LDS ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE!

[mmksparbud]

If God the Father and Jesus Christ are made of the same substance, then all that you have said is not true. They are and so you come to your own conclusion.

It is not JS, it is the the Trinity doctrine and the bible. God the Father cannot be pure spirit and Jesus His son be flesh and bone and spirit. Think about it.

You can't let go of JS long enough to get that God and Jesus were one substance--they no longer are as Jesus became fully human and retains that humanity still. He is still fully divine. JS is not of God. God the Father was never flesh and bone--never will be---Jesus is both. You think about it.

 

[Rescued One]

Then you cannot say that the Father and the Son are made of the same substance. IOW you do not believe in the Trinity doctrine.

Yes, they are. Jesus never stopped being God. Man can never be God.

 

[Rescued One]

You are avoiding my post. The discussion is not whether Jesus is fully God or if he has always been fully God.

The question is: You said Jesus was not a man. I said the bible differs from what you are saying. Jesus is God in the form of a resurrected man, with a body of flesh and bone and spirit.

Do you believe this or not? If you don't because the HS told you he is not, then you are being told things but not of the HS. Because in this case the bible clearly tells us that he is.

Don't disregard my answers.

 

[mmksparbud]

No, Mormons don't teach that Jesus had flesh and bone before He grew in Mary's womb.

That is what they keep saying--that God is flesh and bone and not spirit though Jesus says He is spirit.
Spirit does not have flesh and bone---according to Jesus
Luk_24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
So what is it you guys believe? Jesus was spirit before being born--the same as God the Father---both were spirit---Jesus is now both human and spirit. If Jesus was not flesh and bone before the incarnation--neither was God the Father.

 

[Rescued One]

That is what they keep saying--that God is flesh and bone and not spirit though Jesus says He is spirit.
Spirit does not have flesh and bone---according to Jesus
Luk_24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
So what is it you guys believe? Jesus was spirit before being born--the same as God the Father---both were spirit---Jesus is now both human and spirit. If Jesus was not flesh and bone before the incarnation--neither was God the Father.

No, they teach that each became a god at different times and each became a human at different times.

 

[mmksparbud]

No, they teach that each became a god at different times and each became a human at different times.

???????? Good grief.

 

[Rescued One]

A MODERN PROPHET'S ANSWER

I want the little folks to hear what I am going to tell you. I am going to tell you a simple truth, yet it is one of the greatest truths and one of the most simple facts ever revealed to the children of men.

You all know that your fathers are indeed your fathers and that your mothers are indeed your mothers---you all know that, don't you? You cannot deny it. Now, we are told in scriptures that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God in the flesh. Well, now for the benefit of the older ones, how are children begotten? I answer just as Jesus was begotten of his father. The difference between Jesus Christ and other men is this: Our fathers in the flesh are mortal men, whi are subject unto death: but the Father of Jesus Christ in the flesh is the God of Heaven. Therefore, Jesus, as he declared, received the power of life from his father and was never subject unto death but had life in himself. Because of this power he overcame death and the grave and became master of the resurrection and the means of salvation to us all.

We must come down to the simple fact that God almighty was the Father of His Son Jesus Christ. Mary, the virgin girl, who had never known mortal man, was his mother. God by her begot His Son Jesus Christ, and he was born into the world with power and intelligence like that of His Father....

Now, my little friends, I will repeat again in words as simple as I can, and you talk to your parents about it, that God, the Eternal Father, is literally the father of Jesus Christ. (Joseph F. Smith, Box Elder Stake Conference Dec. 20, 1914 as quoted in Brigham City Box Elder News, 28 Jan. 1915, pp. 1-2.

Family Home Evening Manual, 1972 Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, pp. 125-126.

 

[Rescued One]

At this point, discuss in your own words how Jesus was the only begotten Son of God. You might do this by using the following illustration on a chalkboard or piece of paper.

Family Home Evening Manual, 1972 Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 126.

 

[Rescued One]

Mormonism:
Not until that night in Bethlehem did Jesus get a physical body. At death the blood is removed and the resurrected body has no blood.

 

[mmksparbud]

Luk_24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

So this is what they think this means---that Jesus had no blood anymore? But it also says that spirit has no flesh and no boners. Jesus has flesh and bones after the resurrection. If spirit has no flesh and no bones---then Jesus, before the incarnation, had neither flesh nor bones either. And neither did God for God is spirit. But they keep argueing that God the Father has flesh and bones---I do not get this!!!

 

[Rescued One]

All beings, per Mormonism, began as eternal intelligences that were not created. An exalted god and goddess took intelligences and formed them into spirit children. The spirit children were taught the plan of salvation before being sent to an earth to gain a body and learn obedience to laws and ordinances. "Heavenly Father" is a spirit who first had a body of flesh and blood, and now has a resurrected glorified body. The intelligences that he made into spirit offspring came to this earth to gain bodies and to learn and to obey.

