LDS ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE!

[Super14LDS]

... The Father is not married!

How do you know?

 

[Rescued One]

How do you know?

I read my Bible, pray and listen to the Holy Spirit.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I would agree. Making our salvation ultimately dependant on our partner and their faithfulness impacts God's own ability to grant salvation, fulfilment and love. God alone is not enough within Mormonism, you need a wife because God cannot give you what she can give you (or he can give you, for the women reading this). Actually, Mormonism necessarily implies there are other primary agents besides God in receiving ultimate salvation, namely partners in marriage.

Perhaps Mormons if Mormons can accept the possibility that Jesus wasn't married and he received the highest salvation (glorification) possible while not being married, that means marriage is not an absolute requirement to achieve the highest heaven which Jesus no doubt takes part in. If the Mormon were to insist marriage is necessary to achieve that then they must say Jesus was married but they are not allowed to say that dogmatically so the possibility still remains.

 

[BigDaddy4]

It's not just their partner their salvation is dependant upon, but also being baptized by someone with the "proper priesthood authority". If said person is not your spouse, then that's at least 2 other people the lds salvation is dependant upon.

 

[Ironhold]

Actually, a person's salvation is all on them.

Don't get baptized by the proper authority in life? It'll happen vicariously in the temple.

Spouse is a louse? It's on them, not you; when things get to the final judgement, you'll have the right to ditch them and in so doing get yourself with someone who's a lot better.

Et cetra.

This thread's turning into a contest to see who can make the biggest mountains of the smallest mole hills.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Actually, a person's salvation is all on them.

Don't get baptized by the proper authority in life? It'll happen vicariously in the temple.

Spouse is a louse? It's on them, not you; when things get to the final judgement, you'll have the right to ditch them and in so doing get yourself with someone who's a lot better.

Et cetra.

This thread's turning into a contest to see who can make the biggest mountains of the smallest mole hills.

You are correct that the false theology of the lds is a big mountain. After the first sentence, none of what you said is Biblically supported.

 

[Ironhold]

So you just dismissed everything I had to say?

 

[BigDaddy4]

Are you wanting me to validate false theology??

 

[Ironhold]

Are you wanting me to validate false theology??

I'm just asking if you bothered reading it all the way through.

 

[Rescued One]

In order to earn eternal life per Mormonism:

President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to His commandments. They shall increase in knowledge, wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall burst upon them” (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954–56], 2:36; italics in original).
Chapter 47: Exaltation

“The question is frequently asked, ‘Can we not be saved without going through with all those ordinances, etc.?’ I would answer, No, not the fullness of salvation. Jesus said, ‘There are many mansions in my Father’s house, and I will go and prepare a place for you.’ [See John 14:2.] House here named should have been translated kingdom; and any person who is exalted to the highest mansion has to abide a celestial law, and the whole law too.”15

“If a man gets a fulness of the priesthood of God, he has to get it in the same way that Jesus Christ obtained it, and that was by keeping all the commandments and obeying all the ordinances of the house of the Lord. …"

15 .History of the Church, 6:184; punctuation modernized; from a discourse given by Joseph Smith on Jan. 21, 1844, in Nauvoo, Illinois; reported by Wilford Woodruff.

Chapter 36: Receiving the Ordinances and Blessings of the Temple

Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Enrichment G, p. 395

 

[mmksparbud]

“The question is frequently asked, ‘Can we not be saved without going through with all those ordinances, etc.?’ I would answer, No, not the fullness of salvation. Jesus said, ‘There are many mansions in my Father’s house, and I will go and prepare a place for you.’ [See John 14:2.] House here named should have been translated kingdom; and any person who is exalted to the highest mansion has to abide a celestial law, and the whole law too.”15

That's another thing where they are wrong in that sentence. The word mansions is not more accurately translated as kingdoms---but rooms.
monai μοναὶ rooms
3438. moné ►
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
abode, mansion.
From meno; a staying, i.e. Residence (the act or the place) -- abode, mansion.
The Greek word here (without variation in printed Greek texts) is monai, the plural of mone. This word is found elsewhere in the NT (in the singular) only in v. 23 of John 14, where the KJV inconsistently translates it “abode.” Outside the NT, the word is not rare, occurring commonly in classical Greek authors, the apocrypha, Philo, Josephus and elsewhere. It is related to the very common verbal root meno, which means “to stay, remain, last, persist, continue.” It comes as no surprise then that Greek dictionaries give “staying, abiding” and “dwelling-place, room, abode” as definitions of mone in its various uses. Nothing here to conjure up images of opulent houses in plantation settings.

