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That has already been addressed. I already said if a person appears to be a man but tells me they are a woman, rather than inspect their underwear, I would assume they are a biological woman and address them accordingly (and visa versa). But this isn't good enough, because if the person tells me they are a Them, a Zi, or Xi I refuse to play that game thus our debate continues.I've got a simpler fix.
If someone says they are a woman, then accept them at their word and address them as a woman. If someone says they are a man, then do likewise.
Well, what makes it not a delusion? I don't feel like a "Nicholas" even though that is in fact my name. I feel like a "Nick" even though that is not in fact my name. I can't rationally explain what it means to feel like one name or another either. So what's the difference between feeling like a name, and feeling like a gender that you would say makes one delusional and not the other?Yes; Nick instead of Nicholas does not cater to mental delusion
If you are going to claim there is a specific feeling associated with the name "Nick", you ARE delusional. People use a shorten version of their name because it's easier to say in casual conversation; not because of a specific feeling associated with the shorten version.Well, what makes it not a delusion? I don't feel like a "Nicholas" even though that is in fact my name. I feel like a "Nick" even though that is not in fact my name. I can't rationally explain what it means to feel like one name or another either. So what's the difference between feeling like a name, and feeling like a gender that you would say makes one delusional and not the other?
No, I don't like it when people call me "Nicholas". It sounds too formal. People change their name all the time because they don't like the feeling of being referred to by whatever name they had. Some folks go by their middle name because of feelings. Abbreviation isn't the sole reason for using a different name than what you find on a birth certificate. So why do you cater to those delusions?If you are going to claim there is a specific feeling associated with the name "Nick", you ARE delusional. People use a shorten version of their name because it's easier to say in casual conversation; not because of a specific feeling associated with the shorten version.
My concern is gender ideology is hijacking areas like medicine, psychology and law because of political correctness. I think that is a dangerous path to go down which can cause more harm than good.
That's OK until we come up against more testing situations where it is important to be sure a person is not just claiming that they are the opposite sex to who they are. This will happen in situations where there are specific requirements for one sex to be eligible such as rest rooms, gyms, medical situations, sports, etc. A male cannot just walk up and say they are a women and then get open access to places that women may occupy. This is the difficulty we are facing at the moment in how do we accommodate transgender people into main stream society. There is no clear cut process and we are discovering new dilemmas as we go.
People go by shorten versions of their actual name for a variety of reason. But what are some of the feelings you associate with being called by your formal name as opposed to your shorten name, and what is the harm done to you when someone calls you Nicholas as opposed to Nick?No, I don't like it when people call me "Nicholas". It sounds too formal. People change their name all the time because they don't like the feeling of being referred to by whatever name they had. Some folks go by their middle name because of feelings.
People go by all sorts of things other than the name on their birth certificate, which is their only real name. Not just shorter versions of long names. Your standard of "delusion" is anything based on feelings, since you demand everything must be explained "rationally" to you. So why do you cater to people's personal feelings when it comes to proper names, but not pronouns? You don't get to snip my questions out of your quotes because you don't want to answer them. Why are you okay with catering to my "delusion" that my name is "Nick"?People go by shorten versions of their actual name for a variety of reason. But what are some of the feelings you associate with being called by your formal name as opposed to your shorten name, and what is the harm done to you when someone calls you Nicholas as opposed to Nick?
True.People go by all sorts of things other than the name on their birth certificate, which is their only real name. Not just shorter versions of long names.
Untrue; I never said that. There are countless things based on feelings that I don’t consider delusional, and I don’t require everything to be explained rationally to me. I call Gender as currently define a delusion because I believe it is based on false information.Your standard of "delusion" is anything based on feelings, since you demand everything must be explained "rationally" to you.
I believe those pronouns are based on false information.So why do you cater to people's personal feelings when it comes to proper names, but not pronouns?
It would be a delusion if you somehow convinced yourself your name was Nick when it was actually Nicholas. However, if due to your delusions you told me your actual name was Nick, I would assume that was your actual birth name just like if you were actual a woman and you told me you were a man; I would just assume you were one of countless biological women I’ve run into that look like menYou don't get to snip my questions out of your quotes because you don't want to answer them. Why are you okay with catering to my "delusion" that my name is "Nick"?
And you've said that you don't believe them because no one has been able to rationally explain it to you. Everything that is based on emotions is irrational by definition. If you're using the word "delusion" then you're acknowledging that they actually feel the way they do, so their feelings aren't being falsely reported to you by them.Untrue; I never said that. There are countless things based on feelings that I don’t consider delusional, and I don’t require everything to be explained rationally to me. I call Gender as currently define a delusion because I believe it is based on false information.
But trans people don't think they have different biology than they actually do. They think that gender is, at least in part, an internal emotional thing, and they think that their biology doesn't match up with that internal emotional thing. If they actually thought their biology was that of the gender they identify with, they wouldn't seek surgery or hormone treatments, would they?It would be a delusion if you somehow convinced yourself your name was Nick when it was actually Nicholas. However, if due to your delusions you told me your actual name was Nick, I would assume that was your actual birth name just like if you were actual a woman and you told me you were a man; I would just assume you were one of countless biological women I’ve run into that look like men
That's OK until we come up against more testing situations where it is important to be sure a person is not just claiming that they are the opposite sex to who they are. This will happen in situations where there are specific requirements for one sex to be eligible such as rest rooms, gyms, medical situations, sports, etc. A male cannot just walk up and say they are a women and then get open access to places that women may occupy. This is the difficulty we are facing at the moment in how do we accommodate transgender people into main stream society. There is no clear cut process and we are discovering new dilemmas as we go.
