A re-examination of nothing

[tulc]

He made my feminine side gay!
tulc(who is heterosexual and was feeling left out)

 

[ChaliceThunder]

He made me homosexual.

Not only did he make me homosexual, but he loves me just the way I am, and blessed me with the most wonderful partner ever.

Hey...wait a minute.

I have the most wonderful partner ever!

 

[ChaliceThunder]

He made my feminine side gay!
tulc(who is heterosexual and was feeling left out)

And you are forever my favorite HQ!

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Hey...wait a minute.

I have the most wonderful partner ever!

I'm sure for you, he is

 

[ChaliceThunder]

I'm sure for you, he is

As I am sure, for you, she is

 

[Brieuse]

He made ME gay.

Anyone else want to give some personal testimony?

Same here, without a doubt.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

He made ME gay.

Anyone else want to give some personal testimony?

He made Moriah to be alternatively oriented as well -- not gay but something else. Well at the very least He permitted it to be so and joined Us together when He could have kept Us apart. What God hath joined together shall man presume to put asunder?

 

[Floatingaxe]

 

[BreadAlone]

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Mirriam-Webster Online Dictionary defines masturbation as erotic stimulation especially of one's own genital organs commonly resulting in [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] and achieved by manual or other bodily contact exclusive of sexual intercourse, by instrumental manipulation, occasionally by sexual fantasies, or by various combinations of these agencies.

Personally I believe that masturbation in a heterosexual relationship can be normal, healthy and pleasurable. From a psychological point of view, masturbation is only harmful if it interferes with, detracts from, or becomes a substitute for intercourse.

Understood, no argument there. However, with regard to masturbation as a single (unmarried) person, if it does not become an addiction, if it does not become an obsession, if it does not involve lusting after a specific REAL person -- and if instead it provides a harmless outlet for release so that normal biological hormonal surges do not become either severe distractions from more productive pursuits in life nor overwhelming temptations to fornication -- then it does not, in that context, constitute sin in any sense of the word, and the mind-twisting guilt-trips people try to create over it end up being far more severely damaging to one's mental/emotional health and spiritual walk than the practice itself.

The writer of Leviticus had ample opportunity to bring up the subject in the chapter where all other sexual taboos get covered in meticulous and careful detail. The simple fact that he does not, while others get mentioned to the point of redundancy (how many ways can we spell "incest"?), seems to indicate that clearly they did not regard it as sinful or they would have been just as careful to list it as they bes to listing bestiality and seven flavours of incest separately.

Paul had ample opportunity to discuss masturbation in the context of staying pure before and/or outside of marriage, yet he does not either. Considering that 1 Corinthians 7 does not blush nor shy away from frank talk of burning lust and lack of self-control, one would think this the optimal time to remind Christians that masturbation leads to open portals to hell or whatever -- IF such truly bes the case, of course -- but clearly such bes NOT the case as the glaring omission testifies. Paul simply addresses sexual matters in the context of relationships with others, advocating the celibate lifestyle as superior but then encouraging marriage for those whose biological urges bes too severe for that.

REMEMBER the ENTIRE scriptures bes written at a time before modern medicine and human development knowledge bes around. These ppls did not have a view of human anatomy & physiology such as we do today. They did not realise that sexual arousal could occur as a PURELY biological function with NO specific thoughts, lusts or desires attached to it, but purely from a hormonal surge. So of COURSE they would have viewed all sexual arousal as tied to lust and potentially damaging spiritually. Today we have the option of making use of increased scientific knowledge and knowing that our bodies bes hardwired and constructed to do certain things, among which the hormonal surges given to promote biological reproduction -- a.k.a. getting "horny" -- bes one of them. And by knowing that we needs not bes regarding ourselves as slapping God in the face and "choosing sin" every time one of those moments arises.

It may indeed be "better to marry than to burn (i.e. with lust)" but one does not get married on a whim merely to sate lust either. And until one finds a suitable partner, masturbation can provide a safe, healthy outlet for those hormonal surges so that rather than walking about half dissociated in a fever of biochemically-induced sexual hunger, a person can get on about the normal routines of their lives. Or maybe you humans just don't get normal & real urges like that? *shrug*

However, masturbation can become sinful. If a marriage partner fantasizes about anyone besides the person he or she is married to during masturbation then I believe they have committed the sin of adultery as Jesus expanded the definition below in the book of Matthew.

