A re-examination of nothing

[Ohioprof]

So???

Like mentioning James Dobson is supposed to make me say well then it doesn't matter what the scriptures say or what I feel the Holy Spirit says?

Kind of sterotyping again aren't we? So what if Mr. Dobson is a conservative/ fundamenalist, God gave me a brain and I think He wanted me to use it. Contrary to what so many think no everyone who is considered conservative/fundamenalist is also closed minded or double minded.

If we arent' to burn with passion but we are to marry if we can't control that, then where would the masturbation come in at. If we mastrubated wouldn't that relieve the burning with passion? So shouldn't it say if you have no self control and masturbation doesn't help get married?

Again, this is all your interpretation of the Bible, not the Bible itself. Yes, God gave you a brain, and he also gave other people brains. There is nothing wrong with interpreting the Bible; we can't read it without interpreting it, since reading is an act of interpretation. And of course it's right to apply common sense and reason to our understanding of the Bible.

Different people have different ideas about what is common sense. I think it's common sense that the various authors of the Bible, who obviously knew nothing about gay people, would neglect to mention gay people. And it's common sense that one cannot assume that same-sex marriage is condemned when it is never mentioned. That is common sense to me.

The error you make is in assuming that your interpretation of the Bible is the right one and everyone else's interpretations are wrong. I believe your interpretation is wrong. That's why we end up having to agree to disagree, because different Christians will always interpret the Bible differently.

I think the most important question for us as Christians is how we treat one another, how we treat other people. Jesus said to love God and love our neighbor. He did not say to love our neighbor except for gay people, because we gay people are sinning. His love was/is universal.

You seem to me like someone who treats other people with kindness and thoughtfulness, including gay people. And ultimately, while I disagree with your beliefs about people like me, I respect your willingness to treat us and others as Jesus would: with kindness, care, and respect. That's about all we can ask, that we care about each other despite our differences of belief.

 

[Ohioprof]

Dear savednadhappy1,
If it isnt James Dobson held up against the word of God its a college chaplain

The issue is not our college chaplain versus the "word of God." The debate is over different interpretations of the Bible. It's our college chaplain's interpretation versus your interpretation of the Bible.

Your interpretation of the Bible is not the "word of God." It's just how you understand the word of God. Not everyone understands it the way you do. Please don't confuse your beliefs with the word of God.

 

[lincolngreen50]

Again, this is all your interpretation of the Bible, not the Bible itself. Yes, God gave you a brain, and he also gave other people brains. There is nothing wrong with interpreting the Bible; we can't read it without interpreting it, since reading is an act of interpretation. And of course it's right to apply common sense and reason to our understanding of the Bible.

Different people have different ideas about what is common sense. I think it's common sense that the various authors of the Bible, who obviously knew nothing about gay people, would neglect to mention gay people. And it's common sense that one cannot assume that same-sex marriage is condemned when it is never mentioned. That is common sense to me.

The error you make is in assuming that your interpretation of the Bible is the right one and everyone else's interpretations are wrong. I believe your interpretation is wrong. That's why we end up having to agree to disagree, because different Christians will always interpret the Bible differently.

I think the most important question for us as Christians is how we treat one another, how we treat other people. Jesus said to love God and love our neighbor. He did not say to love our neighbor except for gay people, because we gay people are sinning. His love was/is universal.

You seem to me like someone who treats other people with kindness and thoughtfulness, including gay people. And ultimately, while I disagree with your beliefs about people like me, I respect your willingness to treat us and others as Jesus would: with kindness, care, and respect. That's about all we can ask, that we care about each other despite our differences of belief.

God loves all of His Children,He loves all sinners,He hates sin of course.
He wants all of His Children to enter His Kingdom but alas not all will.
There will be those who have everlasting life in His Kingdom and there will be those who will have everlasting torment in Hell.
There will be some who think that they will enter the Kingdom of Heaven but will not.
Everyone will be judged by their works.
God sets the rules and God through His Son will make the decision.
No one else.
I personally would want all those on this board to enter His kingdom and I pray that they do.

 

[Ohioprof]

Me still going with the word of God.

As I just pointed out to Phinny, you are going with YOUR interpretation of the Bible, not the "word of God." You understand the Bible a particular way, which you just acknowledged by talking about using "common sense" to try to understand the Bible. That's interpretation. Everyone interprets the Bible when they read it, because reading involves interpretation. Oher people interpret the Bible differently from you. You can argue what you think different verses in the Bible mean, and others will argue that they think these verses mean something different.

 

[Ohioprof]

God loves all of His Children,He loves all sinners,He hates sin of course.
He wants all of His Children to enter His Kingdom but alas not all will.
There will be those who have everlasting life in His Kingdom and there will be those who will have everlasting torment in Hell.
There will be some who think that they will enter the Kingdom of Heaven but will not.
Everyone will be judged by their works.
God sets the rules and God through His Son will make the decision.
No one else.
I personally would want all those on this board to enter His kingdom and I pray that they do.

Those are your beliefs, and that's fine. Your beliefs are not "truth." They are just your beliefs. That is true of my beliefs also.

 

[lincolngreen50]

The issue is not our college chaplain versus the "word of God." The debate is over different interpretations of the Bible. It's our college chaplain's interpretation versus your interpretation of the Bible.

Your interpretation of the Bible is not the "word of God." It's just how you understand the word of God. Not everyone understands it the way you do. Please don't confuse your beliefs with the word of God.

