A re-examination of nothing

[Floatingaxe]

As I just pointed out to Phinny, you are going with YOUR interpretation of the Bible, not the "word of God." You understand the Bible a particular way, which you just acknowledged by talking about using "common sense" to try to understand the Bible. That's interpretation. Everyone interprets the Bible when they read it, because reading involves interpretation. Oher people interpret the Bible differently from you. You can argue what you think different verses in the Bible mean, and others will argue that they think these verses mean something different.

I am really tiring of the "everyone interprets the bible differently" mantra.

Born again Christians agree on the basic interpretation of the Word of God. Why? BECAUSE THE HOLY SPIRIT LIVES IN US AND HE INTERPRETS IT FOR US! That is why you see unity among the BRETHREN.

It is only those on the outside fringe who interpret Scripture differently.

Christians in general may differ on minor areas, but we all agree on the scriptral teachings on sin and salvation and sanctification. The doctrine of Jesus Christ prevails through minor doctrinal differences borne out of those precise areas of interpretive variance.

So, you see, Christians worldwide, agree on sin, and that homosexuality is one because we know what God says about it and we adhere to His views as don't get sidetracked by people who call themselves Christians but are on the fringe of hereticism.

The Body of Christ is in unity. We are implored to maintain that unity--whicch is why you have opposition here. You (in general) are subverting the unity of the Body of Christ by undermining the message of God regarding sexual morality.

Come to Christ, and let Him do an overhaul. He makes us NEW CREATURES!

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

You can BEAT and BEAT and WHIP and CONDEMN and BERATE and CRITICIZE and PUNISH and SCARE and THREATEN and HARASS a homosexual all you want but in the end, it bes a homosexual and all the BEATING and WHIPPING and CRITICIZING and TWISTING OF HIS WORDS and CONDEMNATION and BERATING and INSULTING and ASCRIBING MALICIOUS MOTIVES TO HIM and THREATENING him with hellfire and trying to SCARE him and HARASSING him about his beliefs WILL NOT TURN ONE SINGLE HOMOSEXUAL INTO A HETEROSEXUAL. It cannot and it will not for the simple reason that IT HAS NO POWER TO DO SO!!!!!!!!!!!!

HE WILL STILL BE A HOMOSEXUAL AND NO AMOUNT OF SCREWING UP HIS WILLPOWER AND DETERMINATION -- OR YOURS FOR THAT MATTER -- WILL MAKE A SINGLE HAIR WHITE OR BLACK IN THAT DEPARTMENT.

At a certain point, continuing to try to "force through pain" another to be something they simply CANNOT BE and CANNOT MAKE THEMSELVES BE, ceases to be justifiable and outs itself for the pointless exercise in CRUELTY which it comprises.

You cannot beat a horse into being a cow, gazelle, or hawk. It will remain a horse -- albeit a torn, bruised, bleeding one in excruciating pain. Beating it and whipping it will not make it stop being a horse -- you will only, in the end, beat it to death.

 

[davedjy]

Born again Christians agree on the basic interpretation of the Word of God. Why? BECAUSE THE HOLY SPIRIT LIVES IN US AND HE INTERPRETS IT FOR US! That is why you see unity among the BRETHREN.

You don't hold any proof that there is a "basic interpretation", there are thousands of different Christian denominations with people believing different things. Apparently, the Holy Spirit interprets it differently to those people.

It is only those on the outside fringe who interpret Scripture differently.

...which explains why there are approximately 38,000 different Christian denominations.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Don't put God in a box, Moriah. He will not stay there. He is in the business of changing lives, creating new creatures out of sick, sinful people headed for hellfire. It appears by your rant, that you are merely making a stand that you refuse to come to Christ for your wholeness. That is your choice. But you are wrong when you say that Jesus Christ doesn't change things.

He makes all things new!

Take on Jesus Christ! Take on His mind! It'll blow you away! He takes our sin and sickness and brings us to wholeness in mind and body and spirit!

 

[Floatingaxe]

Now who's using large font?

