Abortion is MURDER!!!!!

[Joeygum]

If the abortion was not decided by the pregnant woman, then the one who did it becomes the murderer. However what do you mean they did not decide it, if you mean they had abortion due to abuse, then the abuser is the guilty murderer.

Also my message to rape victims. I am sorry that happened, it is terrible, but don't take it out on the child. It is not the child's fault

You are forgetting the fact that its a human life LyraJean

How about those people who's birth control doesn't work? Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't the purpose of sex to produce children? I know that sounds crazy in today's age, but yeah the purpose is to produce children

Therefore if you don't want children and decide to use birth control, the better option is don't have sex

Don't try saying excuses either, because as long as the act is consensual it becomes your responsibility

If it is non consensual then again it's not the baby's fault

 

[kiwimac]

Rape may not be the foetuses' fault but it is also NOT the rape victim's either. Just as it is not the fault of the incest victim. You are putting the potential life of a potential human being ahead of the actual life of an actual person. It is simply not acceptable.

 

[Joeygum]

umm excuse me?

If one is raped, then they should not murder the baby because of it, as long as they will survive, then they have no right to kill the child, and if the child can not be cared for then you give it to someone who can take of them

Are you saying a baby is not considered a person by your eyes? You wicked pro murderer, i hope I never have to rely on you to save my family, especially if I have children running around since you think their not actual people

 

[lux et lex]

umm excuse me?

If one is raped, then they should not murder the baby because of it, as long as they will survive, then they have no right to kill the child, and if the child can not be cared for then you give it to someone who can take of them

Are you saying a baby is not considered a person by your eyes? You wicked pro murderer, i hope I never have to rely on you to save my family, especially if I have children running around since you think their not actual people

Wow...calm down. Does a fetus have rights under the Constitution? No. They get them when they become infants, which occurs at birth. While a fetus is human, it is not a person.

 

[yourstrulyjulie]

I really don't understand how anyone can have debate about this. Its not the baby's fault that their mother doesn't want them. That doesn't mean they should be killed.. why cant they be adopted?

 

[Joeygum]

I don't know about you, but I answer to a higher law than the constitution, and by the will of God it is his desire that everyone has the right to life, when mothers commit abortion they take away that right

It is the will of God that no babies die, in fact he often had vengeance on those who killed babies, ex: Exodus, King Herod

A fetus is a human being, and by God it is a person

 

[lux et lex]

Where exactly in the Bible does it condemn abortion? Abortion was around in Biblical times, and you'd think since so much ground is covered in there that if it was THAT important, it would be covered. But instead in Exodus it's made fairly clear that a fetus is only worth 30 pieces of silver.

 

[Joeygum]

That was a whole different time a different era, the ancient Israelites did not realize that the fetus was a human life, and a lot of the rules in the Old Testament were from the laws of the Israelites

We have the knowledge that it's a human life, well most of us do at least

In the bible it condemns murder, and abortion is murder

 

[kiwimac]

Murder is a legal term referring to the illegal taking of a human life. Abortion is legal thus it is not murder no matter how much you may wish to use that term. Moreover search the Bible you will find no references at all to abortion, it simply is not mentioned.

 

[liesje]

Murder is a legal term referring to the illegal taking of a human life. Abortion is legal thus it is not murder no matter how much you may wish to use that term. Moreover search the Bible you will find no references at all to abortion, it simply is not mentioned.

But murder is. If the unborn are human, to kill them is murder.

 

[liesje]

What does the Bible say about abortion? Oh yeah, nothing at all. Except those verses in Leviticus. And in that the person who causes a woman to lose her baby pays a fine. They are not executed.

Where exactly in the Bible does it condemn abortion? Abortion was around in Biblical times, and you'd think since so much ground is covered in there that if it was THAT important, it would be covered. But instead in Exodus it's made fairly clear that a fetus is only worth 30 pieces of silver.

Actually, in Exodus, it says if the baby is born prematurely there is a fine. If the baby or mother is killed, the penalty is death.

