• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Status
Not open for further replies.

John Lamb

Active Member
Jan 2, 2024
41
7
57
Douglas IOM
✟2,851.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Well, I wouldn't put it quite like that. I mean "Poor saps, stay down there and pay the bill."
Well you said that. However, a tin of any food left in my loft, or anywhere in the house, wouldn’t be a mocking gesture. It is highly likely someone will enter during the Tribulation. Any tins will be accompanied with a sensible, serious message about avoiding the mark of the beast. That could change a person’s future. It would be pointless leaving a load of food supplies though.
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
8,319
2,620
44
Helena
✟267,375.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Amos 8 says after the 6th seal you won't be able to find the word of God anymore, and the parable of the 10 virgins doesn't tell the 5 foolish virgins to come back later.

I just don't get where pretrib get their idea of salvation after Jesus comes, other than forcing it to explain why there are saints being persecuted after their imagined, unscriptural pretribulation poof.
 
Upvote 0

Kokavkrystallos

Well-Known Member
Jan 1, 2024
1,141
645
Farmington
✟55,824.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Widowed

This is why we must, as Mark 13 says "watch and pray" for ye know not when the time is. The main thing is to look up when the events described begin to come to pass, for your redemption draweth nigh. It's not time to be partying, living in carnal lusts, selfishness, and all the things so many Laodicean churches are doing, thinking it's all gonna be ok.
Watch and Pray. part of watching is being diligent to be found in Christ, repentant, being washed with the water of the word and by the blood of the Lamb. Redeeming the time as the days are evil.
And in Mark 13 He mentions 4 different times he could come, and that we don't know. Evening, Midnight, Cockcrowing, Morning.
Most everyone overlooks that. Meditate on that.
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
8,319
2,620
44
Helena
✟267,375.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Well that statement is that it could be at any time of day, it isn't saying He's going to come back 4 times.

There is only one second coming, but I do not believe it is Revelation 19 but rather earlier (as Jesus is already covered in blood in Revelation 19 for one)

But what I mean is that.. this whole "pretribulation poof" and "left behind" hollywood nonsense has this entire belief system that they should leave "rapture kits" and that people will come to faith after millions of people suddenly vanish and they realize 'oh the Christians were right!'

But the bible doesn't paint that picture at all. It paints a picture of Jesus coming back, people being unprepared, and there is no salvation for them after, like it's too late. It's not covered as a "well they just go through the 7 year tribulation" either it's covered as "Jesus will deny knowing you"

Amos 8
Earthquake, sun and moon darkening, lamenting and mourning, it's the 6th seal, the Day of the Lord.
After the sixth seal, people cannot find the word of God, nor anyone preaching it.
They'll look for it, they'll WANT salvation
but be totally unable to find it.

Where does this post rapture coming to faith idea come from aside from Hollywood?
 
Upvote 0

returntosender

EL ROI
Site Supporter
May 30, 2020
9,760
4,407
casa grande
✟414,494.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I never read the book long posts but i did yours. I applaud your memorization!. You have a good grasp of things. I wish i was as cleared headed and informed. Keep on keeping on and God bless you
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
8,319
2,620
44
Helena
✟267,375.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
This confuses me. What must we be prepared for? We've been preparing for years. We won't go with Jesus if we don't see him, what,?
For deception, persecution, and to endure in the faith through it, and when the time comes.. to not be like Lot's wife.
Jesus warned
Luke 17

What'd Lot's wife do? She looked back at the life she was leaving behind in Sodom, she was in the midst of escape... and perished.

I can't be exactly sure but that warning makes me think it's possible to end up choosing your life on Earth, not wanting to leave it behind....
and Lot's wife wasn't saved 7 years later.
She perished.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
15,099
2,595
84
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟351,914.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Be prepared – the Scouts motto!
Most of us are probably not as interested as we should be in end times issues. Perhaps we have no intention of changing our views before the Return of Jesus, or death takes us away from it all. If it turns out that we die before Christ returns, then what is the difference? Would you really want to stand in His presence and admit you were not concerned about the truths taught in His Word? But what if you are still here during the Great Tribulation?

It is clear, from the Bible, that God does want His servants to be aware of His plans and be prepared, physically and spiritually for what must come.
Titus 2:13 tells us what we are waiting for: the glorious appearing of Jesus Christ. His coming will be seen by all, accompanied by a trumpet blast heard around the world. Those who say that there will be a “secret coming” before that event, a “rapture” have no Biblical justification for such a thing to happen. There will be a group, the elect, who will be taken to a place of safety, on earth, during the 3½ year Tribulation period. Revelation 12:6.

The Church will still be on earth when Jesus returns. Otherwise, we would not need to be exhorted to continue with righteous attitudes and activities until He comes.2Timothy 4:1-8, 1 Peter 1:13 & 4:12-13 & 5:1-4, 1 Corinthians 4:5, James 5:7-8, 1 Thess. 3:13, Philip. 1:9-11.