I personally pray to God for Him to reveal His Word to me.
It is not a matter of me interpreting the Bible Scriptures.
It is a matter of God revealing His Word to me.

 

[lincolngreen50]

Those are your beliefs, and that's fine. Your beliefs are not "truth." They are just your beliefs. That is true of my beliefs also.

God reveals His Truth to me through His Word.

 

[Ohioprof]

If homosexuality condemns a person before Almighty God, then you can safely assume He will condemn you for living as a couple in a homosexual pseudo-marriage! He doesn't mention it in scripture because He already mentioned thebehaviour it is based on is an abomination!

We need to get real here, folks! The argument that God never mentions same-sex marriage is extremely childish and not worthy of debate.

Hence the title of this thread!

It's just your belief that homosexuality "condemns a person before almighty God." Many Christians do not believe this. I certainly do not.

Judging gay people and mistreating gay people seems like the sin to me, but I don't know if it condemns anyone.

My argument is not "childish." I am 53 years old, and I am an adult. I do not make "childish" arguments. I am telling you what I think, and how I interpret the Bible. The fact that you interpret it differently does not make other people's interpretations "childish." It just means they are different.

 

[Ohioprof]

What I glean from all of your arguments is that it does not appear that you are willing to accept any proof regardless of what is presented. But it may be interesting to you if you are indeed openminded about what many of us believe about our Holy Bibles to read what goes into translating and compiling one. I listed the NIV Study Bible preface that details that at http://christianforums.com/t6846042...exuals-or-others-to-be-christian.html&page=11

What you present is not "proof."

 

[Ohioprof]

We have discussed what the Bible says is sin and you just turn a blind eye to it. This is no longer a debate. A debate ceases when the truth is raised about an issue. The loser is supposed to accept graciously. You do not do that. Instead the pro-homosexuality side continues to dig their heels in like stubborn children.

Now, we are continuing ad nauseum! *barf bag handy*

Please stop attacking people who disagree with you by calling us names. I am not a "stubborn child." I don't buy your arguments, that's all. They hold no weight with me.
I am certainly not going to be bullied into believing what you believe. I recommend trying a different approach if you want folks to listen to you who don't agree with you.

 

[Ohioprof]

Dear Moriah_Conquering_wind,
Ok lets put it this way. As Chistians are taught self contol, ie 1 Cor 7 and that looking lustfully at another woman is commiting adultery in one's heart, that would suggest masturbation is not self control and the thoughts causing touching yourself are sinful.
Perhaps you could know explain why masturbation might not be sinful?

Masturbation harms no one and is healthy for people. It's better to touch than to run around having sex with various partners.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

God reveals His Truth to me through His Word.

God reveals his truth to ME through his word.

How do you explain the disparities?

 

[Ohioprof]

The proof is in scripture. I will not waste my time quoting it to people who have shown repeatedly in this forum that they don't believe it, nor are open to the possibility of what I quote possibly being correct. It's a waste of prescious energy.

I'll answer when I can, help when I can, but will not participate in these circular thinking debates that keep saying the same things continuously.

No it's not. That's just your interpretation of an ambiguous verse in scripture. What you call "proof" is just your belief about what the Bible means.

It's interesting, though, that I see Christians running around telling gay people that we are going to hell for our alleged "sin," which is just their belief about our marriages, while I don't hear people running around denouncing those who touch, which is probably over 90 percent of the population of the world.

Some Christians single out gay people while giving those who touch a pass, probably because they themselves touch, and it's easier and more convenient for them to point fingers at other people rather than at themselves. I personally reject the belief that masturbation is a sin, just as I reject the belief that same-sex love is a sin within the context of marriage. But I see Christians applying double standards all over the place, denouncing gay people for our alleged "sin" while letting those who touch off the hook for their alleged "sin."

I say masturbation is good and healthy, and people should enjoy it. And they should be free to imagine whatever they want.

 

[Ohioprof]

Dear Moraih_Conquering_Wind,
As I said before perhaps you could know explain why masturbation might not be sinful? you seem too focused on proof it is at the moment.

There is no reason to believe that masturbation is sinful. It's healthy, and most people do it. Those who claim it's sinful probably do it. They rely on their interpretation of an ambiguous verse in the Bible.

 

[Der Alte]

Fainting goat.

 

[Ohioprof]

It's not anything like scratching an itch. Tell it to the Judge...




What in the name of Jesus are you talking about????

Jesus refers to us as children. Are we going to be good, obedient children, or spoiled, irascible, uncontrollable, unlovely children?

The Judge will say, "Floatingaxe, get over yourself. Lighten up. I never said masturbation is a sin, and I gave you sexuality as a gift from me. I also gave sexuality and the capacity to love and to marry to gay people, so please stop judging them and calling them names and do what Jesus told you. Love your neighbor and stop presuming to judge them."

 

[lincolngreen50]

God reveals his truth to ME through his word.

How do you explain the disparities?

well I believe in the nicene creed do you?

 

[Ohioprof]

Touching self is not a sin, but if it is done as a sexual expression it is a sin. It involves the MIND. There is a point at which fantasy or unwholesome thoughts enter the picture. That is where it becomes lewd and sinful. We are to control our thoughts and cast vile imaginations (lust) out.

More interpretation on your part.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

well I believe in the nicene creed do you?

yes.

 

[Ohioprof]

All scripture that speaks to avoiding sinful thoughts, lust, etc pertain here. Stinkin' thinkin' is verboten!

More interpretation on your part.