That has already been addressed. I already said if a person appears to be a man but tells me they are a woman, rather than inspect their underwear, I would assume they are a biological woman and address them accordingly (and visa versa). But this isn't good enough, because if the person tells me they are a Them, a Zi, or Xi I refuse to play that game thus our debate continues.
The pronouns they wish are gender pronouns. I don't use gender pronouns.So you refuse to address a person with the pronouns they wish. Do you think that you are a better judge than them of what pronouns are valid for them and which aren't?
I appreciate that but this still doesn't stop women feeling uncomfortable with sharing a private space like a toilet with a male who identifies as a women and still has male genitals.There have been few if any situations where that has ever been an issue.
Besides, if a person is living their whole life as a woman, safe to say they aren't doing it just to get into the ladies room to perv.
Also males who identify as women can compete against women across a number of sports and are dominating. This is causing women to feel that this is unfair and in some cases such as physical contact sports unsafe. The law allows for a person who would still have all the traits of a male to compete as a female which does not seem fair. This is because people refuse to acknowledge that sex (biology) is the true indicator of who is male and female. Instead some want to use subjective feelings rather than scientific fact in how to determine who is male and female. If a person says they are a women then they can legally be a women. When we use peoples feelings as a measure it is bound to lead to problems like we are seeing.I'm going to be interested in seeing how that plays out in women's sports. For several reasons, it's going to be more obvious in high school and college than at the professional level.
But there is the odd case of Caster Semenya, an African runner who was born organically female, but naturally has a Y chromosome that has caused her to produce much more testosterone than the average woman. In my opinion, this is like a man who is genetically disposed to be 8 feet tall going out for basketball, but the International Olympic Committee has ruled that she must take testosterone-suppressing drugs to compete as a woman.
I disagree! A few years back a friend of mine won a large sum of money playing the lottery; his emotional outburst of excitement was totally rational. When I had my car broken into by a thief, my emotional rage and anger was rational; I would say most emotions people display are completely rationalAnd you've said that you don't believe them because no one has been able to rationally explain it to you. Everything that is based on emotions is irrational by definition.
I have no doubt their feelings are real, I just believe they are unjustified in and should not be catered to. As the point was made earlier; if I were anorexia but saw myself as fat, I should not be catered to and have everybody around me claiming I need to lose more weight in order to make me feel better. If I weighed 800 lbs and were in denial that I was obese, I should not be catered to and have everybody around me telling me I don't need to lose weight because it makes me feel better. A sweet lie should not take the place of the bitter truth, just because it makes someone feel better.If you're using the word "delusion" then you're acknowledging that they actually feel the way they do, so their feelings aren't being falsely reported to you by them.
Perhaps they need to be told their idea of gender is wrong.But trans people don't think they have different biology than they actually do. They think that gender is, at least in part, an internal emotional thing, and they think that their biology doesn't match up with that internal emotional thing. If they actually thought their biology was that of the gender they identify with, they wouldn't seek surgery or hormone treatments, would they?
There is no such a thing as feeling like a Nick. If you believe there is, and it is causing you problems, you need to be told your idea of feeling like a nick is wrong.Just like I don't actually think the name on my birth certificate says, "Nick", but I don't feel like a "Nicholas" so I don't identify with that name.
That is absurd! Eugene is not associated with nerdiness. the only Eugene is know was a bouncer at a night club and he was a very big and intimidating guyThink about other names that generally have stereotypical personalities assigned to them. "Eugene" is associated with nerdiness, typically. So if you met a fella who was a bodybuilding dummy, you might say, "You don't seem like a 'Eugene' to me".
Biological women (trans men) believe there are specific cultural roles for women and other roles for men and the female roles don't apply to them; they feel more comfortable in the roles they believe that apply to men thus they claim they identify as men. Just because you don't feel comfortable in the roles you believe women are supposed to fit into doesn't mean you are not a woman; and they need to be told that their roles they impose on women is wrong and not fitting into those roles doesn't mean you aren't a womanSo what's the "false information"? Trans women don't believe they have vaginas. Trans men don't believe they have penises. The feelings they have aren't false. Where's the falsehood?
Actually that is exactly what happened, except the male doesn't have to claim to be a woman, he just goes inside the ladies room knowing the staff are not allowed to question him.That's OK until we come up against more testing situations where it is important to be sure a person is not just claiming that they are the opposite sex to who they are. This will happen in situations where there are specific requirements for one sex to be eligible such as rest rooms, gyms, medical situations, sports, etc. A male cannot just walk up and say they are a women and then get open access to places that women may occupy.
Two things:
This happened near where I live. Initially he did leave (which he didn't have to) only to return later during the youth swim. The police were never called because his claim was accepted.Two things:
So it doesn't look like his claim was accepted.
- "Strips" might give the wrong impression. He started to take off his shirt.
- He was asked to leave and did.
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