Abortion Discussion

[AirPo]

Another lie. While some people may only want healthy white children, and that's their own decision, others step up to the plate and take the children who need the most love, the most care, the most sacrifice. That's the Christian thing to do. Ironically, those who need the most love, care, and sacrifice often produce the most reward to the adoptive parents.

Then show me the waiting list for crack babies.

 

[Archivist]

We'll wait.....I am assuming you also have adoption rates broke down by race of the person adopting?

No, as I said twice I'm saying thsi from memory. I'm going to have to look things up when I have time.

 

[civilwarbuff]

And as I have said twice, we will wait.....

 

[KCfromNC]

That's why it works so well, I guess!

That's what the research shows. There's a reason that there are far more teen pregnancies in states with without comprehensive sex education.

The simplest, the ABSOLUTE simplest way to reduce the number of abortions is to reduce the number of pregnancies by encouraging kids not to have sex until they're married.

I'd prefer an effective way rather than just a simple-minded one that doesn't actually help.

Birth control is an evil. No way around it. It leads to false sense of security that engaging in pleasure has no consequences, and indulging in such pleasure is a no-risk endeavor.

Ah yeah, the "I'm bothered that somewhere a woman might be enjoying sex" side of the anti-abortion motivation shines through. It can hide behind "it's a cute baby" rhetoric for a while but it never seems to be too far from the surface.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Ah yeah, the "I'm bothered that somewhere a woman might be enjoying sex" side of the anti-abortion motivation shines through.

And that info comes from where....the ether?...or is that just your "opinion?....which is really the same thing.....which we can all write off as a $3 bill.....

 

[ToddNotTodd]

And as I have said twice, we will wait.....

I just Googled it and found four separate articles specifying that black children and children with disabilities have a harder time getting adopted. It wasn't terribly difficult...

 

[BiblicalAstronomy]

Thanks for your responses...
The First Adam was the Prototypical form for ALL Human Life, whether he was created from dust or not does not change the truth that we are made of the same elements, and he was not a Living soul until he took his first breath. This Biblical archetype is so strong that it is even compared to our Spiritual New Birth, when believers first manifested the gift of holy spirit as speaking in tongues on the the Day of Pentecost in Acts! Even the Second Adam our Lord Jesus Christ is called the same "Figure" or tupos as Adam in [Rom. 6:12-21]

Roman 6:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure [TUPOS] of him that was to come."-[CHRIST]

Thus any attempt to differentiate between the human prototype of the 1st Adam and modern man is clearly unwise, unless you want to question the perfection of Christ in the same breath. The big difference between the 1st and 2nd Adam's was the sin of the 1st Adam was carried to all mankind thru his Blood; [Acts 17:26] while Christ being conceived from the perfect sperm God created in Mary, that became Jesus Christ with perfect sinless blood, making him the only perfect sacrifice for all mankind's Sin. It has been proved in the medical field that the blood comes from the Male side thus we can see the Wisdom of the Almighty in how His perfect plan of redemption for man fits together in detail. It is also medical common knowledge that our blood carries the oxygen to the cells of our body, which is based on breathing-hence the name-breath of life... This is not "my version" of the case but shows how the medical field supports the truth of Scripture as we know it... in [Levi 17:11, Gen. 2:7, Romans 6]

 

[Archivist]

I just Googled it and found four separate articles specifying that black children and children with disabilities have a harder time getting adopted. It wasn't terribly difficult...

Thanks ToddnotTodd. I didn't think it would be hard to find, but I made the claim so I wasn't going to argue the point. I thought that it was pretty much common knowledge but apparently not. Unfortunately I'm in a seminar so I can't do much right now.

 

[Root of Jesse]

No, that isn't a lie. The statistics back that up.

Statistics. Lie. Ask someone who's unemployed what the unemployment rate is. Regardless of whether it's 1% or 10% for him, it's 100%. I've been employed for 28 years with only a 3 month gap in there, so my unemployment rate is about 1%. Statistics lie.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Yep. And I've got years worth of newsletters where the black kids or the kids with disabilities just keep get older and the white toddlers get snatched up. This was happening even with an adoption waiting list. Add in that I live in the heart of the Bible belt, and you have a lot of Christians ignoring anything but healthy white kids.

It is natural for people to adopt those who are like themselves. I remember when people would talk behind the hand about how light skinned blacks weren't pure and such. (whether they were racist or not, I don't know) It is also natural that someone without financial means wouldn't be in a position to take on the challenge you're demanding they take.

 

[KCfromNC]

And that info comes from where

The quote with the option that people who enjoy pleasure need to suffer consequences for it. I know what that means in these discussions.

