LDS ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE!

[Rescued One]

Bummer. God saw fit to depict them with wings for the ark of the covenant. If God wants them to have wings---who is anybody to say they don't??

When I left, I felt really sad about my angel.

 

[Jane_Doe]

And I have been saying that when they are supposedly in this preexisting condition--they are not in sin or they could not be with God. To have to come down here, where it is obvious that everyone does sin, makes no sense.

Learning is important.
Again, for LDS the endpoint of God's plan for us is not to just have us be sitting around looking at Him, but rather to completely share/embody His goodness.

There are a total of 57 verses that mention the cherubim, hardly sounds metaphorical. only about 2 for the seraphim.

I respect your belief to interpret these verses literal. I and other LDS do not.

I ask again---do you not believe the verses that state we are made lower than the angels and that Jesus was made lower than the angels when He became human??

I do believe that verse. But not in the interpretation that it's talking about different species. Rather, about different levels of glory. Manifested glory is something that changes through time (Christ being an obvious example of this).

 

[mmksparbud]

Methodists, SDAs, Baptists, Presbyterians, Greek Orthodox, and Roman Catholics, reject Mormonism and Joseph Smith so, according to Mormonism, aren't followers of Christ.

"We must have faith in the mission of Joseph Smith. Because the world had lapsed into spiritual darkness, changed the ordinances and broken the everlasting covenant, the Church of Jesus Christ had to be brought again from the heavens. Where there is no faith in these truths there is no faith in Jesus Christ who sent the Prophet Joseph Smith. This knowledge is vital to our eternal salvation."
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 2:303

Yes, we are all corrupt-along with the bible.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Yes, we are all corrupt-along with the bible.

Mmksparbud, I just said the opposite of that. And I'm trying really hard to be loving and respectful. I'm asking for you to please help me out in that effort.

 

[mmksparbud]

Learning is important.
Again, for LDS the endpoint of God's plan for us is not to just have us be sitting around looking at Him, but rather to completely share/embody His goodness.

No better place to learn that than in the very presence of God. Certainly not down here where Satan is the prince of this world.

I respect your belief to interpret these verses literal. I and other LDS do not.

Obviously. Just another notch on the belt of JS away from the truths of God. If God wants to depict cherubim on the ark of the covenant--I'd say He has the right to do so---I realize JS Doesn't think so.

I do believe that verse. But not in the interpretation that it's talking about different species. Rather, about different levels of glory. Manifested glory is something that changes through time (Christ being an obvious example of this).

It doesn't say anything about levels of glory. It says created lower.

 

[mmksparbud]

Mmksparbud, I just said the opposite of that. And I'm trying really hard to be loving and respectful. I'm asking for you to please help me out in that effort.

Don't try so hard. I have very thick skin. JS said the bible was corrupt. We believe in the bible as the word of God. If the bible is corrupt, than we have corrupt believes. We happen to think that line of thought is ---corrupt.

 

[Rescued One]

Christians are being sanctified and being conformed to the holy image (not plastic surgery) of Christ. We don't have a teaching that says we'll be sitting around looking at God.

 

[Jane_Doe]

JS said the bible was corrupt.

Incorrect.

We believe in the bible as the word of God.

As do LDS folks.

We happen to think that line of thought is ---corrupt.

Do you REALLY WANT me to think of you as a Christ hating person? That "Christian" = devil worshiper?
Do you want me think that?

Cause what I believe is the exact opposite from that. I've seen the love of Christ in other Christian's eyes to many times to remotely deny it.

 

[mmksparbud]

Joseph Smith—History

Chapter 1
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

1 Nephi 13:26: "And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away."
"I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book," (History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 461).

Do you REALLY WANT me to think of you as a Christ hating person? That "Christian" = devil worshiper?

Cause that's not remotely what I believe. Do you want me think that?

I can't help what you think. If you want to think I hate Christ, well, you should be able to easily quote where I said such a thing. Why you should even ask such a question is beyond me.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Joseph Smith—History

Chapter 1
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

1 Nephi 13:26: "And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away."
"I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book," (History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 461).

And none of those talk about the Bible being corrupt. Creeds, yes. Bible, no.

