LDS ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE!

[Peter1000]

It has been very evident that you will always side with JS over what anybody else, including Jesus says. It just proves the fact that it is not truth, it is not accuracy that interests you, but JS. You do not seem to grasp at the very simplest of things when plainly stated as they must be in alignment with the theories of JS.
The image that Jesus is portraying here is one of closeness with God, of abiding with Him. In ancient Israel it was the custom for the family to all live together, tents were added to a compound, rooms were added to a house as the family grew. They did not go off to different areas, into different countries unless they were estranged or had to part due to size--such as Lot and Abraham. JS wants opulence, power, vast kingdoms where one man reigns over everyone else--Jesus is implying closeness, family, togetherness under the arms of God. This is yet one more example of how different the ideas of JS are from those of Jesus.

What Jesus said can be interpreted many, many ways. JS just has 1 way to interpret it. Strong has another way, X has another way, Y has another way, etc., etc., etc. I happen to pick JS interpretation of what Jesus said over how Strong interprets the same words of Jesus, over X, and over Y. We love the words of Jesus, but some times we have to interpret them the best we know how. If JS says mansions = kingdoms and Strong says mansion = rooms, and X says mansions = abode, and Y says mansions = dwelling place, I choose JS's interpretation.

 

[mmksparbud]

Yes---of course you do.

 

[Peter1000]

Yes---of course you do.

Is that odd to you. If the bible is ambiguous, and interpretations must be made, why would I believe in an interpretation that I don't believe in? You believe in the interpretation you believe in. Give me the same consideration.

One other factor for interpreting mansions = kingdoms is this scripture:
Revelation 1:5-6King James Version (KJV)
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

If we are going to be kings and priests unto God, then we will probably have some kind of kingdom in God's house rather than a room. Makes sense in this context.

 

[mmksparbud]

Is that odd to you. If the bible is ambiguous, and interpretations must be made, why would I believe in an interpretation that I don't believe in? You believe in the interpretation you believe in. Give me the same consideration.

One other factor for interpreting mansions = kingdoms is this scripture:
Revelation 1:5-6King James Version (KJV)
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

If we are going to be kings and priests unto God, then we will probably have some kind of kingdom in God's house rather than a room. Makes sense in this context.

Ambiguous!! translation after translation states rooms, but JD says kingdom and you choose JS---please do not tell me you want truth. Nothing states how big those rooms are. And as I've said, the idea is one of closeness, of family--JS is one of power, greed, status---no surprise which you would choose.

 

[Peter1000]

Ambiguous!! translation after translation states rooms, but JD says kingdom and you choose JS---please do not tell me you want truth. Nothing states how big those rooms are. And as I've said, the idea is one of closeness, of family--JS is one of power, greed, status---no surprise which you would choose.

Ambiguous!!! Here is the definition of 'ambiguous':
open to or having several possible meanings or interpretations;equivocal:

I looked at 20 translations and many translated mansion = rooms. The rest were all over the place. Some said abode, some said dwelling place, most said mansion, etc.
So acccording to the definition of ambiguous, there are several possible meanings or interpretations. I know you don't like to know that, but get a grip.

Since the scriptures say we will be kings and priests unto God, then I suspect a room in a mansion is not quite what Jesus was trying to portray. But the translators must not have known that we would be kings and priests unto God, so a room in God's mansion would be nice and family close.

Just to put your words straight. You say JS translation means one of power, greed, status, and then you say, it is no surprize that I would choose this interpretation.
First of all thank you for calling me a power hungry, greedy, status seeking person. I know you don't know me, but I am none of this. And neither was JS. There is an amount of power and authority and glory that goes with the position of being a king and priest of God. God Himself is a God of glory, but not vain glory. God wants us all to be powerful people, do you think He will make us a king over a kingdom and then make us a wet noodle kinds of persons.
No, but He does expect us to be like Him, who is all powerful, but full of himility and grace. The opposite of power hungry and greedy and status seeking. Not nice.