A Scripture passage often pointed to as a “rapture” text is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. But that plainly refers to the Return of Jesus. Paul describes those in Jerusalem ‘rising to meet Him in the air’ Firstly, this is simply a meeting, as He descends, and secondly this seems to be a transportation, similar to what Philip experienced, Acts 8:39

Emphasis on looking for a supposed secret coming of Christ to get His church and take it to heaven before the Tribulation, contradicts the writings of the Apostles and the early church fathers, as well as Jesus: John 18:15 I do not pray that You take them out of this world, but that You protect them from the evil one. And many other scriptures. John 3:13

Any new believer, just reading the Bible, without the ‘benefit’ of church teaching and dogma, would read that Jesus promised to Return to the world in glory, accompanied by His angels – Matthew 16:27. He will come after a period of great suffering – Matt. 24:21-30. He will gather His chosen ones then, to live and reign on earth. Matthew 24:30-31, 2 Thess. 2:1.

It hardly seems possible for anyone to arrive at a rapture, pre, mid or post Tribulation, by independent study of the Scriptures. If this teaching is not set out clearly in the Bible, how did it originate? Investigation into the history of the rapture, indicates that it began in Scotland in the early 1800’s, with the visions of Margaret McDonald and was later promoted in England by Edward Irving, J. Darby and others.

As we are now very close to the time when God will act on earth in order to fulfil His plans for His creation, careful study of Bible prophecy can inform us of end time events, even some timing is given to us. Don’t be one who is ignorant of coming events or worse still, have an apathetic attitude. What will Jesus say to you?

1 Corinthians 1:7-9 There is indeed no single gift you lack, while you wait expectantly for our Lord, Jesus Christ to reveal himself. He will keep you firm to the end without reproach until that Day. It is God Himself who called you to share in the life of His Son and God keeps faith.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
15,099
2,595
84
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟351,914.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
I can't be exactly sure but that warning makes me think it's possible to end up choosing your life on Earth, not wanting to leave it behind....
What popple do choose; is to believe, are false teachings and fables. 2 Timothy 4:3-4
In no way can we choose our destiny. We can either keep strong in our Christian faith and receive our rewards when Jesus Returns, Matthew 16:27
Or; renounce God when what was fondly expected to happen - does not.
 
Upvote 0

RandyPNW

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2021
3,534
800
Pacific NW, USA
✟165,775.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I never read the book long posts but i did yours. I applaud your memorization!. You have a good grasp of things. I wish i was as cleared headed and informed. Keep on keeping on and God bless you
I usually try to stay as brief as possible. But I find that without devoting some time to the story it doesn't come across as well. Thanks for your patience, and your kindness!
 
Upvote 0

returntosender

EL ROI
Site Supporter
May 30, 2020
9,760
4,407
casa grande
✟414,494.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Since you've dabbled in all or most can you give a short definition of the choices. I always forget and people throw out a new version.
Pre? Post?, etc. the beast and anti Christ are in there somewhere. Wish someone would devote some time on it as at my age i need something simple. You don't have to but i think coming from you i could believe your version.
 
Upvote 0

returntosender

EL ROI
Site Supporter
May 30, 2020
9,760
4,407
casa grande
✟414,494.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Being prepared live your life as a good Christian sounds like most of you are saying. But That's to be expected. Be alert, living as Jesus, should be our guarantee so we shouldn't have to be alert
It's confusing.
Thanks all
 
Upvote 0

Kokavkrystallos

Well-Known Member
Jan 1, 2024
1,141
645
Farmington
✟55,824.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Widowed

No, I didn't mean He comes back 4 times. But it is saying He could come back any one of those times. Strangely, there are 4 different rapture beliefs: pretrib, mid trib, prewrath, and post trib. All Jesus is saying here is watch and pray for you don't know when He shall come.

Revelation 14:14-20 is the proper place in Revelation:
"And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs."

Son of Man coming on a white cloud: that's Matthew 24, that's 1 Thessalonians 4, that's Rev 1:7, etc.
 
Upvote 0

John Lamb

Active Member
Jan 2, 2024
41
7
57
Douglas IOM
✟2,851.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Strangely, there are 4 different rapture beliefs: pretrib, mid trib, prewrath, and post trib. All Jesus is saying here is watch and pray for you don't know when He shall come.
It is difficult to see it will be a pretrib rapture without wisdom, it isn't described in plain language in the Bible. The Lord does emphasise watching and praying to escape all things. Knowing when the rapture and Tribulation will be is specialised knowledge and not really used to evangelise. But if a genuine Christian told a non-Christian the rapture will be anything but a pretrib rapture, the Christian will be raptured pretrib but the non-Christian might be left behind, they might want to see the signs come true during the Tribulation.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Oseas

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2017
2,409
203
88
Joinville
✟132,526.00
Country
Brazil
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Joshua? Haven't you read? Zechariah 3:3 - Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. Verse 1 - And Satan standing at his right hand.

Zechariah 3:

And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

5 And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord stood by.

6 And the angel of the Lord protested unto Joshua, saying,


7 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.

8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the Branch.

9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

10 In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.

--------------~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~-----------

Your comment remained in the Old Testament. And now, what does it say about CLANDESTICK in the New Testament?