"If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise." Exodus 21:22-25

 

[kiwimac]

Nope, sorry the verse refers only to the mother not to the foetus. Both the Hebrew of the verse and the theology of the Rabbis show this to be so.

 

[liesje]

Nope, sorry the verse refers only to the mother not to the foetus. Both the Hebrew of the verse and the theology of the Rabbis show this to be so.

I don't pretend to have the experience that you do, but there are many other theologians who say otherwise. And whether or not these verses apply just to the mother, there are many, many other verses which demonstrate quite clearly that the unborn are people.

 

[kiwimac]

Post them please & try not to post any verse specific to an historical person as it is unlikely that their verse is applicable to anyone else.

 

[yourstrulyjulie]

even if you take religion completely out of this.. just look at it from a moral standpoint..

plus look at all this evidence about it basically being alive..
Birth Psychology - Communication Before Language

oh and this one too

http://www.birthpsychology.com/lifebefore/fetalsense12.html

 

[lux et lex]

But murder is. If the unborn are human, to kill them is murder.

But they aren't, so it's not an issue.

 

[liesje]

Post them please & try not to post any verse specific to an historical person as it is unlikely that their verse is applicable to anyone else.

By that reasoning there is a lot of the Bible we can ignore then. Having it refer to one person does not make it inapplicable for the rest of us.

Psalm 139: 13-16 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place.When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.


When we abort a baby, we are playing God and messing with His work in a way we have absolutely no right to.


In Job 31:15 it says Did not he who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?


This isn't a random accident, or unplanned pregnancy - God actively works inside the mother to form her child. It's not some random blob which suddenly becomes human. To quote John Piper, "the destruction of conceived human life — whether embryonic, fetal, or viable — is an assault on the unique person-forming work of God. Abortion is an assault on God, not just man. God is uniquely at work in the womb from the moment of conception. This is the clear testimony of Psalm 139:13 and Job 31:15." (Ten Reasons Why It Is Wrong to Take the Life of Unborn Children - Desiring God)



Psalm 51: 5
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.


Only humans are sinful. All the world is tainted by sin, but anything that is not a person doesn't sin.


Speaking to Jeremiah, Before I formed you in the womb I knew you. I know this refers to a particular person, but there's no reason why that shouldn't apply to everyone.


Psalm 106:38 They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters. I know this isn't referring specifically to the unborn, but clearly shedding innocent blood. Whatever the blood of the unborn is or isn't, it definitely is innocent.

Those are just some....I have to run now, but I can find more if you like.

But they aren't, so it's not an issue.

What are they? At what point do they become human, and why then? What is a human? At what point does killing a child become wrong? Why?

 

[Joeygum]

I am completely shocked

Why can people not see that it is a human life inside the mother, and that it is a human being

Have people become so heartless they don't care about an innocent baby?

What is going on, God I fear for this world

 

[lux et lex]

What are they? At what point do they become human, and why then? What is a human? At what point does killing a child become wrong? Why?

They are always human, at the point in which they are solely dependent on the woman carrying them they are a human fetus. When they are no longer solely dependent on the woman carrying them, (ie when they are born) they are a human being. It's about transferability. Once a child is born, anyone can care for it. That's not the case with a fetus. As soon as the fetus is born, and turns into an infant, it is a separate and independent entity, and thus killing it would be wrong at that point.

 

[Joeygum]

You call them a human fetus, but God calls them a human being

Perhaps it is the women's responsibility to take care of them in the womb, and it is her responsibility if she murders the child

Wrong with all due respect Mam! You are completely wrong and are wicked in your words

Killing it is wrong at the point of Conception and afterwards, no more excuses

Repent for your words are false and in wicked form

The fact you can sit here and say its ok to murder a baby is shocking and scary

May God save this world, for I guarantee you by the Lord's final return every abortion clinic will be shut down, and God will have vengeance on those who have not repented for killing their child