 

[mmksparbud]

Ambiguous!!! Here is the definition of 'ambiguous':
open to or having several possible meanings or interpretations;equivocal:

I looked at 20 translations and many translated mansion = rooms. The rest were all over the place. Some said abode, some said dwelling place, most said mansion, etc.
So acccording to the definition of ambiguous, there are several possible meanings or interpretations. I know you don't like to know that, but get a grip.

Since the scriptures say we will be kings and priests unto God, then I suspect a room in a mansion is not quite what Jesus was trying to portray. But the translators must not have known that we would be kings and priests unto God, so a room in God's mansion would be nice and family close.

Just to put your words straight. You say JS translation means one of power, greed, status, and then you say, it is no surprize that I would choose this interpretation.
First of all thank you for calling me a power hungry, greedy, status seeking person. I know you don't know me, but I am none of this. And neither was JS. There is an amount of power and authority and glory that goes with the position of being a king and priest of God. God Himself is a God of glory, but not vain glory. God wants us all to be powerful people, do you think He will make us a king over a kingdom and then make us a wet noodle kinds of persons.
No, but He does expect us to be like Him, who is all powerful, but full of himility and grace. The opposite of power hungry and greedy and status seeking. Not nice.

Yah--abode, dwelling place--not a one said kingdoms.
It is JS that has a lust for power. You are buying into his ideas. His ideas are not of humility and grace.
It is kingdoms, worlds, wives.....Not nice.

 

[Peter1000]

Yah--abode, dwelling place--not a one said kingdoms.
It is JD that has a lust for power. You are buying into his ideas. His ideas are of humility and grace.
UIt is kingdoms, worlds, wives.....Not nice.

I'm sorry JS teaches that we can be like God. Being like God means we are powerful, but humble and full of love for all.
That is the teaching. Nothing to do with greed, lust for power, status seeking, none of these things are like God. Being like God is the teaching. Do no put words in JS mouth. He never once gave a sermon that we should be like God, who is all in for lust of power and a greedy status seeker. Never heard that speech. So maybe you need to read more of JS and get it right before you talk anymore.

 

[mmksparbud]

I'm sorry JS teaches that we can be like God. Being like God means we are powerful, but humble and full of love for all.
That is the teaching. Nothing to do with greed, lust for power, status seeking, none of these things are like God. Being like God is the teaching. Do no put words in JS mouth. He never once gave a sermon that we should be like God, who is all in for lust of power and a greedy status seeker. Never heard that speech. So maybe you need to read more of JS and get it right before you talk anymore.

Being like God is being content with what is given. It is being humble, kind, loving, it is loving truth and honesty, it is giving, not taking, it is closeness not alienation, it is inclusive, not exclusive, it is not looking for a world to be the ruler of with multiple wives as the pinnacle of being saved.

 

[Peter1000]

Being like God is being content with what is given. It is being humble, kind, loving, it is loving truth and honesty, it is giving, not taking, it is closeness not alienation, it is inclusive, not exclusive, it is not looking for a world to be the ruler of with multiple wives as the pinnacle of being saved.

We want to be like God. We may find that to be different than the way we think it will be, but what ever that way is we want to be like Him.

Is God a taker, is God an alienator, does God exclude (actually he does, He will exlude a lot of people from living with Him)

Bottom line, according to your calculations, I believe in Jesus, and I have been born again by the HS, therefore by the grace of Jesus I will be saved to live with God and Jesus for eternity. I want to be like God, and he has told us that we can. That is all I am working for. If that means God gives me a kingdom, great, I will be a king and priest to Him forever.

Here is an interesting scenerio: the scriptures say that we will be kings and priests unto God. If God makes me a king, obviously there has to be a kingdom attached to it. If I am a king with a kingdom, where are my subjects going to come from?

 

[mmksparbud]

We want to be like God. We may find that to be different than the way we think it will be, but what ever that way is we want to be like Him.