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

So, you see, Christians worldwide, agree on sin, and that homosexuality is one because we know what God says about it and we adhere to His views as don't get sidetracked by people who call themselves Christians but are on the fringe of hereticism.

Christians worldwide do NOT agree on what God has to say in this matter. Simply choosing to tarbrush those who do not hold the view YOUR camp holds as "people who CALL themselves Christians" (implying they bes not) actually makes YOU the divider and subverter of unity, not them. You refuse to accept them as brothers and sisters; hence YOU divide the Body upon the point of wanting YOUR viewpoint and opinions to define how the mind of God will be perceived on this matter.

The Body of Christ is in unity. We are implored to maintain that unity--whicch is why you have opposition here. You (in general) are subverting the unity of the Body of Christ by undermining the message of God regarding sexual morality.

Only those who insist upon dividing the Body over different viewpoints can be rightly fingered as the subverters of unity. Despite all their differences and disagreements with you and your type (those what holds your views in like kind), the greater number of Christians who disagree with you bes still willing to call you brother or sister, something you have demonstrated a complete inability to do in like turn.

In the end, we will never see eye to eye on everything. Unity bes not forged by all thinking alike to one another, but by all determining to treat one another as he would like to be treated regardless of differences in opinion and viewpoint. Unity bes like courage in that respect. Courage bes not the absence of fear but determined action in the face of fear. Likewise true Unity consists not in the absence of differences but in the determined pressing together in Love despite all differences. A unity of heart and spirit can be obtained even where views differ, and a unity of minds moving toward a shared purpose can be maintained even where minds hold different views.

That bes why Paul spent so much time on Body Theology -- i.e. the ear bes not the eye, the finger bes not the foot, etc.

Come to Christ, and let Him do an overhaul. He makes us NEW CREATURES!

But He does not make eyes to be feet, nor ears to be fingers, nor noses to be tongues. The trouble bes that some seem to want a body composed entirely of them whats share their functions instead of diverse parts each of which has their place in a bigger and grander scheme of God's than man can typically conceive.

 

[davedjy]

You cannot beat a horse into being a cow, gazelle, or hawk. It will remain a horse -- albeit a torn, bruised, bleeding one in excruciating pain. Beating it and whipping it will not make it stop being a horse -- you will only, in the end, beat it to death.

Yes, which is precisely why ex-gay therapy programs are proven to be so dangerous, only it seems the person beats themselves to death, hence the suicide rate.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

It appears by your rant, that you are merely making a stand that you refuse to come to Christ for your wholeness. That is your choice. But you are wrong when you say that Jesus Christ doesn't change things.

He makes all things new!

Take on Jesus Christ! Take on His mind! It'll blow you away! He takes our sin and sickness and brings us to wholeness in mind and body and spirit!

You misunderstand its rant. It does not refuse JC. It refuses toxic lies of humans that breach these scriptures:

[bible]Jeremiah 13:23[/bible]
[bible]Matthew 5:34-37[/bible]
[bible]Matthew 6:27[/bible]
[bible]Luke 12:25[/bible]

It refuses them lies of them humans that by heaping pain upon another you can make them become something they bes not. That bes nothing but crass self-justification for allowing oneself to harm and torture another. It bes cruel and it bes wrong.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Yes, which is precisely why ex-gay therapy programs are proven to be so dangerous, only it seems the person beats themselves to death, hence the suicide rate.

and that bes exactly what "they" want -- suicide, so that it can be attributed to the supposed "misery" of being gay itself when the misery actually comes not from what one bes but from how one bes treated by others. but the suicides in the minds of these "horse beaters" permit them to exonerate themselves.

 

[Chaplain David]

can you think of any reason why an act that harms no one, and leads to a net increase in hapiness and contededness would be unpleasing to God? Help me out here.

Well I think that has been asked, answered, asked, answered more than a couple dozen times. But I will say that I do not believe that homosexuals should be harassed because of their sexual orientation. Naturally, I believe that none of us should be harassed for our various views.