I can't help what you think. If you want to think I hate Christ, well, you should be able to easily quote where I said such a thing. Why you should even ask such a question is beyond me.

That wasn't the question I asked.

 

[mmksparbud]

And none of those talk about the Bible being corrupt. Creeds, yes. Bible, no.

That wasn't the question I asked.

"I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book," (History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 461).

Joseph Smith also declared, "Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors" (T. of P.J.S., p. 327). And LDS Apostle Mark E. Peterson said, "Many insertions were made, some of them 'slanted' for selfish purposes, while at times deliberate falsifications and fabrications were perpetrated" (As Translated Correctly, p. 4).

LDS Apostle Orson Pratt also wrote:

If it be admitted that the apostles and evangelists did write the books of the New Testament, that does not prove of itself that they were divinely inspired at the time they wrote.... Add all this imperfection to the uncertainty of the translation, and who, IN HIS RIGHT MIND could for one moment suppose the Bible in its present form to be a perfect guide? Who knows that even one verse of the Bible has escaped pollution, so as to convey the same sense now that it did in the original? (Divine Authority of the Book of Mormon, pp. 45, 47; read all of this pamphlet for a detailed attack upon the Bible).

"I told the brethren that the B. of M. was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts than by any other book" (T. of P.J.S., p. 194).



Isa_55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Of course--this was all said before the Dead Sea scrolls were discovered. It's been note4d here many times---Those dated from before Christ. And they proved-, that the OT was literally word for word nearly identical to what we have today--which is what Jesus--the disciples and all the first Christians had. The OT was what all the first Christians were converted by for there was no NT yet. It was what Jesus Himself read and believed and quoted. It what the NT meant when it said--
2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Rom_1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
2Ti_3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

The believes of JS are not even hinted at in the OT--they are nit mentioned by Jesus at all, He never held any of his believes. Even if you should throw out the NT---Mormon believes are not upheld. It is not the bible that is corrupted and wrong and mistranslated--it is these so called inspired works of JS---none are true, no are from God--it can not be stated otherwise.

That wasn't the question I asked.

Yes, it was.

Do you REALLY WANT me to think of you as a Christ hating person? That "Christian" = devil worshiper?
Do you want me think that?

My answer still holds.

I can't help what you think. If you want to think I hate Christ, well, you should be able to easily quote where I said such a thing. Why you should even ask such a question is beyond me.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Why you should even ask such a question is beyond me.

Because you seem eager to believe "Mormons think the Bible is corrupt and SDA are devil worshipers". I keep telling you that is false, and you keep going to saying to the jest "No, you really do think I'm a devil worshiper" and grabbing quotes from anti-Mormon that don't actually support your argument.

Additionally, when I ask you to show the same respect I'm showing you (following to forum rules) you have refused. It means like you want to antagonize me.

So yes, I am getting the impression you WANT me to think that you are some devil-worshipper.

 

[mmksparbud]

Because you seem eager to believe "Mormons think the Bible is corrupt and SDA are devil worshipers". I keep telling you that is false, and you keep going to saying to the jest "No, you really do think I'm a devil worshiper" and grabbing quotes from anti-Mormon that don't actually support your argument.

Additionally, when I ask you to show the same respect I'm showing you (following to forum rules) you have refused. It means like you want to antagonize me.

So yes, I am getting the impression you WANT me to think that you are some devil-worshipper.