The Greek word here (without variation in printed Greek texts) is monai, the plural of mone. This word is found elsewhere in the NT (in the singular) only in v. 23 of John 14, where the KJV inconsistently translates it “abode.” Outside the NT, the word is not rare, occurring commonly in classical Greek authors, the apocrypha, Philo, Josephus and elsewhere. It is related to the very common verbal root meno, which means “to stay, remain, last, persist, continue.” It comes as no surprise then that Greek dictionaries give “staying, abiding” and “dwelling-place, room, abode” as definitions of mone in its various uses. Nothing here to conjure up images of opulent houses in plantation settings.

In the many translations available, none, that I know of, translate that word as kingdoms. I've always preferred the translation--rooms. I've mentioned this before as it is more of coming home to your own room within the Fathers house. Nothing about kingdoms or levels of importance.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I'm just asking if you bothered reading it all the way through.

That's not what you asked. And, had I not read through it, I would not have been able to make the comment of "After the first sentence...".

 

[BigDaddy4]

That's another thing where they are wrong in that sentence. The word mansions is not more accurately translated as kingdoms---but rooms.
monai μοναὶ rooms
3438. moné ►
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
abode, mansion.
From meno; a staying, i.e. Residence (the act or the place) -- abode, mansion.
The Greek word here (without variation in printed Greek texts) is monai, the plural of mone. This word is found elsewhere in the NT (in the singular) only in v. 23 of John 14, where the KJV inconsistently translates it “abode.” Outside the NT, the word is not rare, occurring commonly in classical Greek authors, the apocrypha, Philo, Josephus and elsewhere. It is related to the very common verbal root meno, which means “to stay, remain, last, persist, continue.” It comes as no surprise then that Greek dictionaries give “staying, abiding” and “dwelling-place, room, abode” as definitions of mone in its various uses. Nothing here to conjure up images of opulent houses in plantation settings.

The Greek word here (without variation in printed Greek texts) is monai, the plural of mone. This word is found elsewhere in the NT (in the singular) only in v. 23 of John 14, where the KJV inconsistently translates it “abode.” Outside the NT, the word is not rare, occurring commonly in classical Greek authors, the apocrypha, Philo, Josephus and elsewhere. It is related to the very common verbal root meno, which means “to stay, remain, last, persist, continue.” It comes as no surprise then that Greek dictionaries give “staying, abiding” and “dwelling-place, room, abode” as definitions of mone in its various uses. Nothing here to conjure up images of opulent houses in plantation settings.

In the many translations available, none, that I know of, translate that word as kingdoms. I've always preferred the translation--rooms. I've mentioned this before as it is more of coming home to your own room within the Fathers house. Nothing about kingdoms or levels of importance.

More evidence JS was not a prophet, but twisted Scripture to fit his theology!

 

[Peter1000]

More evidence JS was not a prophet, but twisted Scripture to fit his theology!

More evidence that the person who would translate mansion = rooms is nuts. In the least mansion = house or home, not just rooms. It is not unreasonable to say that the house and lands of a man are his kingdom.
It would be kind of stupid to say a man and his rooms are his kingdom. So the translation has to be house not rooms. If Strong says its rooms, then Strong is again wrong. (Hey, that rhimes)

 

[mmksparbud]

More evidence that the person who would translate mansion = rooms is nuts. In the least mansion = house or home, not just rooms. It is not unreasonable to say that the house and lands of a man are his kingdom.
It would be kind of stupid to say a man and his rooms are his kingdom. So the translation has to be house not rooms. If Strong says its rooms, then Strong is again wrong. (Hey, that rhimes)

And every single translation is nuts. For all of them say the same thing. There are several words for the word mansion
Strong's Greek: 3438. μονή (moné) -- an abiding, an abode

... Transliteration: moné Phonetic Spelling: (mon-ay') Short Definition: lodging,
dwelling-place, room Definition: lodging, dwelling-place, room, abode, mansion. ...
//biblehub.com/str/greek/3438.htm - 12k


Strong's Greek: 833. αὐλή (aulé) -- a courtyard, a court

... a building with an interior courtyard; an uncovered, walled area that is enclosed
but without a roof; an open-air (interior) courtyard of a mansion or palace. ...
//biblehub.com/str/greek/833.htm - 22k


Strong's Greek: 2731. κατοίκησις (katoikésis) ...

... Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. dwelling. From katoikeo; residence (properly, the
act; but by implication, concretely, the mansion) -- dwelling. ...
//biblehub.com/str/greek/2731.htm - 10k


Strong's Greek: 4637. σκηνόω (skénoó) -- to have one's ...

... From skenos; to tent or encamp, ie (figuratively) to occupy (as a mansion) or
(specially), to reside (as God did in the Tabernacle of old, a symbol of ...
//biblehub.com/str/greek/4637.htm - 16k


Strong's Greek: 4633. σκηνή (skéné) -- a tent

... skéné Phonetic Spelling: (skay-nay') Short Definition: a tent, tabernacle Definition:
a tent, booth, tabernacle, abode, dwelling, mansion, habitation. ...
//biblehub.com/str/greek/4633.htm - 30k

The word in John 14:2 is

μοναὶ (monai) — GRK: πατρός μου μοναὶ πολλαί εἰσιν 1 Occurrence
3438 [e]
monai
μοναὶ
rooms
N-NFP
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(2) In my Father’s house are many mansions.—The Greek word used for “house” here is slightly different from that used of the material temple on earth in John 2:16. The exact meaning will be at once seen from a comparison of 2Corinthians 5:1, the only other passage in the New Testament where it is used metaphorically. The Jews were accustomed to the thought of heaven as the habitation of God; and the disciples had been taught to pray, “Our Father, which art in heaven.” (Comp. Psalm 23:6; Isaiah 63:15; Matthew 6:9; Acts 7:49; and especially Hebrews 9)
The Greek word for “mansions” occurs again in the New Testament only in John 14:23, where it is rendered abode.” Wiclif and the Geneva version read “dwellings.” It is found in the Greek of the Old Testament only in 1 Maccabees 7:38 (“Suffer them not to continue any longer”—“give them not an abode”). Our translators here followed the Vulgate, which has “mansiones “with the exact meaning of the Greek, that is; “resting-places,” “dwellings.” In Elizabethan English the word meant no more than this, and it now means no more in French or in the English of the North. A maison or a manse, is not necessarily a modern English mansion. It should also be noted that the Greek word is the substantive answering to the verb which is rendered “dwelleth” in John 14:10, and “abide” in John 15:4-10. (see Note there).

I am terribly sorry you do not like the meaning of the word. You can not change a language to suit your theories. Please state the translations that render this word---kingdoms. I can not find any.

 

[Peter1000]

And every single translation is nuts. For all of them say the same thing. There are several words for the word mansion
Strong's Greek: 3438. μονή (moné) -- an abiding, an abode

... Transliteration: moné Phonetic Spelling: (mon-ay') Short Definition: lodging,
dwelling-place, room Definition: lodging, dwelling-place, room, abode, mansion. ...
//biblehub.com/str/greek/3438.htm - 12k


Strong's Greek: 833. αὐλή (aulé) -- a courtyard, a court

... a building with an interior courtyard; an uncovered, walled area that is enclosed
but without a roof; an open-air (interior) courtyard of a mansion or palace. ...
//biblehub.com/str/greek/833.htm - 22k


Strong's Greek: 2731. κατοίκησις (katoikésis) ...

... Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. dwelling. From katoikeo; residence (properly, the
act; but by implication, concretely, the mansion) -- dwelling. ...
//biblehub.com/str/greek/2731.htm - 10k


Strong's Greek: 4637. σκηνόω (skénoó) -- to have one's ...

