Abortion: The Real Reason Why States are Passing Laws Against It

[Pommer]

Sure it was. I did not wish to have sex until marriage. Once I was married we delayed pregnancy but would have been ready to raise a child if pregnancy ensued.

Well, good for you.

 

[zephcom]

Dogs learn before they're born? That's what I posted about regarding human babies.

I know what you pointed out. But just -learning- does not make a human. That was what I pointed out.

 

[Belk]

Do you have some poll that shows most don't care about rape? There are obviously people raping, or we would not see such a huge problem. However, I don't think most approve at all. And where I am at there are a lot of community, legal, etc. efforts to combat human trafficking, etc.

No, I have 1 in 5 women getting raped. Do you see large bodies of Christians forming PACs to increase funding for rape follow ups? Heck, do you see politicians doing much of anything about the huge pile up of rape kits that are not yet processed? I did not claim nothing was being done. I said I wished people would put as much effort into it as they do abortion.

 

[Belk]

Things like this really make me scratch my head. I hear about Christians trying to legislate their faith. Can I get a specific example of this?

Trying to ban SSM. Laws against drinking on the sabbath. Laws against adultery. Laws against sodomy. Laws against pornography.

 

[Pommer]

Hello again Zephcom, being "BORN in America" in this case refers to/is solely concerned with the "place" of our birth, not the "moment" of our birth. The Constitution grants citizenship to those who are born here (or elsewhere, if the birth parents are Americans), but in doing so, it makes no attempt whatsoever to define when human life actually begins.

Jus soli, meaning "right of the soil", commonly referred to as birthright citizenship in the United States, is the right of anyone born in the territory of a state to nationality or citizenship.

Jus sanguinis, meaning "right of blood", is a principle of nationality law by which citizenship is not determined by place of birth but by having one or both parents who are citizens of the state. Children at birth may automatically be citizens if their parents have state citizenship or national identities of ethnic, cultural, or other origins.
​

--David

Psalm 139
13 Thou didst form my inward parts;
Thou didst weave me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will give thanks to Thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Wonderful are Thy works,
And my soul knows it very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from Thee,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth.
16 Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Thy book they were all written,
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.
.​

“Blood and soil”....now where have I heard that before?

 

[Pommer]

We wouldn't have a problem with any of what they do if they just left abortion out of it. The rest of what they do is fine.

You want them defunded federally only because some of their clinics provide abortion?
Sounds like a bit of overkill to my ear.

 

[redleghunter]

Our Constitution states that being BORN in America confers citizenship. That seems to be only place where where our guiding documents attempts to define when life actually starts. You simply assume that your belief defines the beginning of human life and wrap yourself in the flag to pretend the nation supports you.

And, in fact, the primary guiding document...The Constitution, seems pretty clear that life begins at birth and not conception.

Actually the 14th Amendment states we are to not deprive any person of life.

 

[ChicanaRose]

One reason is because places like Planned "Parenthood" are good at portraying a woman's unborn baby as less than human--as just some sort of unwanted growth that needs to be removed to improve the woman's life. Makes the whole abortion process seem so simple, so harmless, and without consequence.

Absolutely Planned Parenthood misinforms women:

Medical Misinformation | Live Action

But I think we as church should still love and help pregnant women out so they don't feel the need to visit Planned Parenthood.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Indeed! We need to punish those dirty, dirty irresponsible women.

Dirty? not sure where that came from, could you please explain? Are you saying it is responsible to become with child when you know before the fact if that happens your decision would be to abort it? Is the potential life of a child so not an issue with you, that you would treat it like say some cheap T shirt that got messed up while you were playing an unexpected game of tag football and after the fun's over, just toss it, not a big deal?

Also, do you think initiative to not kill babies is a bad thing?

 

[rambot]

 

[rambot]

Dirty? not sure where that came from, could you please explain? Are you saying it is responsible to become with child when you know before the fact if that happens your decision would be to abort it? Is the potential life of a child so not an issue with you, that you would treat it like say some cheap T shirt that got messed up while you were playing an unexpected game of tag football and after the fun's over, just toss it, not a big deal?

