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I will not answer any more of your questions until you actually answer mine.holdon said:Justified before the foundation of the world? Where do you get that from?
Justified when Christ died and rose again? Where do you get that from?
Outrider said:There is no Scripture that teaches that a man is saved by his own faith alone.
holdon said:Romans 4:5 "his faith is reckoned as righteousness". Whose faith is that? It says it right there: his faith.
Outrider said:It his faith once its been given to him. Otherwise you've got a major doctrine of the Bible problem on your hands, my friend. "There is none righteous, no not one." The faith we were born with is unrighteous and cannot be counted as righteous. God is not stupid and he is not a liar. He does not call righteous what is unrighteous. That is wickedness and God is not wicked.
mlqurgw said:I will not answer any more of your questions until you actually answer mine.
I can and will once you simply respond to what I asked. You are doing exactly as I said you would do if I answered first. Can you give a direct answer or will it cause your assertions to be proven false? I think you do not answer because you cannot. If you will not then my discussion with you is done.holdon said:You can say all you want. I am just asking you to back it up with Scripture. Apparently you can't.
mlqurgw said:I can and will once you simply respond to what I asked. You are doing exactly as I said you would do if I answered first. Can you give a direct answer or will it cause your assertions to be proven false? I think you do not answer because you cannot. If you will not then my discussion with you is done.
This is the last time I will ask. Yes or no, does God count your faith as righteousness without an actual righteousness being worked out?holdon said:Just go back and read my answers. Then tell me what you're still missing. I don't know what answers you're still looking for.
holdon said:Calm down. You're just wrong. The bible doesn't teach that faith needs to be given to you. It doesn't teach that we were born with a faith and that it is unrighteous.
jmacvols said:Christ put the "formula" there, not me. Belief AND be baptized shall be saved. It is simplistic, straight-forward and undeniable.
holdon said:Just go back and read my answers. Then tell me what you're still missing. I don't know what answers you're still looking for.
jmacvols said:Once again your misunderstanding of the Scriptures shines out like a supernova, for Isaiah is addressing the wickedness of "all the nations", and is describing the state of all humanity, just as Paul does in Romans 2 quoting the Psalmists and Prophets.
No. First note that John wrote "I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth." Here is obedience and it is not counted as 'filthy rags', but joy.
For my times sake:
http://www.nkcofc.com/Tracts/Filthy%20Rags.htm
jmacvols said:Why try to align me with Catholicism? I told you I disagree with them as I do with Calvinism? Catholics idea of baptism is different from what I believe. Example, they baptized infants, which I do not believe in.
jmacvols said:What do YOU mean by 'spiritual', by 'spiritually discern', and 'thing'?
Do we have the gospel in a written form?
If one has reading skills, can they read it?
Can they understand it like the Ephesians?
jmacvols said:Yet Paul and other men were not uninspired like me, they were able to discern the revelations of the Holy Spirit about God. They then wrote them down for us uninspired folks so that we can understand.
Exactly! I am reminded of a young college student who took my daughter out because she defended the truth of God without compromise in her school. Of course he thought she was unconverted and sought to convert her. She simply gave him the Scriptures and God opened his eyes and converted him. He later told me that it was as if someone had stolen his Bible and gave him a new one. The things he now saw in the Scriptures were completely new to him.AwC said; The 1 Corinthians passage is not, in context, addressing inspiration of Scripture.
What it is addressing is the condition of the unregenerate(natural) man and his inability to understand the Gospel apart from the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.
Outrider said:No, he can't answer, because he sees clearly that the righeousness that justifies us is not ours, but is given to us (bestowed, imputed, counted to) and that, being not our own, must be Christ's...just as the Scripture clearly teaches. He sees that he is wrong, so he quotes partial Scripture without interpretation as a dodge because the context those Scriptures are couched in back up imputation to the hilt.
holdon said:Romans 3:22 "righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ towards all, and upon all those who believe"
mlqurgw said:Exactly! I am reminded of a young college student who took my daughter out because she defended the truth of God without compromise in her school. Of course he thought she was unconverted and sought to convert her. She simply gave him the Scriptures and God opened his eyes and converted him. He later told me that it was as if someone had stolen his Bible and gave him a new one. The things he now saw in the Scriptures were completely new to him.
mlqurgw said:Do I really need to explain the entire doctrine of salvation in and by Christ in every response I give on these boards?
mlqurgw said:I will say this one more time. I willingly chose Christ because He first made me see my need of Him. He first gave me eyes and a heart to believe. I heard the Gospel preached all my life but was unregenerate and inwardly rebellious in every thought. Once He opened my eyes and gave me ears to hear I believed and was baptized. It was His work in me and for me that I neither could or would do for myself that made the difference. He conquered me by His Word and then comforted me by Christ. I received life passively and believed actively. Faith is simply relying on Christ for all. It is resting in Him not in ourselves. It is impossible for a man to give up his self-righteousness and do nothing but that is what faith is. Once we have faith then we do, realizing even then that all we do is mixed with sin. Now that I trust Christ alone I need not look to myself at all. That is where the peace that passes understanding comes from. Resting in Christ and not in my obedience. Looking to Him for all the blessings of God and all my acceptance with God. Christ is all.
mlqurgw said:Is your obedience without sin?
holdon said:You have not given those Scriptures. Because there are none that say that Christ's righteous life is imputed to us.
jmacvols said:I also noticed you....
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