A Third Temple In Jerusalem, Breaking News?

[Steve Petersen]

Apparently, neither can this Catholic theologian and educator...
Are We Living in the Last Days?

“The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable” (Rom 11:29) - A reflection on theological questions pertaining to Catholic-Jewish relations (10 December 2015)

 

[BABerean2]

“The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable” (Rom 11:29) - A reflection on theological questions pertaining to Catholic-Jewish relations (10 December 2015)

From your link above...

"4. The relationship between the Old and New Testament and the Old and New Covenant


27. The covenant that God has offered Israel is irrevocable. "God is not man, that he should lie" (Num 23:19; cf. 2 Tim 2:13). The permanent elective fidelity of God expressed in earlier covenants is never repudiated (cf. Rom 9:4; 11:1–2). The New Covenant does not revoke the earlier covenants, but it brings them to fulfilment."

The Abrahamic Covenant is irrevocable, through the one seed found in Galatians 3:16.

However, in Galatians 3:16-29 the Apostle Paul reveals the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant.
Paul says the Law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

What does the scripture below say about the Sinai Covenant?


Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. (from Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


When a carpenter fulfills a contract to build a house the contract to build that house becomes "obsolete".
Christ was the only one to ever keep the Old Covenant, perfectly.

He has built us a new house out of two pieces of wood and a handful of nails.

Salvation now comes only through the New Covenant fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary, and is offered equally to all races of people.

Based on Hebrews 13:20 the New Covenant is "everlasting".
Therefore, it cannot end before the Second Coming of Christ.

Anyone who says there is now salvation outside of the New Covenant Church is promoting some form of Dual Covenant Theology, which is the true form of "Replacement Theology".


.

 

[Steve Petersen]

My post #118 stated the the Vatican had abandoned replacement theology. That is why I posted the statement. See section 2, paragraphs 17 and 18 of the Vatican Statement.

You set opinion of one priest against the Vatican council.

 

[jgr]

Jeremiah 31:35

Thus says the Lord,
who gives the sun for light by day
and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—
the Lord of hosts is his name:
36 “If this fixed order departs
from before me, declares the Lord,
then shall the offspring of Israel cease
from being a nation before me forever.”

37 Thus says the Lord:
“If the heavens above can be measured,
and the foundations of the earth below can be explored,
then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel
for all that they have done,
declares the Lord.”

Matthew 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Israel ceased to be a nation in 70 AD. Even if you consider it to have been revived in 1948, it was still "ceased" for over 1800 years; and thus does not qualify as a fulfillment of Jeremiah's declaration.

There is only one nation that has never ceased to be. It is God's Holy Nation of true believers, His Children of faith and obedience.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Israel ceased to be a nation in 70 AD. Even if you consider it to have been revived in 1948, it was still "ceased" for over 1800 years; and thus does not qualify as a fulfillment of Jeremiah's declaration.

There is only one nation that has never ceased to be. It is God's Holy Nation of true believers, His Children of faith and obedience.

This is what we call replacement theology.

Paul says Israel's gifts and calling are irrevocable.

 

[tampasteve]

Israel ceased to be a nation in 70 AD. Even if you consider it to have been revived in 1948, it was still "ceased" for over 1800 years; and thus does not qualify as a fulfillment of Jeremiah's declaration.

There is only one nation that has never ceased to be. It is God's Holy Nation of true believers, His Children of faith and obedience.

Israel as a people never ceased to exist, the country they founded and land they occupied may have been taken from them for quite a while, but as a nation, the Jewish people were scattered and persevered. The Jewish people and nation are more than an ethnic group in a particular land, just as the Christian Nation is more than one people in one land.

 

[jgr]

This is what we call replacement theology.

Paul says Israel's gifts and calling are irrevocable.

How can something which did not exist be replaced?

 

[jgr]

Israel as a people never ceased to exist, the country they founded and land they occupied may have been taken from them for quite a while, but as a nation, the Jewish people were scattered and persevered. The Jewish people and nation are more than an ethnic group in a particular land, just as the Christian Nation is more than one people in one land.

They ceased to exist as a nation in 70 AD.

 

[Steve Petersen]

How can something which did not exist be replaced?

Israel as the descendants of Jacob never ceased. As a nation, sure. Twice.

 

[jgr]

Israel as the descendants of Jacob never ceased. As a nation, sure. Twice.

As acknowledged and applauded by the Jewish religiocultural community itself, Israel is now found genetically within virtually the whole human race.

Abraham lineage

DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?

Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places

 

[Steve Petersen]

As acknowledged and applauded by the Jewish religiocultural community itself, Israel is now found genetically within virtually the whole human race.

Abraham lineage

DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?

Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places

First article says nothing of the sort.

Neither does the second.

Neither does the third.