 

[savedandhappy1]

But be always aware that one's reading of the Bible is just one's own interpretation, always flawed, never complete, never the "truth." It's just one's beliefs. We see "through as glass darkly." That means all of us.

You quote from the Bible, and then in the next breath say that we can't use a book that is outdated, etc. for today. How can it be both ways?

My statement said to prayerfully read, and I also mentioned the Holy Spirit which is where our understanding comes from. This takes away the me interpretating factor pretty much out of the picture, if I let the Holy Spirit led.

I don't think you give the Holy Spirit or any of the Trinity enough credit. They created us so I really think they know how to give us understanding and wisdom.(I mean that for all God's Children, not just me)

Some people confuse their own beliefs with God's word, and this is a dangerous error, because it leads to a refusal to listen to other viewpoints, a refusal to recognize that there are different ways of understanding truth. It can lead to too much ego, to a self-righteousness that comes from the illusion that one has grasped the "truth."

So are you claiming that anyone who says that homosexuality is a sin is someone who “sets themselves up as holier than thou.” Is this just a way to make Christians feel guilty for condemning homosexuality?

Let me ask you this question. If those that believe that homosexuality is a sin are right, and if that then means that the scriptures that say that homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of God, what then?

If the statement above is correct can you see at all why we try so hard to get that message out? Can you see at all how we aren't doing it to be "holier than thou", we aren't doing it to condemn, but are trying to keep you and the others from being judged/condemned and being found guilty when you and they face the Lord?

You say you are a Christian and so I ask what do you think Jesus wants you to do to keep people from going to hell? I guess first you will have to pretend that people will go to hell, and then ask yourself what you as a follower of Christ are supposed to do?

If there is a hell and if those that reject Jesus Christ will end up there, would not the love that is mentioned so often in these threads, mean that if we love we have to do all we can to keep them from going to hell?

 

[Floatingaxe]

Christians worldwide do NOT agree on what God has to say in this matter. Simply choosing to tarbrush those who do not hold the view YOUR camp holds as "people who CALL themselves Christians" (implying they bes not) actually makes YOU the divider and subverter of unity, not them.

Christians worldwide do agree on the sin of homosexuality. Homosexuals are a fringe minority and most of them deny Christ in the first place, and rightfully so--for their lives deny Him openly.

You refuse to accept them as brothers and sisters; hence YOU divide the Body upon the point of wanting YOUR viewpoint and opinions to define how the mind of God will be perceived on this matter.

Yes, I cannot call someone who says one thing and does another as a sister or brother. The word of God tells us about them.

2 Timothy 3:5
They will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly. Stay away from people like that!

Only those who insist upon dividing the Body over different viewpoints can be rightly fingered as the subverters of unity. Despite all their differences and disagreements with you and your type (those what holds your views in like kind), the greater number of Christians who disagree with you bes still willing to call you brother or sister, something you have demonstrated a complete inability to do in like turn.

1 John 3:9
Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God.

Those who walk in sin without remorse are not sisters and brothers in Christ.

In the end, we will never see eye to eye on everything. Unity bes not forged by all thinking alike to one another, but by all determining to treat one another as he would like to be treated regardless of differences in opinion and viewpoint. Unity bes like courage in that respect. Courage bes not the absence of fear but determined action in the face of fear. Likewise true Unity consists not in the absence of differences but in the determined pressing together in Love despite all differences. A unity of heart and spirit can be obtained even where views differ, and a unity of minds moving toward a shared purpose can be maintained even where minds hold different views.

Yes, so when people share the Word of God conerning the truth, His words need to be heeded and not trampled on with contempt, in order that the sin concerned be preserved!

That bes why Paul spent so much time on Body Theology -- i.e. the ear bes not the eye, the finger bes not the foot, etc.


But He does not make eyes to be feet, nor ears to be fingers, nor noses to be tongues. The trouble bes that some seem to want a body composed entirely of them whats share their functions instead of diverse parts each of which has their place in a bigger and grander scheme of God's than man can typically conceive.

What we are seeing here are deformed parts. When a person literally gives over their control to Jesus the Christ, He literally comes in, sweeps the place clean and makes one a new creature! New! New mind! Amen!

