deut. 5:6) (CCA1). See What Do Jews Believe?.
2. Not to entertain the idea that there is any god but the Eternal (Ex. 20:3) (CCN8). See What Do Jews Believe?.
3. Not to blaspheme (Ex. 22:27; in Christian texts, Ex. 22:28), the penalty for which is death (Lev. 24:16) (negative).
4. To hallow G-d's name (Lev. 22:32) (CCA5). See The Name of G-d.
5. Not to profane G-d's name (Lev . 22:32) (CCN155). See The Name of G-d.
6. To know that G-d is One, a complete Unity (Deut. 6:4) (CCA2). See What Do Jews Believe?.
7. To love G-d (Deut. 6:5) (CCA3). See What Do Jews Believe?.
8. To fear Him reverently (Deut. 6:13; 10:20) (CCA4).
9. Not to put the word of G-d to the test (Deut. 6:16) (negative).
10. To imitate His good and upright ways (Deut. 28:9) (CCA6).

Torah

1. To honor the old and the wise (Lev. 19:32) (CCA17).
2. To learn Torah and to teach it (Deut. 6:7) (CCA14). See Torah.
3. To cleave to those who know Him (Deut. 10:20) (the Talmud states that cleaving to scholars is equivalent to cleaving to Him) (CCA16).
4. Not to add to the commandments of the Torah, whether in the Written Law or in its interpretation received by tradition (Deut. 13:1) (CCN159). See Torah.
5. Not to take away from the commandments of the Torah (Deut. 13:1) (CCN160). See Torah.
6. That every person shall write a scroll of the Torah for himself (Deut. 31:19) (CCA15). See Torah.

Signs and Symbols

1. To circumcise the male offspring (Gen. 17:12; Lev. 12:3) (CCA47) See Brit Milah: Circumcision.
2. To put tzitzit on the corners of clothing (Num. 15:38) (CCA10). See Tzitzit and Tallit.
3. To bind tefillin on the head (Deut. 6:8) (CCA9). See Tefillin.
4. To bind tefillin on the arm (Deut. 6:8) (CCA8). See Tefillin.
5. To affix the mezuzah to the doorposts and gates of your house (Deut. 6:9) (CCA12). See Mezuzah.

Prayer and Blessings

1. To pray to G-d (Ex. 23:25; Deut. 6:13) (according to the Talmud, the word "serve" in these verses refers to prayer) (CCA7). See Prayers and Blessings; Jewish Liturgy.
2. To read the Shema in the morning and at night (Deut. 6:7) (CCA11). See Jewish Liturgy.
3. To recite grace after meals (Deut. 8:10) (CCA13). See Birkat Ha-Mazon: Grace After Meals
4. Not to lay down a stone for worship (Lev. 26:1) (CCN161).

Love and Brotherhood

1. To love all human beings who are of the covenant (Lev. 19:18) (CCA60). See Love and Brotherhood.
2. Not to stand by idly when a human life is in danger (Lev. 19:16) (CCN82). See Love and Brotherhood.
3. Not to wrong any one in speech (Lev. 25:17) (CCN48). See Speech and Lashon Ha-Ra.
4. Not to carry tales (Lev. 19:16) (CCN77). See Speech and Lashon Ha-Ra.
5. Not to cherish hatred in one's heart (Lev. 19:17) (CCN78). See Love and Brotherhood.
6. Not to take revenge (Lev. 19:18) (CCN80).
7. Not to bear a grudge (Lev. 19:18) (CCN81).
8. Not to put any Jew to shame (Lev. 19:17) (CCN79).
9. Not to curse any other Israelite (Lev. 19:14) (by implication: if you may not curse those who cannot hear, you certainly may not curse those who can) (CCN45).
10. Not to give occasion to the simple-minded to stumble on the road (Lev. 19:14) (this includes doing anything that will cause another to sin) (CCN76).
11. To rebuke the sinner (Lev. 19:17) (CCA72).
12. To relieve a neighbor of his burden and help to unload his beast (Ex. 23:5) (CCA70). See Love and Brotherhood.
13. To assist in replacing the load upon a neighbor's beast (Deut. 22:4) (CCA71). See Love and Brotherhood.
14. Not to leave a beast, that has fallen down beneath its burden, unaided (Deut. 22:4) (CCN183). See Love and Brotherhood.

I am saying it is not "the FIRST COMMANDMENT WITH A PROMISE" in the 613.

As we both know.

To find a distinct identifiable unit of Law with a specific order - in the actual Bible - where the 5th Commandment is "the FIRST COMMANDMENT WITH A PROMISE" -- there is only one unit of Law in the Bible that meets that criteria.

And we all know it.

I'm stating that Judaism, and by extension the Early Church, considers the ten part of the 613, and does not refer to the 10 unless it explicitly states that it is referring to the ten. .

They are of course free to do that - but doing so would not make 5th commandment "the first commandment in the 613 with a promise" unless you have a statement from the NT or OT text saying that the Ten Commandments are the first 10 of the 613.

Which of course... you do not.

 

[Open Heart]

h list of 613 does NOT show Exodus 20:12 to be the first command or the first command with a promise

Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

The 613 as Maimondides organized them are not listed in the order they were given. They are organized by topic. Your point is void.

 

[BobRyan]

The 613 as Maimondides organized them are not listed in the order they were given. They are organized by topic.

Making it impossible to argue that the 5th commandment is the first commandment with a promise within the 613 tradition --> at the time of Paul <-- or... ever.

The point remains.

Obviously

 

[Open Heart]

Making it impossible to argue that the 5th commandment is the first commandment with a promise within the 613 tradition --> at the time of Paul <-- or... ever.

The point remains.

Obviously

No it doesn't at all. You are talking apples and oranges. The ten commandements are the first 10 given of the 613. That means honor your father and mother is the first commandment of the 613 to have a promise attached.

 

[BobRyan]

What is encouraging is that the span from Acts 21-28 gives a great view of how Paul declared his own practice "under oath" and before both Jews and gentiles starting with clarification of his teaching for his fellow Messianic Jews.



Acts 21
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law

Acts 24
14But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets


Acts 25
8 while he answered for himself, &#8220;Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all.;


Acts 26
Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come; 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles;

Acts 28
17 And it came to pass after three days that Paul called the leaders of the Jews together. So when they had come together, he said to them: Men and brethren, though I have done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers, yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans,... I have called for you, to see you and speak with you, because for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
...
23 So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening

Wow, what a topic.

I do not believe that Sha'ul stopped being a Pharisee or Jewish or anything else other than lost when he accepted Yeshua as Messiah.
.

Good point - as we see in the examples above.

 

[BobRyan]

The 613 as Maimondides organized them are not listed in the order they were given. They are organized by topic.

Making it impossible to argue that the 5th commandment is the first commandment with a promise within the 613 tradition --> at the time of Paul <-- or... ever.

The point remains.

Obviously

No it doesn't at all.

yes it does.

The ten commandments are the first 10 given of the 613.

I am happy to hear that sort of speculation - where does Paul make such a claim??