... From skenos; to tent or encamp, ie (figuratively) to occupy (as a mansion) or
(specially), to reside (as God did in the Tabernacle of old, a symbol of ...
//biblehub.com/str/greek/4637.htm - 16k


Strong's Greek: 4633. σκηνή (skéné) -- a tent

... skéné Phonetic Spelling: (skay-nay') Short Definition: a tent, tabernacle Definition:
a tent, booth, tabernacle, abode, dwelling, mansion, habitation. ...
//biblehub.com/str/greek/4633.htm - 30k

The word in John 14:2 is

μοναὶ (monai) — GRK: πατρός μου μοναὶ πολλαί εἰσιν 1 Occurrence
3438 [e]
monai
μοναὶ
rooms
N-NFP
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(2) In my Father’s house are many mansions.—The Greek word used for “house” here is slightly different from that used of the material temple on earth in John 2:16. The exact meaning will be at once seen from a comparison of 2Corinthians 5:1, the only other passage in the New Testament where it is used metaphorically. The Jews were accustomed to the thought of heaven as the habitation of God; and the disciples had been taught to pray, “Our Father, which art in heaven.” (Comp. Psalm 23:6; Isaiah 63:15; Matthew 6:9; Acts 7:49; and especially Hebrews 9)
The Greek word for “mansions” occurs again in the New Testament only in John 14:23, where it is rendered abode.” Wiclif and the Geneva version read “dwellings.” It is found in the Greek of the Old Testament only in 1 Maccabees 7:38 (“Suffer them not to continue any longer”—“give them not an abode”). Our translators here followed the Vulgate, which has “mansiones “with the exact meaning of the Greek, that is; “resting-places,” “dwellings.” In Elizabethan English the word meant no more than this, and it now means no more in French or in the English of the North. A maison or a manse, is not necessarily a modern English mansion. It should also be noted that the Greek word is the substantive answering to the verb which is rendered “dwelleth” in John 14:10, and “abide” in John 15:4-10. (see Note there).

I am terribly sorry you do not like the meaning of the word. You can not change a language to suit your theories. Please state the translations that render this word---kingdoms. I can not find any.

Wow did you go to a lot of work over a little nothing. Besides you got a lot of definitions on an abiding, an abode, courtyard, a court, a tent, that all include the word mansion in the definition. But why did you not look up the definition of mansion.

And so what if Strong says anything, is it supposed to be the last word. If Strong says that the word 'mansion' is similar to 'rooms', then start searching another dictionary.

The whole thing amounts to nothing anyway, why the extensive research?

 

[mmksparbud]

Wow did you go to a lot of work over a little nothing. Besides you got a lot of definitions on an abiding, an abode, courtyard, a court, a tent, that all include the word mansion in the definition. But why did you not look up the definition of mansion.

And so what if Strong says anything, is it supposed to be the last word. If Strong says that the word 'mansion' is similar to 'rooms', then start searching another dictionary.

The whole thing amounts to nothing anyway, why the extensive research?

LOL! What you call nothing was made a big deal of by saying it means kingdoms so that it would more easily fit the twisted theory of God dispensing kingdoms to the elect.


“The question is frequently asked, ‘Can we not be saved without going through with all those ordinances, etc.?’ I would answer, No, not the fullness of salvation. Jesus said, ‘There are many mansions in my Father’s house, and I will go and prepare a place for you.’ [See John 14:2.] House here named should have been translated kingdom; and any person who is exalted to the highest mansion has to abide a celestial law, and the whole law too.”15
15 .History of the Church, 6:184; punctuation modernized; from a discourse given by Joseph Smith on Jan. 21, 1844, in Nauvoo, Illinois; reported by Wilford Woodruff.

Chapter 36: Receiving the Ordinances and Blessings of the Temple

You can not twist a language to suit your theories. The reason Smith did not translate this word right is because Mormonism is not of God. When it comes to the bible you guys have said yourselves---it must be translat4d accurately. Well----he didn't. And what do you mean why did I not look up the word mansion??--I did--read post #175 again. Mansions means rooms. In our Fathers home are many rooms. Cozy--huh? Not a bunch of kingdoms far away----rooms right in our Father's house.

 

[Peter1000]

LOL! What you call nothing was made a big deal of by saying it means kingdoms so that it would more easily fit the twisted theory of God dispensing kingdoms to the elect.