Glory to God!

Ephesians 5:11
Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them.

 

[David Brider]

Christians worldwide do agree on the sin of homosexuality.

Except that they clearly don't. Take a look at the differing points of view held by the contributors to the threads in this part of the forums. There are certainly some who agree with your position, but there are many who hold other positions as well.

Homosexuals are a fringe minority and most of them deny Christ in the first place, and rightfully so--for their lives deny Him openly.

In what way?

David.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Yes, I cannot call someone who says one thing and does another as a sister or brother. The word of God tells us about them.

2 Timothy 3:5
They will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly. Stay away from people like that!

With all due respect, your behavior and views here can be categorised this same way -- with the "power that makes them godly" defined in Matthew 5:
[bible]Matthew 5:43-48[/bible]
So again we gets back to one groups word against anothers, as to the primary and secondary texts in Scripture and by what measure we divide the word of truth. Anyone applying 2 Tim 3:5 to issues of exterior behavior bes missing the boat IMO. It should be applied to the criteria listed in Matthew 5:43-48 and this one could find just as many to agree with it on that as you could those who would agree it should apply to defining "godly" in external terms as consisting in how ppls dress and what pasttimes they pursue.

A certain class of person in this world always focuses on outward behavior to the exclusion of all else and 2 Tim 3:5 bes written as far as Moriah can see to refer to precisely that type.

1 John 3:9
Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God.

FA whether you like it or not, Scripture bes given to unite men, not to serve the vanities of those what want separating themselves whilst arrogantly assuming themselves superior. As for the text you cite above, LET THE ONE WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE.
[bible]1 John 1:8-10[/bible]
If we say we do not sin we bes liars. Some ppls define "practice of sinning" as just that -- continuing to commit sin whether deliberately or not. We all, in that respect, "practice sin" regardless of our profession. 1 John 1:8-10 makes it clear anyone claiming otherwise bes a liar.

Those who walk in sin without remorse are not sisters and brothers in Christ.

The inability to pretend to be something one bes not does not constitute a lack of suffering over what one bes.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Don't put God in a box, Moriah. He will not stay there. He is in the business of changing lives, creating new creatures out of sick, sinful people headed for hellfire. It appears by your rant, that you are merely making a stand that you refuse to come to Christ for your wholeness. That is your choice. But you are wrong when you say that Jesus Christ doesn't change things.

He makes all things new!

Take on Jesus Christ! Take on His mind! It'll blow you away! He takes our sin and sickness and brings us to wholeness in mind and body and spirit!

A good example of that is plainly told us in one of the "clobber passages", as some call them.

1 Cor 6:9-11
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

This scripture is possible why some don't want these scriptures to mean homosexuality, because if the word does translate to that, then we see in verse 11 how those that WERE are CHANGED. They are washed clean, sanctified and justified in the name of Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

I love the way it says OUR GOD, again making clear that there are people who worship a god, their god, but it may not be the ONE and ONLY GOD.

 

[OllieFranz]

You read the scriptures right?

You see where it talks about staying single, BUT IF YOU CAN'T EXERCISE SELF-CONTROL, then you should marry.

Jesus spoke of man leaving parents and taking a wife, just like God created them male and female, and told them to go forth and multiple. Jesus spoke of eunuchs, and the different kinds of eunuchs.

Common sense would say that if He felt it was important enough to speak of marriage between a man and a female, and the 3 kinds of eunuchs, that if another type of marriage or single person was excepted by God.................. it would have come up.

But it did come up and you just mentioned it. When Jesus introduced a new kind of "eunuch" -- the celibate for the Gospel's sake -- He also mentioned two others.

The Greek language only knows one kind of eunuch, a man who has been "unmanned." But the Semitic language and culture used the Hebrew word saris and its cognates in Aramaic, Arabic, etc. (translated into Greek as eunouchus) to designate two different types of men.