 

[KCfromNC]

Statistics. Lie. Ask someone who's unemployed what the unemployment rate is. Regardless of whether it's 1% or 10% for him, it's 100%. I've been employed for 28 years with only a 3 month gap in there, so my unemployment rate is about 1%. Statistics lie.

It is natural for people to adopt those who are like themselves. I remember when people would talk behind the hand about how light skinned blacks weren't pure and such. (whether they were racist or not, I don't know) It is also natural that someone without financial means wouldn't be in a position to take on the challenge you're demanding they take.

If the statistics lie, why are you trying to explain the reasons why they accurately represent the reality of the situation? I'd pick one rationalization or the other rather than contradictory ones in consecutive posts.

"My client didn't steal that car. Besides, he returned it unharmed that very night so you should take it easy on him".

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

Douglas Hendrickson said: ↑
It is not true that what is in the womb (not a baby) is "exactly the same as the baby out of the womb." A primary difference is the real baby has used lungs actually working lungs, breathing the breath of life. It has eyes that have opened when it is no longer parasitically imprisoned in a womb, and many sensory and reflex actions of actually used organs. It is autonomous in that it is, unlike the fetus, not totally dependent for subsistence on a tubal connection to a woman. And most importantly, it then first an animal, an animal being, the member of a species, a human being.

↑Root of Jesse said: [URL='http://www.christianforums.com/goto/post?id=69392637#post-69392637']↑[/URL]
It's as much a baby in the womb as an acorn is an oak tree. In other words, completely the same, in terms of DNA.
What's DNA have to do with it?

Do I need to start at the beginning? DNA proves humanity, or oak-tree-ity.

Of course an acorn is NOT an oak tree, everybody knows that (or do they?) An oak tree is definitely growing in the ground (or become dead). An acorn is definitely not growing in the ground. It may sprout there and strart the growth of a tree, it may in that sense become a tree. but is not, qua acorn, a tree. The same DNA proves the "oak-ity, but not the "tree-ity."

Or in other words, the contents of the womb is never itself a baby (human being), just like the acorn is never itself a tree.

 

[civilwarbuff]

The quote with the option that people who enjoy pleasure need to suffer consequences for it. I know what that means in these discussions.

You did not answer the question I noticed.....not surprised......

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I didn't think it would be, but I made the claim so I wasn't going to argue the point. I thought that it was pretty much common knowledge but apparently not. Unfortunately I'm in a seminar so I can't do much right now.

Personally, I think it's probably a waste of your time to post any studies, since the amount of effort it takes to try and justify facts to people who probably won't believe them no matter what is prohibitive.

It's enough for me to know that I've been around adoption agencies for years, and every single person I've talked to says black and disabled kids don't get adopted like white kids do.

 

[AirPo]

Statistics. Lie. Ask someone who's unemployed what the unemployment rate is. Regardless of whether it's 1% or 10% for him, it's 100%. I've been employed for 28 years with only a 3 month gap in there, so my unemployment rate is about 1%. Statistics lie.

That's not how the unemployment rate works.

 

[AirPo]

Statistics. Lie. Ask someone who's unemployed what the unemployment rate is. Regardless of whether it's 1% or 10% for him, it's 100%. I've been employed for 28 years with only a 3 month gap in there, so my unemployment rate is about 1%. Statistics lie.

Statistics don't lie to people. People lie to people.

 

[Root of Jesse]

That's what the research shows. There's a reason that there are far more teen pregnancies in states with without comprehensive sex education.



I'd prefer an effective way rather than just a simple-minded one that doesn't actually help.



Ah yeah, the "I'm bothered that somewhere a woman might be enjoying sex" side of the anti-abortion motivation shines through. It can hide behind "it's a cute baby" rhetoric for a while but it never seems to be too far from the surface.

I don't know any Catholic who thinks a woman shouldn't enjoy sex. That's a straw man as far as I'm concerned. Regarding cute babies, are you going to start judging people by what they consider cute? Honestly, some people, myself included, find handicapped children 'cute'. I love Down's syndrome kids-they're beautiful to me. I know others who believe so, too.

 

[civilwarbuff]

That's not how the unemployment rate works.

The official rate is those who apply for or are receiving unemployment benefits or are looking for jobs thru unemployment services. They are the ones counted. The real rate includes those who have given up or are underemployed....those working parttime jobs instead of fulltime....the difference is staggering. That is why during an expansion the unemployment rate goes up because people "officially" re-enter the workforce and are once again counted.

 

[AirPo]

The official rate is those who apply for or are receiving unemployment benefits or are looking for jobs thru unemployment services. They are the ones counted. The real rate includes those who have given up or are underemployed....those working parttime jobs instead of fulltime....the difference is staggering. That is why during an expansion the unemployment rate goes up because people "officially" re-enter the workforce and are once again counted.

Which is nothing like the post I was replying to.