LDS ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE!

[Rescued One]

This is anti-biblical and therefore not true:

"Celestial marriage is the crowning ordinance of the gospel of Jesus Christ."
Chapter 15: Eternal Marriage


The Bible Warns us:
Galatians 1
1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead)
2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[Ironhold]

Do you have anything to back up your assertion that this isn't true theology, or just blanket condemnation for something you personally disagree with?

 

[BigDaddy4]

Do you have anything to back up your assertion that this isn't true theology, or just blanket condemnation for something you personally disagree with?

How about the 27 books of the New Testament? Would that be enough for you? Everywhere the gospel is mentioned in the New Testament, "celestial marriage" is not.

 

[Peter1000]

This is anti-biblical and therefore not true:

"Celestial marriage is the crowning ordinance of the gospel of Jesus Christ."
Chapter 15: Eternal Marriage


The Bible Warns us:
Galatians 1
1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead)
2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The Lord is an eternal being. You and I are eternal beings. The Lord does things that last for eternity. Marriage in the Lord is an eternal principle.

For as God says:
1 Corinthians 11:11-12King James Version (KJV)
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

Does this saying of God have a time frame mentioned? No.

So I conclude that a marriage (in the Lord) will last for eternity. It is a strong position biblically.

 

[Ironhold]

How about the 27 books of the New Testament? Would that be enough for you? Everywhere the gospel is mentioned in the New Testament, "celestial marriage" is not.

Again, you're just going the "blanket condemnation" route, which is inadequate in a proper academic debate.

 

[Peter1000]

How about the 27 books of the New Testament? Would that be enough for you? Everywhere the gospel is mentioned in the New Testament, "celestial marriage" is not.

It is part of the meat that Paul could not give to the Corinthians because they would not receive it, read:
1 Corinthians 3:2King James Version (KJV)
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Sorry, Paul tried, but they would not have accepted it then, and you do not accept it now, what has changed?

 

[Rescued One]

Humans were created by God. We haven't existed in eternity past. That is a major difference between Mormonism and Christianity.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Again, you're just going the "blanket condemnation" route, which is inadequate in a proper academic debate.

Says a non-authority on "proper academic debate". How about evidence that it actually exists? She is quoting your church's material.

 

[BigDaddy4]

It is part of the meat that Paul could not give to the Corinthians because they would not receive it, read:
1 Corinthians 3:2King James Version (KJV)
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Sorry, Paul tried, but they would not have accepted it then, and you do not accept it now, what has changed?

That's just your unsubstantiated opinion. Nothing Scriptural to back up the claim of your church as quoted in the OP.

 

[Peter1000]

That's just your unsubstantiated opinion. Nothing Scriptural to back up the claim of your church as quoted in the OP.

You have to tell Paul that there is nothing to substantiate his statement, of course he is dead so it will be hard to ask him what meat he would have delivered to the NT saints had they been responsive to him. Paul is the one that said it, not I.

 

[Rescued One]

1 Cornthians 7
32But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: 33But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife. 34There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. 35And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.

I have so much more time for the Lord now that I'm a widow.

 

[Rescued One]

You have to tell Paul that there is nothing to substantiate his statement, of course he is dead so it will be hard to ask him what meat he would have delivered to the NT saints had they been responsive to him. Paul is the one that said it, not I.

A mature Christian realizes that the meat is the maturity in Christ. It involves walking the walk and producing the fruit.

1 Corinthians 3
1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

 

[BigDaddy4]

You have to tell Paul that there is nothing to substantiate his statement, of course he is dead so it will be hard to ask him what meat he would have delivered to the NT saints had they been responsive to him. Paul is the one that said it, not I.

You have no substantiation that Paul was talking about celestial marriage. That's your false assertion with no Scripture to support. Paul doesn't even get into speaking about marriage until 4 chapters later. Trying to make Scripture say something it doesn't say is just foolish.

 

[Peter1000]

A mature Christian realizes that the meat is the maturity in Christ. It involves walking the walk and producing the fruit.

1 Corinthians 3
1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

There is nothing more spiritual than for a husband and wife to commit to the Lord that they will be faithful to each other in the Lord. That they will live the gospel to the fullest in faith, and receive grace upon grace as their lives mature in Christ. Nothing more spiritual than that, and that is the centerpiece of an eternal marriage vow, Christ-centered marriage vow.

Paul could not present the meat of the gospel because these men were carnal and envious, and full of divisions and strife. Paul even said it would get worse when he left. He said men would come in among them, and not spare the flock.
(is that a flock of sheep??? Is Paul saying the flock of sheep will not be spared???)
Well read it:
Acts 20:28-30King James Version (KJV)
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Yes, it is the sheep that will lose their way because of bad shepherds.

This is the very reason that Paul could not give the NT church the meat of the gospel. He knew that when he left, the apostasy would move forward quickly.
So no meat, just milk.

 

[Peter1000]

You have no substantiation that Paul was talking about celestial marriage. That's your false assertion with no Scripture to support. Paul doesn't even get into speaking about marriage until 4 chapters later. Trying to make Scripture say something it doesn't say is just foolish.

I can tell you what I believe the meat is as well as you tell me what you think the meat is that Paul was not able to preach or teach. It certainly implies a higher level of Christian living. As I said to Phoebe Ann there is nothing more spiritual and on a higher level of Christian living than for a husand and his wife to commit to each other that they will be faithful to each other in the Lord, and they will commit to live the fullness of the gospel and bring forth fruit in the KOH on earth. To commit to an eternal Christ-centered marriage and making that a vow they make to God, who has said that the man is not to be without the woman and the woman without the man, with no end time specified, but eternal.