...It was as though the Lord by his own voice said: “My servant President Harold B. Lee was true and faithful in all things that I appointed him to do; his ministry among you is completed; and I have called him to other and greater labors in my eternal vineyard. And I, the Lord, now call my servant President Spencer W. Kimball to lead my people and to continue the work of preparing them for that great day when I shall come to reign personally upon the earth. And I now say of him as I said of my servant Joseph Smith: ‘… thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me;

“‘For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith...

May I say that there is no chance in the call of these brethren to direct the Lord’s work on earth. His hand is in it. He knows the end from the beginning. He ordained and established the plan of salvation and decreed that his everlasting gospel should be revealed to man in a series of dispensations commencing with Adam and continuing to Joseph Smith. And he—the Almighty—chooses the prophets and apostles who minister in his name and present his message to the world in every age and dispensation. He selects and foreordains his ministers; he sends them to earth at the times before appointed; he guides and directs their continuing mortal preparations; and he then calls them to those positions they were foreordained to receive from before the foundations of the earth.
Bruce R. McConkie, General Conference, April 1974

God Foreordains His Prophets and His People - Bruce R. McConkie

I hope you can read the blue font. Let me know.

 

[mmksparbud]

All beings, per Mormonism, began as eternal intelligences that were not created. An exalted god and goddess took intelligences and formed them into spirit children. The spirit children were taught the plan of salvation before being sent to an earth to gain a body and learn obedience to laws and ordinances. "Heavenly Father" is a spirit who has a glorified body. The intelligences that he made into spirit offspring came to this earth to gain bodies and to learn and to obey.

Do they not understand that they are saying that everybody--no matter who --is actually a preexisting God--only God existed from eternity--but they are basically saying we all always existed as these spirit "intelligences"----no one was created. Just physical bodies were created for them. Well these "intelligences" were not very intelligent if they had to come to this earth to learn to obey. In other words--they existed from eternity as stupid beings. OK.---Well---guess what---they're still incredibly stupid.

I started out trying soooo hard to be polite and not offend and soon realized there was no way around this----how can you be totally polite about something being called Christian that clearly isn't?? How do you arrange your words to express your thoughts without offending?? Not possible. I will at this point, say nothing or I will be kicked of this site for time and eternity.

 

[Rescued One]

Do they not understand that they are saying that everybody--no matter who --is actually a preexisting God--only God existed from eternity--but they are basically saying we all always existed as these spirit "intelligences"----no one was created. Just physical bodies were created for them. Well these "intelligences" were not very intelligent if they had to come to this earth to learn to obey. In other words--they existed from eternity as stupid beings. OK.---Well---guess what---they're still incredibly stupid.

I started out trying soooo hard to be polite and not offend and soon realized there was no way around this----how can you be totally polite about something being called Christian that clearly isn't?? How do you arrange your words to express your thoughts without offending?? Not possible. I will at this point, say nothing or I will be kicked of this site for time and eternity.

I'm so sorry. Jesus didn't say it would be easy for His followers. They aren't saying that any intelligences were stupid. They had to obey to be allowed to come to earth.

Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 3
22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.
24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;
25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;
26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.
Abraham 3

Verse 25 makes it sound like their gods aren't omniscient.

Pre-earth life is the first estate. Mortality is the second estate.

 

[mmksparbud]

Soooo---Hitler was a good god before he came to earth to learn to obey??-----mager failure.

 

[Rescued One]

As for those of us on earth who keep all the commandments, read this:

Doctrine and Covenants 132
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.
Doctrine and Covenants 132

The missionaries only ask people to read the Book of Mormon.

 

[Rescued One]

Soooo---Hitler was a good god before he came to earth to learn to obey??-----mager failure.

 

[Randy777]

Do you have anything to back up your assertion that this isn't true theology, or just blanket condemnation for something you personally disagree with?

Sounds carnal (of the flesh) to me. Celestial marriage.

That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 24“Teacher,” they said, “Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and raise up offspring for him. 25Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27Finally, the woman died. 28Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?”

29Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’b ? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

 

[Randy777]

The Lord is an eternal being. You and I are eternal beings. The Lord does things that last for eternity. Marriage in the Lord is an eternal principle.

For as God says:
1 Corinthians 11:11-12King James Version (KJV)
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

Does this saying of God have a time frame mentioned? No.

So I conclude that a marriage (in the Lord) will last for eternity. It is a strong position biblically.

If we are eternal why then does those left alive at the 2nd coming need to be caught up and "clothed with immortality"? Wouldn't they already have immortality?

 

[Randy777]

Humans were created by God. We haven't existed in eternity past. That is a major difference between Mormonism and Christianity.

I agree:

There is no scripture that supports God forms the spirit of a person (mankind) outside the womb. Zech 12:1 states formed within
The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares:

Jeremiah speaks only about Jeremiah not mankind and clearly the context is "I had you in my plans/mind before you were born" not a prescription for the preexistence of our souls.

The only one who preexisted Is Jesus and its clear to me the Son who was (His Spirit) was in the tent of the body God prepared for Him as Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus="Father into your hands I commit my spirit"

Hebrews 10:5
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

 

[Ironhold]

Soooo---Hitler was a good god before he came to earth to learn to obey??-----mager failure.

How... does that even flow from the concept that everyone was together in Heaven before we came to Earth?