Abortion 100% legal in Oregon, and 100% FREE for everyone!!!!

[~Anastasia~]

Thank you. Peace to you, also. I feel I've been spending too much time here. Need more time in prayer and prudent readings, including Othodox. Feeling drained.... not sure how to address my youth on Friday...hoping prayer and fasting will clear my mind. Thoughts on being charitable while absolutely anti-abortion and pro-life are difficult, given the number of babies I've seen miscarried and aborted n my career. Lost Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

I understand. I hope you get the refreshing you need. Always good to be able to recognize that need. Will be glad to see you back however/whenever is good for you.

My apologies to the OP for being a little off topic.

I really don't have anything to say that would sound charitable.

I think I'll just leave this here ...

Christ loves the innocents. (He loves the guilty too ... but this image has a special place in my heart.)

Lord have mercy, indeed.

 

[“Paisios”]

I understand. I hope you get the refreshing you need. Always good to be able to recognize that need. Will be glad to see you back however/whenever is good for you.

My apologies to the OP for being a little off topic.

I really don't have anything to say that would sound charitable.

I think I'll just leave this here ...

View attachment 208010

Christ loves the innocents. (He loves the guilty too ... but this image has a special place in my heart.)

Lord have mercy, indeed.

I ask your forgiveness. I am preoccupied with the youth in my youth group, and firmly believe that God is calling me to minister to them rather than my own conscience for now...without being unorthodox. Thus my harshness, and unforgiveness...I know that God forgives all, but looks for a higher standard...forgive me, Lord, that my youth reflect this better than I do....Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner....when Gandhi was asked to give up sugar for a child, he replied to return on two weeks so he could give up sugar...God grant me the strength, grace and mercy to relectcthe love of Christ for the next two weeks....one day will be difficult for a sinner like me...

 

[“Paisios”]

That is interesting Thank you for sharing! By special education, I mean people with things like Down Syndrome, Mental Illnesses like ADHD (the ones who cannot handle our regular children's/adult programs), and other diseases that make social activity difficult or impossible. We only have one student who is non-verbal, but we have others that are too lost in space to really communicate. There are others that interact with our Bible Lesson. It is more of a story time. We use flannels to help the kids focus. We allow them to Velcro the people/figures to the board so they can learn. We have memory verses that we help them repeat. It is super cool. We have a special group, but nonetheless we try to meet the needs of each individual

I understand. I hope you get the refreshing you need. Always good to be able to recognize that need. Will be glad to see you back however/whenever is good for you.

My apologies to the OP for being a little off topic.

I really don't have anything to say that would sound charitable.

I think I'll just leave this here ...

View attachment 208010

Christ loves the innocents. (He loves the guilty too ... but this image has a special place in my heart.)

Lord have mercy, indeed.

Thank you for the first icon...a glimpse of heaven it is, and may be for others...

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

.........except taxpayers and their insurance premiums.

Kate Brown, Ore., governor, celebrates law making abortions free, including for illegal immigrants

Is it anymore expensive, than what we have to for pregnant women. And other people's choices. No.

 

[Zoii]

Whats the view on the "morning after pill"

 

[~Anastasia~]

I ask your forgiveness. I am preoccupied with the youth in my youth group, and firmly believe that God is calling me to minister to them rather than my own conscience for now...without being unorthodox. Thus my harshness, and unforgiveness...I know that God forgives all, but looks for a higher standard...forgive me, Lord, that my youth reflect this better than I do....Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner....when Gandhi was asked to give up sugar for a child, he replied to return on two weeks so he could give up sugar...God grant me the strength, grace and mercy to relectcthe love of Christ for the next two weeks....one day will be difficult for a sinner like me...

There is nothing for you to ask forgiveness from me.

We are to forgive all of course.

God OFFERS forgiveness to all. He does not demand they accept it. We have to be properly disposed. Thing is, that's between each person and God, so I/we have no place except to be forgiving. But that sometimes takes time and practice too.

Sounds like your youth can serve as inspiration to you as well.

God be with you. And you have my prayers.

 

[jayem]

Assuming that nothing goes wrong and not counting the risk for increase female problems down the road... It is cheaper for the insured to just use birth control and not get pregnant until they actually want to have a baby.

I agree completely that use of birth control is the far more preferable option. And unless there are medical contraindications, there is little excuse not to use contraception. As long as ACA is in effect, all insurance plans must cover FDA-approved contraceptives without cost-sharing. Unless the insurance is provided by a religious organization, or a closely-held private company with religious objections. (As per the Hobby Lobby case.) And according to the video, this law also exempts religious insurance providers from paying for the abortion provision.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I see the argument being put forth here in a few cases that cost is a valid factor in determining the best medical course to pursue in the question of what to do with a human life?

If that were the case, every person who is diagnosed with cancer is probably too expensive to treat and should be euthanized. (God forbid!) After all, the cost there would be less than $100 while cancer treatment often runs into hundreds of thousands of dollars.

And everyone who reaches an age where the body declines to the point of needing ongoing medical care is financially a bad risk. Cheaper to euthanize them too.