Also, do you think initiative to not kill babies is a bad thing?

A lady in our church was on birth control and her husband wrapped it. They still got pregnant.
I know several people who got pregnant from ripped condoms.
I know girls on birth control who got pregnant.

There are VERY very few women who use abortion as a "sole" means of birth control; who have a callous and cold view to what they're doing.

I think an initiative that terminates the pregnancies of unwanted and unloved fetuses IS a good thing. I don't think killing babies that are loved, desired and wanted is a good thing.

I worked in the child and family services of my provincial government. I've worked with many kids who were told on the daily that they were not wnated and the mom wished they were aborted.
Guess what that does to a kid.

We, as a society invest soo much innocence, joy, unbridled enthusiasm and protection into children. We love our children as innocent bundles of love that deserve our protection. There are, however, MANY people who do not view children the same way. I MOURN every abortion that happens. It breaks my heart at the potential loss of greatness. But that loss is ALL assumption; we don't know the path that person would take. HOWEVER, I also can say that watching what those teenagers endured for years is not worth it. Many of them wished they were dead; several attempted suicide. At some point I hope most of them came to a happier point but I would definitely not say for sure.

And that's why the passion for protect clumps of cells, to me, rings insufferably hollow from people who are unwilling to make the lives of living children better; either through an increase in taxes, supports, or through their own person action.

 

[tall73]

No, I have 1 in 5 women getting raped. Do you see large bodies of Christians forming PACs to increase funding for rape follow ups?

The abortion fight is a national level contest to put in justices who favor upholding or overturning Roe VS. Wade, with the notion to ban a practice some see as immoral.

Rape is already outlawed. There is not a direct comparison on the two at all.

As to rape follow-ups, are you speaking of health care/mental health follow-ups that involve handling injury, legal matters, STD's etc.? Do we see large PACS on either side wishing to follow up to deal with health or emotional issues for those who have had abortions?

There is a push for medicare for all, etc. which might cover some of it for both issues. That would be helpful But a lot of rape follow up would be at a local level in funding for law enforcement, etc. It sounds like in most cases currently it is handled by nurses from what I can gather. It is not the same as a national level contest to put in Justices on the Supreme Court that are perceived to be on one side or the other of Roe.

Heck, do you see politicians doing much of anything about the huge pile up of rape kits that are not yet processed? I did not claim nothing was being done. I said I wished people would put as much effort into it as they do abortion.

Again, at the local level somethings are done about that. The fact that it is an issue that you can mention that many have heard of shows that some are trying to bring attention to the issue And once the issue was publicized a number of departments scrambled to fix the problem because they realized how upset people were about this. Most people before this simply didn't know. It is not the same as a national level context over justices.

Now, why in reference to the poster did you raise the issue of rape? Did anything he said relate to rape? And just saying it is an example of control is insufficient. He did not advocate rape. He indicated that if people could not get an abortion it might make them reconsider sexual choices. To imply he cares as little about women as a rapist is unwarranted.

 

[rambot]

The abortion fight is a national level contest to put in justices who favor upholding or overturning Roe VS. Wade, with the notion to ban a practice some see as immoral.

Rape is already outlawed. There is not a direct comparison on the two at all.

Outlawed means nothing if the conviction rate overs in the single digits.

The fact that it is an issue that you can mention that many have heard of shows that some are trying to bring attention to the issue And once the issue was publicized a number of departments scrambled to fix the problem because they realized how upset people were about this. Most people before this simply didn't know. It is not the same as a national level context over justices.

I agree 100% with your wording....and my bolded part?
They shouldn't be scrambling to fix the problem "because they realized how upset people were about this". a) the problem shouldn't exist at all.
BUT they should be scrambling to fix the problem because "it is a travesty of justice that assaults against women are not being properly investigated".

 

[tall73]

Outlawed means nothing if the conviction rate overs in the single digits.

It means that there is not national movement to outlaw it, because that is already done.