One was a eunuch (physically unmanned), and the other was a person who was capable of fathering children, but who (according to the stereotypes of the day) preferred to spend his time seducing comely young men. Just like today, the rabbis whose commentaries are preserved in the Talmud argued over whether this kind of saris could be cured.

The Bible indirectly aknowledges the existence of this second type of saris in two other passages. In Deut 23:1 a eunuch is forbidden to worship in the Tabernacle (and by extension, in the Temple). In this verse, Moses does not simply forbid a saris from entering, but specifies that it is a person with "crushed stones" or with his "privy member" cut off. There is no other verse in the entire Bible which is as graphic in its description of the male anatomy.

And in the story of Phillip and the Ethiopian treasurer, (Acts 8), the "eunuch" was returning from a trip to Jerusalem to worship in the Temple, so he could not have had "crushed stones" or a missing "privy member." He must have been the other kind of saris.

 

[savedandhappy1]

The difference being, as I have said before... is that if your natural impulse harms others, then its probably selfish, if your natural impulse harms no one but can bring you closer to God, then it probably comes from him.

B. Among homosexuals, highly risky sexual practices such as anal sex are very common.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The majority of homosexual men (60%) engage in anal sex, frequently without condom and even, if they know that they are HIV positive. (Mercer CH et al. Increasing prevalence of male homosexual partnerships and practices in Britain 1990-2000. AIDS. 2004; 18: 1453-8) As a result, a large number of diseases are associated with anal intercourse, many of which are rare or even unknown in the heterosexual population such as: anal cancer, Chlamydia trachomatis, Cryptosporidium, Giardia lamblia, Herpes simplex virus, HIV, Human papilloma virus, Isospora belli, Microsporidia, Gonorrhoea, Syphilis, Hepatitis B and C and others. (www.netdoctor.co.uk; www.gayhealthchannel.com [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]There is a significant increase in the risk of contracting HIV when engaging in anal sex. Young homosexual men aged 15-22, who ever had anal sex had a fivefold increased risk of contracting HIV than those who never engaged in anal sex. (Valleroy L, et al. HIV prevalence and associated risks in young men who have sex with men. JAMA. 2000; 284: 198-204.) [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The term 'barebacking' refers to intentional unsafe anal sex. In a study of HIV-positive gay men, the majority of participants (84%) reported engaging in barebacking in the past three months, and 43% of the men reported recent bareback sex with a partner who most likely is not infected with HIV, therefore putting another man at risk of contracting HIV. (Halkitis PN. Intentional unsafe sex (barebacking) among HIV-positive gay men who seek sexual partners on the Internet. AIDS Care. 2003; 15: 367-78.) [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]While many homosexuals are aware of HIV risk, a large number are unaware of the increased risk of contracting non-HIV STDs, many of which have serious complications or may not be curable. (K-Y lubricant and the National Lesbian and Gay Health Association survey) [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]C. Homosexuals have very high rates of sexually transmitted infections such as HIV which pose a major burden to the health service. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Over 70% of all AIDS diagnoses in Canada in adults over the age of 15 up to June 2004 were in homosexual men (13,019 out of 19,238). 60% of all positive HIV tests are found in homosexual men. This contrasts with just over 15% of all positive HIV tests which are due to heterosexual contact. (Public Health Agency of Canada. HIV and AIDS in Canada. November 2004).[/SIZE][/FONT]
• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The recently observed dramatic increases in syphilis in many large cities such as Los Angeles, San Francisco, but also in London and Manchester, UK are in the majority observed in homosexual men. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Trends in primary and secondary syphilis and HIV infections in men who have sex with men. MMWR 2004; 53: 575-8. and Nicoll A. Are trends in HIV, gonorrhoea, and syphilis worsening in western Europe? BMJ 2002; 324:1324-7.) [/SIZE][/FONT]

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0095.html

I am looking to get conformation by other sources of these findings, because I know the fact that this is from a Catholic site will cause problems.

I choose mostly information about other countries and or mixed date of the U.S. and other countries on purpose.

Now I realize that not all homosexuals have anal sex, but for those that do there are many health risk. So how can anyone say that homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone so it is ok with God?