Any child who is born with or develops a medical condition requiring a lifetime of medical support of any degree ... the cost effective thing to do would be to simply kill them as soon as they are diagnosed.

Really, terminating life is so much more cost effective that only people who are completely healthy are "worth" keeping alive, from a monetary aspect - wouldn't that be the best financial decision? There would be no need to "waste" funds on nursing homes, catastrophic illness, programs for the disabled, anyone who needs ongoing medical treatment for any condition, or even palliative care.

But why stop there! We can evaluate the value of each individual relative to society, vs. the cost of maintaining their lives, and make decisions based on who is worth allowing to live in that scenario too. Obviously the homeless and the long-term unemployed should come first. Maybe retirees have actually outlived their usefulness. We could start evaluating children for their potential contribution, and making distinctions early in life concerning which ones are the most potentially cost-effective! Surely we don't "need" all of those children in this over-populated world, and some will not ever amount to anything worthy to justify their continued place in society? We could avoid most of the expenses incurred in a couple of decades of maturing and educating them.

Yes, I can see where it would be wise to use cost as the basis to evaluate the value of human life, and make decisions accordingly. That's a "wonderful" precedent to establish ...

/sarcasm off

 

[Nithavela]

I think everyone should be killed. That would be cheapest in the long run.

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

I think everyone should be killed. That would be cheapest in the long run.

Hey bro.

Man that is morbid thing to say. I hope everything is ok in your life friend?

 

[KCfromNC]

I see the argument being put forth here in a few cases that cost is a valid factor in determining the best medical course to pursue in the question of what to do with a human life?

I think it is more recognizing an ironic side effect of not having the government make some types of medical care illegal.

 

[blackribbon]

I see the argument being put forth here in a few cases that cost is a valid factor in determining the best medical course to pursue in the question of what to do with a human life?

If that were the case, every person who is diagnosed with cancer is probably too expensive to treat and should be euthanized. (God forbid!) After all, the cost there would be less than $100 while cancer treatment often runs into hundreds of thousands of dollars.

And everyone who reaches an age where the body declines to the point of needing ongoing medical care is financially a bad risk. Cheaper to euthanize them too.

Any child who is born with or develops a medical condition requiring a lifetime of medical support of any degree ... the cost effective thing to do would be to simply kill them as soon as they are diagnosed.

Really, terminating life is so much more cost effective that only people who are completely healthy are "worth" keeping alive, from a monetary aspect - wouldn't that be the best financial decision? There would be no need to "waste" funds on nursing homes, catastrophic illness, programs for the disabled, anyone who needs ongoing medical treatment for any condition, or even palliative care.

But why stop there! We can evaluate the value of each individual relative to society, vs. the cost of maintaining their lives, and make decisions based on who is worth allowing to live in that scenario too. Obviously the homeless and the long-term unemployed should come first. Maybe retirees have actually outlived their usefulness. We could start evaluating children for their potential contribution, and making distinctions early in life concerning which ones are the most potentially cost-effective! Surely we don't "need" all of those children in this over-populated world, and some will not ever amount to anything worthy to justify their continued place in society? We could avoid most of the expenses incurred in a couple of decades of maturing and educating them.

Yes, I can see where it would be wise to use cost as the basis to evaluate the value of human life, and make decisions accordingly. That's a "wonderful" precedent to establish ...

/sarcasm off

This is what happens under government run single pay health care. Rationed health care. Canada does it currently by taking so long to treat that most patients don't live long enough to get the expensive care that could treatment them if they had just gotten it quickly.

Personally, as a postpartum/gyn nurse, I believe every baby is precious and that they are fully human from conception. I have cared for more than one family grieving the loss of even a 14 week old fetus/baby....mom was fighting to have a cremation and funeral for her precious daughter. I have been in the NICU with moms as they sit there for hours and hours crying and praying over their sweet little micropreemies. My hospital is amazing and most of the babies that survive 24 hours do eventually get to go home. I just saw that two of my 26 weekers have been discharged home. These babies were so tiny and delicate at birth that I doubted their ability to survive. I am glad they proved me wrong. Three cheers for a medical system that does not put a price tag on these baby's value as people. We try to save them all.

 

[~Anastasia~]

This is what happens under government run single pay health care. Rationed health care. Canada does it currently by taking so long to treat that most patients don't live long enough to get the expensive care that could treatment them if they had just gotten it quickly.

Personally, as a postpartum/gyn nurse, I believe every baby is precious and that they are fully human from conception. I have cared for more than one family grieving the loss of even a 14 week old fetus/baby....mom was fighting to have a cremation and funeral for her precious daughter. I have been in the NICU with moms as they sit there for hours and hours crying and praying over their sweet little micropreemies. My hospital is amazing and most of the babies that survive 24 hours do eventually get to go home. I just saw that two of my 26 weekers have been discharged home. These babies were so tiny and delicate at birth that I doubted their ability to survive. I am glad they proved me wrong. Three cheers for a medical system that does not put a price tag on these baby's value as people. We try to save them all.

Complete agreement.