Is God a taker, is God an alienator, does God exclude (actually he does, He will exlude a lot of people from living with Him)

Bottom line, according to your calculations, I believe in Jesus, and I have been born again by the HS, therefore by the grace of Jesus I will be saved to live with God and Jesus for eternity. I want to be like God, and he has told us that we can. That is all I am working for. If that means God gives me a kingdom, great, I will be a king and priest to Him forever.

Here is an interesting scenerio: the scriptures say that we will be kings and priests unto God. If God makes me a king, obviously there has to be a kingdom attached to it. If I am a king with a kingdom, where are my subjects going to come from?

LOL!---If a kingdom is what you want, well then dream away. I will settle for what He has definitely promised. Eternal life with Him, on a remade earth filled with stuff I can't even imagine where there is no death, sickness, or tears and Jesus is the light of the world.

 

[BigDaddy4]

If God makes me a king, obviously there has to be a kingdom attached to it. If I am a king with a kingdom, where are my subjects going to come from?

This is where you err. You assume you will have subjects. We are made kings in status only - royalty (i.e., 1 Peter 2:9 "royal priesthood"). It does not mean you will have subjects to rule over. The only possibility of ruling over subjects would be ruling with Christ during the 1k year reign in Rev 20:6. And that only applies to some (v. 5), not all. After that, as Revelations 21 states, we will all be in the "new heaven and new earth". Not seperate kingdoms, or even gods of other planets, as the lds teach.

 

[Peter1000]

This is where you err. You assume you will have subjects. We are made kings in status only - royalty (i.e., 1 Peter 2:9 "royal priesthood"). It does not mean you will have subjects to rule over. The only possibility of ruling over subjects would be ruling with Christ during the 1k year reign in Rev 20:6. And that only applies to some (v. 5), not all. After that, as Revelations 21 states, we will all be in the "new heaven and new earth". Not seperate kingdoms, or even gods of other planets, as the lds teach.

I'm not sure I err. How do you know my kingdom will not have subjects? If there is a new heaven and new earth, how far will those heavens reach? If I am a king and priest unto God, is it out of reasonableness that God could send me to an area of the heavens to do some work for Him?

Who knows for sure, but I think if you have the title of king, by definition you will be a ruler of something? So look forward to your reign

 

[BigDaddy4]

I'm not sure I err. How do you know my kingdom will not have subjects? If there is a new heaven and new earth, how far will those heavens reach? If I am a king and priest unto God, is it out of reasonableness that God could send me to an area of the heavens to do some work for Him?

Revelations 21

Who knows for sure, but I think if you have the title of king, by definition you will be a ruler of something? So look forward to your reign

Having the title of king means one is royalty, set apart, in high regard. One can be called a king, and not have a kingdom.

 

[Rescued One]

I'm sorry JS teaches that we can be like God. Being like God means we are powerful, but humble and full of love for all.
That is the teaching. Nothing to do with greed, lust for power, status seeking, none of these things are like God. Being like God is the teaching. Do no put words in JS mouth. He never once gave a sermon that we should be like God, who is all in for lust of power and a greedy status seeker. Never heard that speech. So maybe you need to read more of JS and get it right before you talk anymore.

No, Joseph Smith didn't just say we should have the qualities of holiness like God has. He said people can become as great as God:

D&C 88
107 And then shall the angels be crowned with the glory of his might, and the saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be made equal with him.

My Father worked out His kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to My Father, so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt Him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take His place, and thereby become exalted myself. So that Jesus treads in the tracks of His Father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all His children. It is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn some of the first principles of the gospel, about which so much hath been said.
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 347-348

What evidence do we have that God does not jealously guard his position and power, but rather seeks to see that his children rise up to his position of glory, knowledge, and power that he has obtained (see Moses 1:39)?
Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, Copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 155

Here, then, is eternal life--to know the only wise and true God. And you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves--to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done--by going from a small degree to another, from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you are able to sit in glory as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power.
The King Follett Sermon, General Conference, April 7, 1844, History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 306

When he was a young man, Lorenzo Snow was promised by the Lord through the Patriarch to the Church that through obedience to the gospel he could become as great as God, “and you cannot wish to be greater”(Eliza R. Snow, Biography and Family Record of Lorenzo Snow, pp. 9-10)
Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, Copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 151

 

[mmksparbud]

Yah---same thoughts as Lucifer had---to be God. No thank you. It didn't get him very far! By now, you would think someone else had managed to get to be god---one of those pre-existing beings should have obtained it by now? It's just that nobody mentions anyone havng achieved this -- it only says that there is only one God, and there is no other and there will never be any other.