Revelation 1:12-16

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged Sword(Hebrews 4:12-13): and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

Revelation 11:3-6 - short explanation

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, ...


4 These are the two olive trees (SOURCE OF OIL), (Zech.4:3 - And two olive trees by it(by the Church), one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof. (JESUS and the Paraclete-the Comfort-John 15:26 and 16:12-15, and also two Covenants – the Old and New Testaments).

and the two candlesticks(the Hebrew /Jewish Church and Gentile Church) standing before the God of the earth.(God of the earth is the Paraclete-the Comfort-John 15:26 and 16:12-15, who is under the feet of the woman-Rev.12:1).
5 And if any man will hurt them(the two clandesticks-the two Churches), fire proceedeth out of their MOUTH, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These
(the two candlesticks) have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy(END OF THE CURRENT DISPENSATION): and have power over waters (OVER PEOPLES, AND NATIONS, AND MULTITUDES OF ALL TONGUES-Rev.17:15) to turn them to BLOOD, and to SMITE the earth with all PLAGUES, as often as they will. - According GOD's WRATH - Revelation 11:15-18 combined with Daniel 12:1-3 and Revelation 6:14-17- among other biblical references -

Be careful or else get ready
 
Upvote 0

John Lamb

Active Member
Jan 2, 2024
41
7
57
Douglas IOM
✟2,851.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I was wearing mud splattered trousers when Christ stood right in front of me on my third Christophany. You remember, He looked at them and said “Ah, I will come back another day”. At the time I didn’t know He was Christ even though the event felt surreal. I thought this man was referring to walking in Glen Helen which was muddy. It was Christ though, He wasn’t referring to me to become clean but giving a word of wisdom and referencing the parched state the ground in the Valley of Jezreel will be on His Second Coming.
 
Upvote 0

Oseas

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2017
2,409
203
88
Joinville
✟132,526.00
Country
Brazil
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
But now, He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.Revelation 22:11

JESUS still said: Without are dogs(dogs?Isaiah 56:10-11), and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. Revelation 22:15-16
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
8,319
2,620
44
Helena
✟267,375.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single

True, but I see Revelation 14 being the same events as Revelation 6:12-17 as a different narrative rather than Chronologically later. Revelation 6:12-17 and Revelation 7 has the signs like Matthew 24:29-31, including the gathering of the elect.

What I actually see is Jesus coming from heaven, going south (Zechariah 9:14-16, Isaiah 34), then coming back to Jerusalem (7th trumpet and Revelation 16 after the 7th bowl, and shown in Isaiah 63). He only comes from heaven once, but in all the chaos of the trumpets and bowls He takes over kingdoms (why in Revelation 14 He has 1 crown, in Revelation 19 He has many) by Himself, then returns to Jerusalem. Armageddon is the last battle of a campaign.

That is why Revelation 11 has the declaration of the Kingdoms of this world being His, it's the triumphant return to Jerusalem on the white horse (not from heaven, which is on the clouds)
 
Upvote 0

John Lamb

Active Member
Jan 2, 2024
41
7
57
Douglas IOM
✟2,851.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Dogs? Another angel I spoke to had a very effective, alluring Scottish accent and he pronounced them “dawgs”. I quite liked this angel at first who I clumsily assumed was Saint Paul. I had already been acquainted with Paul in a different human form as a supernatural being, he walked by my side for a while. I’m still not sure who this angel was, Satan? He did appear to turn into Satan in later meetings but was still amusing. I wouldn’t want to be a friend though knowing the power he has. Looking at the misinformation Satan fed Muhammad, I can see some did point to the Bible.
 
Upvote 0

RandyPNW

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2021
3,534
800
Pacific NW, USA
✟165,775.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Joshua? Haven't you read? Zechariah 3:3 - Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. Verse 1 - And Satan standing at his right hand.
I don't see your point? Of course I know about Joshua the priest in the book of Zechariah. It was I who just mentioned him!
Your comment remained in the Old Testament. And now, what does it say about CLANDESTICK in the New Testament?
Yes, I was explaining the 2 lampstands in the OT scriptures. The same symbol does not have to carry the same application in the NT Scriptures. That would be an interpretive fallacy, that a single word carries with it a single application in all places where that particular word is used.

Words used like that are called "technical" applications, such as proper nouns, or names. They have to been designated as such before using the same application elsewhere. "Candlestick," or "lampstand," has no such designation in order to justify carrying the same application from OT to NT.

The word does have a technical application in the Bible, in the sense that it commonly refers to the menorah in the Temple. So it has to do with its designated purpose, rather than its application to a particular person or church. It refers, largely, to the lampstand in the Temple, as opposed to any old "lampstand."

In Revelation we see the figure of "candlesticks" being applied to several church congregations in Asia Minor. The image is applied to them to convey that their purpose is to witness to the light of Christ. It has no special relation to Zech 3-4. And I have no reason to apply Joshua and Zechariah to the 2 "lampstands" in Rev 11.

The fact there are *two* of these witnesses merely indicates that their purpose in being "two" is in confirming a testimony. It is not an element designed to compare the "2 Witnesses" of Rev 11 with the "2 founts of oil" in Zech 4.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.