Where the blazes you got SDA are devil worshippers from --I don't know---I never said it as I am SDA, I can only assume it comes from within you for it has come from no one else. I am quoting what the Mormon believe about the bible is---which is that the bible is not accurate, written by corrupt and uninspired people and that the BOM and other JS writings are far more accurate. That is not coming from me---those are quotes from your own prophets.
You can say that is not true--but the quotes are there, deny all you want. I am not being rude---I state things as they are. I can not say that JS is inspired and his books are from God and be polite about something that is so very, very wrong and against God and His word. It is almost impossible to be truly polite when all your writings declare that the bible is wrong, that it is not written by inspired people of God, that everyone is a bunch of fools for following it -- please do not try to deny these facts for it is in black and white and are proven to be accurate. I never quoted any anti-Mormon sites, I quote only from your own works from the lds.com site. I never called you a devil worshipper, I never said anything about devil worshippers at all--the words were never mentioned by anyone else wither.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Where the blazes you got SDA are devil worshippers from --I don't know---I never said it as I am SDA, I can only assume it comes from within you for it has come from no one else. I am quoting what the Mormon believe about the bible is---which is that the bible is not accurate, written by corrupt and uninspired people and that the BOM and other JS writings are far more accurate. That is not coming from me---those are quotes from your own prophets.
You can say that is not true--but the quotes are there, deny all you want. I am not being rude---I state things as they are. I can not say that JS is inspired and his books are from God and be polite about something that is so very, very wrong and against God and His word. It is almost impossible to be truly polite when all your writings declare that the bible is wrong, that it is not written by inspired people of God, that everyone is a bunch of fools for following it -- please do not try to deny these facts for it is in black and white and are proven to be accurate. I never called you a devil worshipper, I never said anything about devil worshippers at all--the words were never mentioned by anyone else wither.

Stating the obvious: I do NOT believe that you are devil-worshiper. I believe quite the opposite: that you are loving disciple of Christ.

It is almost impossible to be truly polite when all your writings declare that the bible is wrong, that it is not written by inspired people of God, that everyone is a bunch of fools for following it

None of this quote is true. It is ALL false.

That's what I trying to tell you over and over again. They anti-Mormon site which is providing you those quotes is lying to you. Example: the JS History quote which talks about the creeds being corrupt is not talking about the Bible at all. But the anti-Mormon site will lie to you and spin "this means Mormons believe the Bible is false and it's adherents are corrupt".

That's what I keep telling you.

 

[mmksparbud]

Stating the obvious: I do NOT believe that you are devil-worshiper. I believe quite the opposite: that you are loving disciple of Christ.

None of this quote is true. It is ALL false.

That's what I trying to tell you over and over again. They anti-Mormon site which is providing you those quotes is lying to you. Example: the JS History quote which talks about the creeds being corrupt is not talking about the Bible at all. But the anti-Mormon site will lie to you and spin "this means Mormons believe the Bible is false and it's adherents are corrupt".

That's what I keep telling you.

I keep telling you that I am not quoting from anti-Mormon sites!! I am quoting from your own Mormon books! I do not usually quote from anti-Mormon sites. I have gone to them to find what they say, they usually quote from a Mormon book. I go to that book to make sure that what they are saying is accurate, but it is the Mormon book, from the lds.com site that I quote. If the anti-Mormon site is accurately quoting a Moron book, I will at times just post the quote that contains the name of the book they quoted from so it can be checked by others. Maybe, like so many others--you do not actually know what it is your prophets have truly said.
I am very aware of what anti-sites can do--when I first came on here, being SDA, I was fair game and there were no end to the misquotes from "anti" sites that I had to correct. I was called every name in the book--(except SDA!) Statements they made were far worse than anything I have ever said to anyone--I've only reported those who used porn (a few got away with posting stuff from anti-Christians that were horrible. --not just to an SDA). I've never reported anhything else said against me or my faith. I've developed a tough skin and I understand that many think we are at the same level as the worst of so called heretics. There usually is a thread that is very anti-SDA at some point on here.
You just keep saying these things are not true without even checking the books that the quotes come from.

Orson Pratt, 1811-1881
One of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
DIVINE AUTHENTICITY OF THE BOOK OF MORMON NUMBERS 1-3 Liverpool, 1850

"The Book of Mormon claims to be a divinely inspired record, written by a succession of prophets who inhabited ancient America. It professes to be revealed to the present generation for the salvation of all who will receive it, and for the overthrow and damnation of all nations who reject it.

This book must be either true or false. If true, it is one of the most important messages ever sent from God to man, affecting both the temporal and eternal interests of every people under heaven to the same extent and in the same degree that the message of Noah affected the inhabitants of the old world. If false, it is one of the most cunning, wicked, bold, deep-laid impositions ever palmed upon the world, calculated to deceive and ruin millions who will sincerely receive it as the word of God, and will suppose themselves securely built upon the rock of truth until they are plunged with their families into hopeless despair. The nature of the message in the Book of Mormon is such, that if true, no one can possibly be saved and reject it; if false, no one can possibly be saved and receive it. Therefore, every soul in all the world is equally interested in ascertaining its truth or falsity."

