A question to the Christian Trump supporters.

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

What they want is to make Christian sin illegal in a secular republic. Trump's flaws as a man and as a leader mean nothing to them.

Some do, not all conservatives do and some conservatives would just prefer religion have a more preeminent place in the republic. Wouldn't this be like saying all Democrats want to remove public expression of religion and fire doctors who refuse to fire abortions? Some do, and I hope the majority don't.

You're also right that Trump's flaws mean little to those voting for him. Though the conservative commentators I've heard as of late have been critical of Trump for being even more Trumpy than usual. Calling Joe Scarborough a murderer was a mistake in my opinion, despite me thinking Trump has a right to be angry with him and the Media establishment in general.

Democrats and the left are no different from Republicans in this regard. Joe Biden can say you're not black if you don't vote for him but it's fine. Why? Because Joe is going to push for what the left wants.

 

[Speedwell]

It is an interesting question but my focus is more on Trump's policy preferences rather than Trump himself. Supports Israel, supports conservative judges, supports the 2nd amendment

All of which are Christian Right issues.

identifies and tries to reduce trade inequities,

Whether he has done a good job with that remains to be seen.

handles foreign policy better by not embracing globalism first.

Another Christian Right issue.

The jury is still out on his COVID policies, but his initial reaction was slow, touting Hydroxychloroquine might be in error and taking a stance that we should not shut down no matter what seems arrogant.

Agreed.

Trump's biggest bust though has been his disregard for sound fiscal policy. Democrats though would be worse in this area, so we have to live with that.

At this point that would be a guess.

 

[Allandavid]

What qualities of Christ do we see in any of these politicians? That's the question that needs to be asked and answered first.

Tu quoque...? That’s the best you can do...?

 

[Speedwell]

Some do, not all conservatives do and some conservatives would just prefer religion have a more preeminent place in the republic. Wouldn't this be like saying all Democrats want to remove public expression of religion and fire doctors who refuse to fire abortions? Some do, and I hope the majority don't.

Then you've got a serious public relations problem. As I understand it, Trump's Christian base doesn't want to stop short of charging a woman who pops a "morning after" pill with first degree murder and insists on being exempt from public accommodation and discrimination laws regarding LGBTs.
As far as giving religion a more prominent place in the Republic, the Christian Right started out by hijacking the National Day of Prayer, and things have gone downhill from there to the point where the Rev. Robert Jeffress, one of Trump's religious advisors, can denounce the rest of us as only "pretending to be Christians."

 

[Allandavid]

He's shown a loyalty to his supporters rare among political leaders - his judiciary appointments are probably the clearest example of that. Anyone who wonders about his supporters loyalty to him, there's your reason...

Ummm...as President, shouldn't his loyalty be to ALL Americans and not just to a dwindling minority...?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Then you've got a serious public relations problem. As I understand it, Trump's Christian base doesn't want to stop short of charging a woman who pops a "morning after" pill with first degree murder and insists on being exempt from public accommodation and discrimination laws regarding LGBTs.
As far as giving religion a more prominent place in the Republic, the Christian Right started out by hijacking the National Day of Prayer, and things have gone downhill from there to the point where the Rev. Robert Jeffress, one of Trump's religious advisors, can denounce the rest of us as only "pretending to be Christians."

Doesn't your dismissal of conservative concerns regarding abortion demonstrate why Trump is palatable to the right in general? You can call conservatives like myself whatever you want, but if you don't want to advocate for our interests why shouldn't they support Trump who will work for them? I also think you don't understand why reluctant Trump voters will vote for him.

Or what, should we just give way to secular atheism and let every non Christian moral position take dominance? Sounds like a slow suicide to me.

Back the original point. Do you at least agree with me that no one cares about the character of Politicians at the moment? Or do you contend the left actually cares about character?

 

[Speedwell]

Doesn't your dismissal of conservative concerns regarding abortion demonstrate why Trump is palatable to the right in general? You can call conservatives like myself whatever you want, but if you don't want to advocate for our interests why shouldn't they support Trump who will work for them? I also think you don't understand why reluctant Trump voters will vote for him.

I'm sure that conservative concerns about abortion are sincere and I don't dismiss them. But they are religious concerns and I don't see the necessity of embodying them in the law of a secular Republic, especially as there is not majority support for them.

Or what, should we just give way to secular atheism and let every non Christian moral position take dominance? Sounds like a slow suicide to me.

I'm not sure what you mean by "dominance." But it seems to me that what you want is the "dominance" of the Christian moral position.

Back the original point. Do you at least agree with me that no one cares about the character of Politicians at the moment? Or do you contend the left actually cares about character?

I do, to a great extent. The Left has no existential issues to obviate it.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I'm sure that conservative concerns about abortion are sincere and I don't dismiss them. But they are religious concerns and I don't see the necessity of embodying them in the law of a secular Republic, especially as there is not majority support for them.