 

[Rescued One]

There is nothing more spiritual than for a husband and wife to commit to the Lord that they will be faithful to each other in the Lord. That they will live the gospel to the fullest in faith, and receive grace upon grace as their lives mature in Christ. Nothing more spiritual than that, and that is the centerpiece of an eternal marriage vow, Christ-centered marriage vow.

Paul could not present the meat of the gospel because these men were carnal and envious, and full of divisions and strife. Paul even said it would get worse when he left. He said men would come in among them, and not spare the flock.
(is that a flock of sheep??? Is Paul saying the flock of sheep will not be spared???)
Well read it:
Acts 20:28-30King James Version (KJV)
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Yes, it is the sheep that will lose their way because of bad shepherds.

This is the very reason that Paul could not give the NT church the meat of the gospel. He knew that when he left, the apostasy would move forward quickly.
So no meat, just milk.

No, meat is what mature Christians have. They are those who understand how to live the gospel of Christ. They are walking in the light.

Jesus' sheep don't follow strangers.

John 10
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

There are others in the flock who will follow strangers. They don't belong to Jesus.

1 John 2
18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 20But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

 

[Rescued One]

[QUO
TE="Peter1000, post: 71987394, member: 382212"]I can tell you what I believe the meat is as well as you tell me what you think the meat is that Paul was not able to preach or teach. It certainly implies a higher level of Christian living. As I said to Phoebe Ann there is nothing more spiritual and on a higher level of Christian living than for a husand and his wife to commit to each other that they will be faithful to each other in the Lord, and they will commit to live the fullness of the gospel and bring forth fruit in the KOH on earth. To commit to an eternal Christ-centered marriage and making that a vow they make to God, who has said that the man is not to be without the woman and the woman without the man, with no end time specified, but eternal.[/QUOTE]

That teaching contradicts what Jesus taught. And it detracts from the awesome worship of God. There never was a marriage for time and eternity. The Father is not married!

 

[Peter1000]

1 Cornthians 7
32But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: 33But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife. 34There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. 35And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.

I have so much more time for the Lord now that I'm a widow.

Paul says that that is a good thing. I agree with him as long as the widow uses that time wisely. There is no indication from our talks that you are not using your time wisely, so for you it is a good thing. Keep up the good work.

I will say this though. Between the time you die, and the end of the millenium, if you want to be married to your husband for all eternity, you will have that opportunity. But when the millenium is over and the last resurrection takes place and the judgment is completed, you will not have the opportunity to marry. All that remain single after the judgment will remain single throughout eternity.
Something to think about.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I can tell you what I believe the meat is as well as you tell me what you think the meat is that Paul was not able to preach or teach. It certainly implies a higher level of Christian living. As I said to Phoebe Ann there is nothing more spiritual and on a higher level of Christian living than for a husand and his wife to commit to each other that they will be faithful to each other in the Lord, and they will commit to live the fullness of the gospel and bring forth fruit in the KOH on earth. To commit to an eternal Christ-centered marriage and making that a vow they make to God, who has said that the man is not to be without the woman and the woman without the man, with no end time specified, but eternal.

You can believe whatever you want. It just goes against scripture. Consider this, Jesus said the two greatest commandments were to love God and love your neighbor. No mention of marriage there.

In addition in Matthew 5:43-48 says (bold mine):
43“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbori and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Loving someone who loves you, as in a marriage, is easy. Jesus compares that to tax collectors and pagans - two groups of people that were not held in high regard at the time. That should tell you something.

And oh by the way, notice verse 48 about being perfect. This is a verse that I see commonly misused by the lds that one needs to follow all the made up lds commands so blessings or highest exaltations or whatever else can be achieved. In actuality, it is talking about being perfect in love, for everyone, enemies included.

Furthermore, Paul in 1 Cor 7 has much to say about marriage, including that marriage actually takes away from serving the Lord in verses 32-35:

32I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.

So, you can continue in your beliefs, but on this matter, they contradict what Scripture actually says. If this is being taught by the lds, shame on them!

 

[Peter1000]

No, meat is what mature Christians have. They are those who understand how to live the gospel of Christ. They are walking in the light.

Since Paul didn't preach the meat, we are not sure what the meat is, but usually the milk would be the easier parts of the gospel to understand and follow, and the meat is a higher level of the gospel, having to do with knowledge and living a higher life style in Christ. A commitment to live chased and be faithful to your wife and to commit and vow to the Lord that you will live his gospel is part of a higher order of Christian living. There is more, but you may have the same mindset that the Corinthians had, and would not receive the meat.

Jesus' sheep don't follow strangers.

Sorry, Paul said that the flock (of sheep) would not be spared.
Read what he says about the flock:
Acts 20:29King James Version (KJV)
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

This sounds like the perfect application of the parable of the sower:
Matthew 13:20-21King James Version (KJV)
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it. (the sheep)

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Jesus tells his apostles, the seeds that are thrown in stony places are like those who believe (sheep), but do not put down roots, so they endureth for a while, but when tribulation or persecution or other problems arise, like false teachers (that Paul tells us will surely come and not spare the flock), they are offended and leave the flock of the Lord.

So sorry, even the sheep have to find good soil and put down strong root in order to withstand the heavy darts of the adversary.

Which brings us also to who is saved. If you only have to receive the word and you believe, why must you put down strong roots and why must you withstand the evil one if all is automatic. It is because believing is only the beginning, which should prompt us as a new person in Christ, to put down strong roots so we can endure through the long years of persecution, false teachers, and tribulation, and other. Like it says we not only have to believe but we have to endure to the end to receive our crown of glory.