I happen to think it is definitely false.


History of the church vol 6 page 408

"God is in the still small voice. In all these affidavits, indictments, it is all of the devil—all corruption. Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet. You know my daily walk and conversation. I am in the bosom of a virtuous and good people. How I do love to hear the wolves howl! When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go. For the last three years I have a record of all my acts and proceedings, for I have kept several good, faithful, and efficient clerks in constant employ: they have accompanied me everywhere, and carefully kept my history, and they have written down what I have done, where I have been, and what I have said; therefore my enemies cannot charge me with any day, time, or place, but what I have written testimony to prove my actions; and my enemies cannot prove anything against me. They have got wonderful things in the land of Ham. I think the grand jury have strained at a gnat and swallowed the camel."

Sorry--but this is nothing but arrogance.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I keep telling you that I am not quoting from anti-Mormon sites!! I am quoting from your own Mormon books!

Your quoting from this site: http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/mclaims3.htm
This site is an anti-Mormon site that cherry picked up these quotes and lying act as if they have any authority (vast majority don't, and many actually have problems with them). It is also lying as to taking out of proper context.

I am very aware of what anti-sites can do--when I first came on here, being SDA, I was fair game and there were no end to the misquotes from "anti" sites that I had to correct. I was called every name in the book--(except SDA!) Statements they made were far worse than anything I have ever said to anyone--I've only reported those who used porn (a few got away with posting stuff from anti-Christians that were horrible. --not just to an SDA). I've never reported anhything else said against me or my faith. I've developed a tough skin and I understand that many think we are at the same level as the worst of so called heretics. There usually is a thread that is very anti-SDA at some point on here.

I'm sorry you had to go through that. My sympathies.

 

[mmksparbud]

Your quoting from this site: http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/mclaims3.htm
This site is an anti-Mormon site that cherry picked up these quotes and lying act as if they have any authority (vast majority don't, and many actually have problems with them). It is also lying as to taking out of proper context.

I'm sorry you had to go through that. My sympathies.

If you follow to the actual book itself--it is an accurate quote. Sometimes, the only way to find where something is, is to go to an anti site, find where the quote comes from, then go to the book they state so you can get the whole thing.

 

[Jane_Doe]

If you follow to the actual book itself--it is an accurate quote.

Yes, they successfully copied and pasted. That doesn't mean they are being truthful, only that they can hit Crtl+C Crtl+V correctly.

Sometimes, the only way to find where something is, is to go to an anti site, find where the quote comes from, then go to the book they state so you can get the whole thing.

Yes, like when it's a book that carries no authority and isn't actually read by LDS, and plays zero part in LDS discourse. You can only find those quotes from anti-sites that cherry pick quote that quote, don't bother to include the whole text, and don't bother to tell you "hey this is a nothing book that doesn't actually play a part in the LDS faith".

 

[mmksparbud]

Yes, they successfully copied and pasted. That doesn't mean they are being truthful, only that they can hit Crtl+C Crtl+V correctly.

Yes, like when it's a book that carries no authority and isn't actually read by LDS, and plays zero part in LDS discourse. You can only find those quotes from anti-sites that cherry pick quote that quote, don't bother to include the whole text, and don't bother to tell you "hey this is a nothing book that doesn't actually play a part in the LDS faith".

Yes---I know the sentence---It is not doctrinal---never mind that it states exactly what is believed.
And the quote about how great Joseph Smith is---comes from Joseph Smith himself--I guess you consider History of the Church to also be a nothing book?

 

[Jane_Doe]

Yes---I know the sentence---It is not doctrinal---never mind that it states exactly what is believed.

Except it's not! How many times do I have to tell you that?

And the quote about how great Joseph Smith is---comes from Joseph Smith himself--I guess you consider History of the Church to also be a nothing book?

It carries zero doctrinal authority. In fact, you'd find many LDS (myself included) that would flat out say "JS is sinning here, specifically the sin of pride". LDS don't believe that everything JS did was perfect- in fact that are many instances he got things blatantly wrong. He was not perfect Jesus Christ.

That's ACTUAL Mormon beliefs.