“The question is frequently asked, ‘Can we not be saved without going through with all those ordinances, etc.?’ I would answer, No, not the fullness of salvation. Jesus said, ‘There are many mansions in my Father’s house, and I will go and prepare a place for you.’ [See John 14:2.] House here named should have been translated kingdom; and any person who is exalted to the highest mansion has to abide a celestial law, and the whole law too.”15
15 .History of the Church, 6:184; punctuation modernized; from a discourse given by Joseph Smith on Jan. 21, 1844, in Nauvoo, Illinois; reported by Wilford Woodruff.

Chapter 36: Receiving the Ordinances and Blessings of the Temple

You can not twist a language to suit your theories. The reason Smith did not translate this word right is because Mormonism is not of God. When it comes to the bible you guys have said yourselves---it must be translat4d accurately. Well----he didn't. And what do you mean why did I not look up the word mansion??--I did--read post #175 again. Mansions means rooms. In our Fathers home are many rooms. Cozy--huh? Not a bunch of kingdoms far away----rooms right in our Father's house.

Not one dictionary online says that a mansion = rooms
Not one online site that I read said that a synonym for mansion = rooms.
If Strong says mansion = rooms then I will figure their bias is showing and there translating skills equal their agenda, just like JS is charged for being biased. How bout that, other people are biased too.

So stop with your mansion = rooms.

The scripture you are quoting in the KJV uses the word mansions. In my Fathers house are many mansions. This brings to my mind that the Fathers house equates with the Father's Kingdom or as the scriptures say, the KOG or the KOH. And in this kingdom, there are many mansions and Jesus was going there to prepare one for each of the apostles.



It does make sense the way it is worded that the word 'rooms' fits better than 'mansions', and that is the word some translations of the bible use. Some say abodes, some use dwellings, some use 'enough room'. So again, the bibles are all over the place.

If JS uses kingdoms, I go with kingdoms. You can go with rooms if you wish. Just remember those who are saved will be joint-heirs with Jesus in all that the Father has. To say we will share a room with Jesus does not sound very godly, it sounds smallish and insignificant. I like sharing a kingdom with Jesus and I believe that is what Jesus was trying to portray.
Each of us would be granted a magnificent mansion/kingdom and we with Jesus would rule our kingdom.

You can have your little room if you wish. (if room is even translated correctly???)

 

[drstevej]

Strong's Greek: 3438. μονή (moné) -- an abiding, an abode

μονή

 

[mmksparbud]

Not one dictionary online says that a mansion = rooms
Not one online site that I read said that a synonym for mansion = rooms.
If Strong says mansion = rooms then I will figure their bias is showing and there translating skills equal their agenda, just like JS is charged for being biased. How bout that, other people are biased too.

So stop with your mansion = rooms.

The scripture you are quoting in the KJV uses the word mansions. In my Fathers house are many mansions. This brings to my mind that the Fathers house equates with the Father's Kingdom or as the scriptures say, the KOG or the KOH. And in this kingdom, there are many mansions and Jesus was going there to prepare one for each of the apostles.



It does make sense the way it is worded that the word 'rooms' fits better than 'mansions', and that is the word some translations of the bible use. Some say abodes, some use dwellings, some use 'enough room'. So again, the bibles are all over the place.

If JS uses kingdoms, I go with kingdoms. You can go with rooms if you wish. Just remember those who are saved will be joint-heirs with Jesus in all that the Father has. To say we will share a room with Jesus does not sound very godly, it sounds smallish and insignificant. I like sharing a kingdom with Jesus and I believe that is what Jesus was trying to portray.
Each of us would be granted a magnificent mansion/kingdom and we with Jesus would rule our kingdom.

You can have your little room if you wish. (if room is even translated correctly???)

It has been very evident that you will always side with JS over what anybody else, including Jesus says. It just proves the fact that it is not truth, it is not accuracy that interests you, but JS. You do not seem to grasp at the very simplest of things when plainly stated as they must be in alignment with the theories of JS.
The image that Jesus is portraying here is one of closeness with God, of abiding with Him. In ancient Israel it was the custom for the family to all live together, tents were added to a compound, rooms were added to a house as the family grew. They did not go off to different areas, into different countries unless they were estranged or had to part due to size--such as Lot and Abraham. JS wants opulence, power, vast kingdoms where one man reigns over everyone else--Jesus is implying closeness, family, togetherness under the arms of God. This is yet one more example of how different the ideas of JS are from those of Jesus.