Where from these articles are you coming up with 'Israel is now found genetically within virtually the whole human race?'

 

[tampasteve]

They ceased to exist as a nation in 70 AD.

Even the date of 70 does not make sense in the use you are using it. The country/ies of Israel/Judah existed and were destroyed around 720 BC - the first time. Then as provinces of various empires until around 110 BC in the Maccabean revolt. Then nominally independent as a client of Rome starting in 63 BC...but a full fledged Roman Province in 6 AD. Of course in 70 AD the Temple was destroyed, but even then the Jewish people were allowed in Jerusalem until around 138 AD after the Bar Kokhba revolt.

So in your way of using the destruction of the Jewish Nation it would be in 6 AD when the Romans were officially in charge. But in that thinking the "nation" stopped existing a couple of times. It makes much more sense to believe that the Jewish people are the nation, not necessarily tied to the land in the middle east.

As acknowledged and applauded by the Jewish religiocultural community itself, Israel is now found genetically within virtually the whole human race.

Abraham lineage

DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?

Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places

Being Jewish is not just about genes, one can convert and one's children are then Jewish (provided the mother converts before having the child). There are markers in the genes that can point to a heritage that might be Jewish, but that does not mean the line was kept alive.

 

[jgr]

First article says nothing of the sort.

Neither does the second.

Neither does the third.

Where from these articles are you coming up with 'Israel is now found genetically within virtually the whole human race?'

What are(n't) you reading?

First article:

"And indeed, the number of people in the world today with the “Abrahamic Genetic Signature” is too large to count precisely. A reasonable estimate is in the hundreds of millions."

That was over ten years ago, when genetic testing was in relative infancy.

That number has only grown since.

The other articles have similar observations.

 

[jgr]

So in your way of using the destruction of the Jewish Nation it would be in 6 AD when the Romans were officially in charge. But in that thinking the "nation" stopped existing a couple of times. It makes much more sense to believe that the Jewish people are the nation, not necessarily tied to the land in the middle east.

According to the accepted political and legal definition of "nation", Israel was not a nation between 70 AD and 1948 AD.

Being Jewish is not just about genes, one can convert and one's children are then Jewish (provided the mother converts before having the child). There are markers in the genes that can point to a heritage that might be Jewish, but that does not mean the line was kept alive.

It is among Jews in Scripture.

Matthew 3:9 King James Version (KJV)

9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

 

[Steve Petersen]

What are(n't) you reading?

First article:

"And indeed, the number of people in the world today with the “Abrahamic Genetic Signature” is too large to count precisely. A reasonable estimate is in the hundreds of millions."

That was over ten years ago, when genetic testing was in relative infancy.

That number has only grown since.

The other articles have similar observations.

100 million is but 1/3 of the population of the US. Hardly 'virtually the whole human race' even if it increased in the last 10 years.

 

[jgr]

100 million is but 1/3 of the population of the US. Hardly 'virtually the whole human race' even if it increased in the last 10 years.

A more-than-ten-year-old estimate, based on crude technology, which is more than ten times the population of Israel today.

How will they all fit in when it comes time for them to return?

 

[Steve Petersen]

A more-than-ten-year-old estimate, based on crude technology, which is more than ten times the population of Israel today.

How will they all fit in when it comes time for them to return?

Not my problem. Five cities the size of Cairo should do it though. About 1000 square miles (33.3 by 33.3 miles) should fit in Israel.

 

[parousia70]

Show me anywhere in the Bible where Israel has ever received Jesus as their Messiah.

Acts 2:36-41
36“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
37Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
38Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39For the promise is to you and, 32to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
40And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” 41Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.

Prove that the Above 3000 people are NOT "Israel receiving Jesus as their Messiah", as you claim.

there are not two Israels! The one nation of Israel, in the middle east today, is thvery same Israel of the Bible!

Prove it.
You can't. You have only assumption and tradition.

The truth is they have no verifiable relation to the pre desolation Hebrew People. Not Genetically, not religiously and not politically. Todays Israel is a MULTI ETHNIC SECUALR DEMOCRATIC NATION STATE.
Hardly the Hebrew Theocracy of scriptural Israel.

You are simply flat wrong.

There will be two more temples built in Jerusalem, according to the Scriptures!


Quasar92

Well, I'm not holding my breath, and if you are truly 92 years old, you might not want to either.

 

[tampasteve]

According to the accepted political and legal definition of "nation", Israel was not a nation between 70 AD and 1948 AD.

Can you cite the 70 AD date for anything other than that rebellion and destruction of the Temple? Most of what I read shows basically the dates I mentioned. 1948 is without debate, of course.

 

[parousia70]

Can you cite the 70 AD date for anything other than that rebellion and destruction of the Temple? Most of what I read shows basically the dates I mentioned. 1948 is without debate, of course.

I'll debate 1948