 

[Ironhold]

Yah---same thoughts as Lucifer had---to be God. No thank you. It didn't get him very far! By now, you would think someone else had managed to get to be god---one of those pre-existing beings should have obtained it by now? It's just that nobody mentions anyone havng achieved this -- it only says that there is only one God, and there is no other and there will never be any other.

We've explained the whole God / god bit several times over.

God = Heavenly Father

god = exalted being, as per Psalms 82

 

[drstevej]

We've explained the whole God / god bit several times over.

God = Heavenly Father

god = exalted being, as per Psalms 82

Heavenly Mother once again gets ignored... or is she not God ???

 

[mmksparbud]

We've explained the whole God / god bit several times over.

God = Heavenly Father

god = exalted being, as per Psalms 82

And the whole god thing in Psalms 82 has been explained several times over.

A core belief of Judaism is that there is only one God.

The Hebrew is:

אֲנִי-אָמַרְתִּי, אֱלֹהִים אַתֶּם; וּבְנֵי עֶלְיוֹן כֻּלְּכֶם.‏

The word אֱלֹהִים can mean "God". It can also mean Judge, Idolatrous god/power (note the distinction between God and gods), Important Person.

In this context, others translate it as "godlike beings", "angels", "angelic creatures". But definitely not "Gods".

אֱלֹהִים as 'Power' or 'Powerful Ones.' That covers the different possible meanings of God, false gods, powerful people or angels. Those who are either powerful or are falsely thought to be powerful in this world.

Psalm 82 poetically plays on the different meanings of אֱלֹהִים to exhort judges to judge properly and support the weak and poor rather than favoring the rich and powerful.
God 'stands' in the midst of judges and will judge them.

How long will you (bad) judges favor the wicked? Give justice to the weak, the orphan and the poor. Rescue the needy and powerless from the hands of the wicked.

They (corrupt judges) do not know nor do they understand that they walk in darkness.

I thought all judges were Godly and powerful sons of the most High (i.e. good and righteous) But like all men, even powerful princes you will die.

Please God judge the world, you control all the nations.

 

[Peter1000]

No, Joseph Smith didn't just say we should have the qualities of holiness like God has. He said people can become as great as God:

Are you aware that Jesus taught that his apostles and other will do greater things than he did. How is that possible?????
Regular men can be as perfect as God is???????????? (Matthew 5:40)
God said, Be ye holy, for I am holy????????? (1 Peter 1:16)
We can partake of the divine nature?????????? (2 Peter 1:4)

So according to the scriptures, we can be as perfect as God, we can be as holy as God and we can partake of God's nature. We can become like God. JS is right on target, according to the bible. That is a lost doctrine that JS restored by revelation from Jesus Christ. Somehow many years ago, people stopped believing in what the bible said about our relationship with God.

 

[mmksparbud]

Are you aware that Jesus taught that his apostles and other will do greater things than he did. How is that possible?????
Regular men can be as perfect as God is???????????? (Matthew 5:40)
God said, Be ye holy, for I am holy????????? (1 Peter 1:16)
We can partake of the divine nature?????????? (2 Peter 1:4)

So according to the scriptures, we can be as perfect as God, we can be as holy as God and we can partake of God's nature. We can become like God. JS is right on target, according to the bible. That is a lost doctrine that JS restored by revelation from Jesus Christ. Somehow many years ago, people stopped believing in what the bible said about our relationship with God.

JS didn't want to be LIKE God the Father---He teaches we become God the Father because God the Father was once human and became God and we can too. The bible teaches we can reflect His character. we will never BECOME God.