But there is a lot of advocating for those who have experienced sexual assault and rape, as there should be. The nature of the crime can make it difficult to convict because the burden is beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[DM25]

The left is trying to subjugate Christians by not allowing us to put up crosses and nativity scene up in public places.

Not true at all. The left and Christian are two distinct things and are not mutually exclusive. There are Christian leftists who are pro-life and pro-Christ. But are against the right's values... I myself are centrist but lean to the left, and I am a fundamentalist born-again Christian. I have seen more ugliness and anti-Christ in the right wing group than the left even. Only thing I am "right wing" on is being against gay marriage and being against abortion. Everything else I am centre-left on. Jesus was considered a liberal back in the day for preaching against the old law of the pharisees. The pharisees were considered the hard right conservatives.

 

[zephcom]

I just came across this article:

Abortion Limits Carry Economic Cost For Women

In the article is, "The most common reason the women gave for wanting an abortion was they couldn't afford to support a child."

You really truly want to put a dent...a serious dent...in abortions??? Then deal with the social issues which face women when they deal with the issue of pregnancy. Why on earth would you want to condemn BOTH the woman and the child to a life of poverty just because you would rather make a criminal out of someone than lift her up and support her in a Christ-like manner?

 

[tall73]

I agree 100% with your wording....and my bolded part?
They shouldn't be scrambling to fix the problem "because they realized how upset people were about this". a) the problem shouldn't exist at all.
BUT they should be scrambling to fix the problem because "it is a travesty of justice that assaults against women are not being properly investigated".

We agree on that. The question to me initially was how many are advocating about it. We didn't know it was going on to advocate for it initially. It is ridiculous that it happened.

 

[Sparagmos]

One reason is because places like Planned "Parenthood" are good at portraying a woman's unborn baby as less than human--as just some sort of unwanted growth that needs to be removed to improve the woman's life. Makes the whole abortion process seem so simple, so harmless, and without consequence.

Have you spent any time at planned parenthood? I have, and they absolutely do not portray fetuses as “unwanted growths that needs to be removed to improve the woman’s life.” What is your source for that claim?

 

[Sparagmos]

You don't have to. Read their mission statement for yourself. Lots of flowery words that don't truly convey what they do: What is Planned Parenthood's Mission Statement?

"Leading the Reproductive Health and Rights Movement
On campuses and online, in statehouses and courts, in local communities, and in the media, Planned Parenthood is an outspoken , passionate advocate for policies that enable all people to access comprehensive reproductive and sexual health care, education, and information. Whether we’re talking to members of Congress, parents, or faith leaders, or arguing cases before the U.S. Supreme Court — we fight for commonsense policies that respect your right to make empowered, informed decisions about health, sex, and family planning.

Planned Parenthood has 10 million activists, supporters, and donors working to protect access to health care and fundamental reproductive rights nationwide."

Please tell me where in that link they portray a fretus as a “growth” that needs to “be removed to improve women’s lives”

 

[Sparagmos]

If you need an even better example from them, here ya go:
Should I Get An Abortion? | Information to Help You Decide

They say that it's so common and without any moral consequence: "Abortion is very common, and people have abortions for many different reasons. Only you know what’s best for you, but good information and support can really help you make the decision that is best for your own health and well-being."

They make it sound as if the most trivial reasons for wanting an abortion are valid:
"Everyone has their own unique and valid reasons for having an abortion. Some of the many different reasons people decide to end a pregnancy include:

• They want to be the best parent possible to the kids they already have.
• They’re not ready to be a parent yet.
• It’s not a good time in their life to have a baby.
• They want to finish school, focus on work, or achieve other goals before having a baby.
• They’re not in a relationship with someone they want to have a baby with.
• They’re in an abusive relationship or were sexually assaulted.
• The pregnancy is dangerous or bad for their health.
• The fetus won’t survive the pregnancy or will suffer after birth.
• They just don’t want to be a parent.

If you need more examples, just read their own website that I already provided you a link to.

Is the word “growth” in that one?