I was diagnosed with cancer, and very thankful that the response was immediate treatment. And I was in love with my daughter from the point I knew she was on the way ... she was as precious to me before she was born as after.

Personally I do see issues in health care, but rather than deciding the value of a life (which I don't see the US doing, at least not in the vast majority of cases) I think if we could fix certain costs there must be a better way of doing things. I realize certain medical equipment is expensive and specialized, and I believe medical professionals should be paid in relation to the long term specialized education required and the importance of their work. But some things ... my daily dose of medication costing $10 in hospital, when a 30-day supply is only a few dollars, and when the plastic breathing-exercise device they gave me billed at $300 when it clearly would be profitable to sell at $30, and so on might be the more obvious places to begin, from my own hospital bills. My PT offers a 70% or greater discount for self-pay, so the reduced rate is clearly "enough" to be profitable, but when insurance is involved, the bill is significantly higher.

There are probably issues I'm unaware of there. But clearly improvements could be made.

 

[Belk]

This is what happens under government run single pay health care. Rationed health care. Canada does it currently by taking so long to treat that most patients don't live long enough to get the expensive care that could treatment them if they had just gotten it quickly.

Personally, as a postpartum/gyn nurse, I believe every baby is precious and that they are fully human from conception. I have cared for more than one family grieving the loss of even a 14 week old fetus/baby....mom was fighting to have a cremation and funeral for her precious daughter. I have been in the NICU with moms as they sit there for hours and hours crying and praying over their sweet little micropreemies. My hospital is amazing and most of the babies that survive 24 hours do eventually get to go home. I just saw that two of my 26 weekers have been discharged home. These babies were so tiny and delicate at birth that I doubted their ability to survive. I am glad they proved me wrong. Three cheers for a medical system that does not put a price tag on these baby's value as people. We try to save them all.

Got a citation for that?

 

[blackribbon]

Got a citation for that?

I have an example. This teenager (yes, young person) died waiting for her term to get a ROOM in the hospital. She had a donor which is usually the hardest part. Her dying wish was to have it known that the system in Canada is broken. Laura Hillier died of leukemia while waiting for hospital bed despite having a donor | Daily Mail Online

While my husband was fighting cancer, I was on a melanoma board. I was speaking with one woman in Canada who was excited to get her PET scan scheduled....in 6 months. Well, a PET scan is only diagnostic and the type of melanoma she had been diagnosed with the same extremely fast growing form as my husband. I got sick because I understood that without treatment ( or some extreme intervention for God ), she would be dead before her PET scan appointment....or at the best scenerio, beyond treatment. My husband was rushed through all his appointments. Got the path results on Saturday, first doctor appointment on Tues, wrong doctor but given a good referral, saw that referral on Thursday, Surgery on Monday......all people who saw his diagnoses and jumped him to the front of the line for consults and surgies.

 

[blackribbon]

More:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-08-03/canadians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wait-times-for-health-care-in-canada-2016

Quote from second citation:
"Research has repeatedly indicated that wait times for medically necessary treatment are not benign inconveniences. Wait times can, and do, have serious consequences such as increased pain, suffering, and mental anguish. In certain instances, they can also result in poorer medical outcomes—transforming potentially reversible illnesses or injuries into chronic, irreversible conditions, or even permanent disabilities. In many instances, patients may also have to forgo their wages while they wait for treatment, resulting in an economic cost to the individuals themselves and the economy in general."

 

[Belk]

I have an example. This teenager (yes, young person) died waiting for her term to get a ROOM in the hospital. She had a donor which is usually the hardest part. Her dying wish was to have it known that the system in Canada is broken. Laura Hillier died of leukemia while waiting for hospital bed despite having a donor | Daily Mail Online

While my husband was fighting cancer, I was on a melanoma board. I was speaking with one woman in Canada who was excited to get her PET scan scheduled....in 6 months. Well, a PET scan is only diagnostic and the type of melanoma she had been diagnosed with the same extremely fast growing form as my husband. I got sick because I understood that without treatment ( or some extreme intervention for God ), she would be dead before her PET scan appointment....or at the best scenerio, beyond treatment. My husband was rushed through all his appointments. Got the path results on Saturday, first doctor appointment on Tues, wrong doctor but given a good referral, saw that referral on Thursday, Surgery on Monday......all people who saw his diagnoses and jumped him to the front of the line for consults and surgies.

A singular example makes a very poor data point for what you claim to be a widespread practice of waiting for people to die. For such a serious accusation you would need thousands of examples in order to establish a pattern.

 

[Belk]

Abortion 100% legal in Oregon

And everywhere else in the US.

 

[blackribbon]

A singular example makes a very poor data point for what you claim to be a widespread practice of waiting for people to die. For such a serious accusation you would need thousands of examples in order to establish a pattern.

I added two more citations and can add as many as you want. How many do you need?

 

[Tanj]

More:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-08-03/canadians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care

Not this again. How many times is this misleading statistic going to be plastered on this board? about 10x more Americans go abroad for healthcare than visa versa

https://www.quora.com/How-many-Americans-travel-to-Canada-for-healthcare-and-vice-versa