Just like anyone who commits sexual sins or those who have partners who have committed sexual sins, there are health risk.

People get hurt, and so whether hetrosexual or homosexual, sexual sins are not ok with God.
[/FONT][/SIZE]

 

[savedandhappy1]

Yes, which is precisely why ex-gay therapy programs are proven to be so dangerous, only it seems the person beats themselves to death, hence the suicide rate.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]It is claimed, that the high rates of mental illness among homosexuals are the result of 'homophobia'. However, even in the Netherlands, which has been far more tolerant to same-sex relationships and which has recently legalised same-sex marriages, high levels of psychiatric illness, including major depression, bipolar disorder ('manic depression'), agoraphobia, obsessive compulsive disorder and drug addiction are found. (Sandfort TG, et al. Same-sex sexual behavior and psychiatric disorders: findings from the Netherlands Mental Health Survey and Incidence Study (NEMESIS). Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2001; 58 :85-91.)

[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Furthermore, if 'homophobia' and prejudices were the cause of the high rates of psychiatric disorders and suicide attempts among homosexuals, one would similarly expect to find higher rates of suicide attempts and suicide among ethnic minorities exposed to racism. However, this is not usually the case.
[/SIZE][/FONT]http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0095.html

I am looking to get conformation by other sources of these findings, because I know the fact that this is from a Catholic site will cause problems.

 

[Ohioprof]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]It is claimed, that the high rates of mental illness among homosexuals are the result of 'homophobia'. However, even in the Netherlands, which has been far more tolerant to same-sex relationships and which has recently legalised same-sex marriages, high levels of psychiatric illness, including major depression, bipolar disorder ('manic depression'), agoraphobia, obsessive compulsive disorder and drug addiction are found. (Sandfort TG, et al. Same-sex sexual behavior and psychiatric disorders: findings from the Netherlands Mental Health Survey and Incidence Study (NEMESIS). Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2001; 58 :85-91.)

[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Furthermore, if 'homophobia' and prejudices were the cause of the high rates of psychiatric disorders and suicide attempts among homosexuals, one would similarly expect to find higher rates of suicide attempts and suicide among ethnic minorities exposed to racism. However, this is not usually the case.
[/SIZE][/FONT]http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0095.html

I am looking to get conformation by other sources of these findings, because I know the fact that this is from a Catholic site will cause problems.

Why do you persist in spreading propaganda against gay people? That's not a loving thing to do. Jesus would not do that.

Your post is offensive, because it's just aimed at attacking us, nothing more.

 

[Ohioprof]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]It is claimed, that the high rates of mental illness among homosexuals are the result of 'homophobia'. However, even in the Netherlands, which has been far more tolerant to same-sex relationships and which has recently legalised same-sex marriages, high levels of psychiatric illness, including major depression, bipolar disorder ('manic depression'), agoraphobia, obsessive compulsive disorder and drug addiction are found. (Sandfort TG, et al. Same-sex sexual behavior and psychiatric disorders: findings from the Netherlands Mental Health Survey and Incidence Study (NEMESIS). Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2001; 58 :85-91.)

[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Furthermore, if 'homophobia' and prejudices were the cause of the high rates of psychiatric disorders and suicide attempts among homosexuals, one would similarly expect to find higher rates of suicide attempts and suicide among ethnic minorities exposed to racism. However, this is not usually the case.
[/SIZE][/FONT]http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0095.html

I am looking to get conformation by other sources of these findings, because I know the fact that this is from a Catholic site will cause problems.

Then if you question the findings, why do you bring them up?

You really don't need to go out of your way to attack other people simply because you don't like us.

What would you say if I started pointing out the studies that show higher rates of divorce among conservative Christians than among other Americans? If I were to bring this up out of the blue, wouldn't you think I was simply attacking conservative Christians for no reason?

That's what it's like to have you slander gay people in this way. It's offensive, and it's not loving. It's not what Jesus would do.

Why can't you just allow gay people to live our lives without our having to defend ourselves all the time? It gets very tiring to be attacked constantly by people who claim to love us.