Agreed, no argument there. But not talking about that either. For fantasizing to constitute lusting after another, it needs to focus on an actual, real person, and not just a generic mental image of a make-believe person embodying physical or spiritual traits one deems desirable.

Sexual desire, additionally, bes not the only manner by which one can "lust after" another and "commit adultery in the heart". Believe it or not, a few times when this one has imagined there might be hope for it spiritually in the conventional Christian sense of the word, it had been tempted with "committing adultery in the heart" by surfing Christian dating sites and fantasizing what it would be like to have a Christian spouse instead of its present spouse (back when it had been married). (It has been married twice, both times to non-believers.) No sexual matter involved whatsoever and yet just as much "sin" in terms of "committing adultery in the heart". Perhaps even MORESO, seeing as rather than merely fantasizing about replacing the sex with someone else, it fantasized about replacing the entire relationship with another.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

LOL, um ... NO.

NOT bestiality. Good grief. Something else, something very much else!

Thought THAT much at least bes obvious.... superior species NOT inferior.... yeah?

 

[BreadAlone]

The Bible constantly says to keep yourselves pure and to keep away from sexual immorality. In other words..save it for marriage!

Furthermore, God's given us all consciences which let us know when something is wrong.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Furthermore, God's given us all consciences which let us know when something is wrong.

Speak for yourself. Not everyone has a conscience in the sense you believe and even of those what do, not everyone's conscience functions properly.

The Bible does speak of instances of having a "bad" conscience and that does not simply mean one that you have violated. It means one what bes programmed destructively -- as much unnecessarily restrictive and legalistic religion, combined with shame/blame tactics of control, will warp any normal, healthy, sweet child to produce....

 

[BreadAlone]

Speak for yourself. Not everyone has a conscience in the sense you believe and even of those what do, not everyone's conscience functions properly.

The Bible does speak of instances of having a "bad" conscience and that does not simply mean one that you have violated. It means one what bes programmed destructively -- as much unnecessarily restrictive and legalistic religion, combined with shame/blame tactics of control, will warp any normal, healthy, sweet child to produce....

I agree that the conscience isn't fool proof, but take a relatively unbiased conscience in context with scripture and I think the results will be less than wanted for the sexually immoral's agenda.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I agree that the conscience isn't fool proof, but take a relatively unbiased conscience in context with scripture and I think the results will be less than wanted for the sexually immoral's agenda.

Again, depends on what you bes defining as "sexually immoral". WHAT constitutes "immoral"??? In an objective sense, WHAT bes the defining quality to MAKE something "immoral" -- bes it just "because I said so"? Does God operate on a stupid idiotic "because I said so" basis or does He have REAL and LEGITIMATE reasons for what He says beyond just "I'm the big cheese so do as I say or you will suffer and ha ha there bes nothing you can do about it"?

Not to mention you cannot postulate some theoretical "conscience" and say "use that" when every sentient creature bes saddled solely with their own (or lack thereof)!!!! You might as well say "think with MY brain instead of yours" -- even if one bes willing, it bes impossible!!!

 

[Floatingaxe]

LOL, um ... NO.

Daimonosexual. Orientation toward non-corporeal entities. NOT bestiality. Good grief.

Thought THAT much at least bes obvious.... superior species NOT inferior.

Do you not recognize one of those fainting goats?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

The Bible constantly says to keep yourselves pure and to keep away from sexual immorality. In other words..save it for marriage!

Furthermore, God's given us all consciences which let us know when something is wrong.

I'm inclined to agree... for both hetero and homosexuals.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Do you not recognize one of those fainting goats?

No, it does not. It thought you bes accusing it of bestiality with that picture.

 

[Floatingaxe]

No, it does not. It thought you bes accusing it of bestiality with that picture.

Yuck. I wouldn't do that. I was responding to the Parade of Perversions. I couldn't top those.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Ahh, OK. As long as we bes both clear on that ... :o
What bes significance of the fainting goat?