You might prefer a Republic where religion has no say in matters of law or the public, but many do not and that is not the historical position of the USA in general.

Then we disagree. You support Atheistic and Godless government. I support government informed by religious sentiment (i do not believe in Theocracy). This however is not the topic.

I'm not sure what you mean by "dominance." But it seems to me that what you want is the "dominance" of the Christian moral position.

Well, yeah. Because it's better than atheistic secularism.

I do, to a great extent. The Left has no existential issues to obviate it.

Glad we agree on something then. I would furhter say that the real issue in who we support politically is whether or not they are going to be beneficial for any given communities interest.

 

[Brightmoon]

Doesn't your dismissal of conservative concerns regarding abortion demonstrate why Trump is palatable to the right in general? You can call conservatives like myself whatever you want, but if you don't want to advocate for our interests why shouldn't they support Trump who will work for them? I also think you don't understand why reluctant Trump voters will vote for him.

Or what, should we just give way to secular atheism and let every non Christian moral position take dominance? Sounds like a slow suicide to me.

Back the original point. Do you at least agree with me that no one cares about the character of Politicians at the moment? Or do you contend the left actually cares about character?

since most women want to keep abortion legal Id say it was a big problem . These are our bodies and the ones wanting us most under control seem to be men . No thanks! I lived through the part of the oppressive sexist 50s and liked the freedom of the 60s .

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

since most women want to keep abortion legal Id say it was a big problem . These are our bodies and the ones wanting us most under control seem to be men . No thanks! I lived through the part of the oppressive sexist 50s and liked the freedom of the 60s .

It's a shame that women feel that way. Though I think it strange you think it's only men that want to oppose abortion and not and equal proportion of conservative Christians, men and women, who oppose killing offspring in the womb.

I simply prefer Christian reasoning on this issue, rather than whatever reasoning you are using. Also, not the topic of the thread.

 

[Brightmoon]

Doesn't your dismissal of conservative concerns regarding abortion demonstrate why Trump is palatable to the right in general? You can call conservatives like myself whatever you want, but if you don't want to advocate for our interests why shouldn't they support Trump who will work for them? I also think you don't understand why reluctant Trump voters will vote for him.

Or what, should we just give way to secular atheism and let every non Christian moral position take dominance? Sounds like a slow suicide to me.

Back the original point. Do you at least agree with me that no one cares about the character of Politicians at the moment? Or do you contend the left actually cares about character?

the biggest problem with imposing Christian Ideas on the USA is the FACT that this is NOT A Christian country . We’re FORBIDDEN by the constitution from having an official religion .

 

[Brightmoon]

It's a shame that women feel that way. Though I think it strange you think it's only men that want to oppose abortion and not and equal proportion of conservative Christians, men and women, who oppose killing offspring in the womb.

I simply prefer Christian reasoning on this issue, rather than whatever reasoning you are using. Also, not the topic of the thread.

not the topic is correct
it’s just that men don’t get pregnant and have no idea what we go through and I’m not just talking about labor. I’m not mentioning this again

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

the biggest problem with imposing Christian Ideas on the USA is the FACT that this is NOT A Christian country . We’re FORBIDDEN by the constitution from having an official religion .

The advocating of certain laws influenced by religion is not the establishment of religion. But is this the topic of the thread? If you want to advocate state atheism or suggest Christians have no right to voice their moral concerns then open a thread for it.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

not the topic is correct
it’s just that men don’t get pregnant and have no idea what we go through and I’m not just talking about labor. I’m not mentioning this again

Right and you didn't get killed in your Mother's womb.

 

[Brightmoon]

The advocating of certain laws influenced by religion is not the establishment of religion. But is this the topic of the thread? If you want to advocate state atheism or suggest Christians have no right to voice their moral concerns then open a thread for it.

but this country isnt Christian, it’s just that most of the population is Christian . So you do get these little bleed overs . For example gay marriage was opposed by religious people including some Christians and they held up the civil right for a long time . But they lost that battle BECAUSE being against gays is a religious prejudice not a fact of nature.

 

[Brightmoon]

Right and you didn't get killed in your Mother's womb.

even back in the benighted 50s women had choices . Even though it was illegal then .


Get off the subject

 

[Evan Jellicoe]

Advocating for abortion is not permitted in this forum even though sometimes it gets talked about and doesn't get shut down right away. But there is another place where it is permitted. You might want to take a look there, maybe say a few words:
Debates on Abortion

 

[Monksailor]

President Trump is an honorable man. NO ONE is perfect, NO ONE can expected to be so. President Trump holds other countries responsible for their grievous and corruptible actions against us. President Trump is courageous. He will not back down to bullies and tyrants and exploiters and such. President Trump understands that we have to love and take care of ourselves to know how to love and care for other countries; love your neighbor as you love yourself. President Trump loves and protects his family. President Trump is benevolent. President Trump does not fill the air with a lot of nonsensical political innuendos and waste time and lie with sooth saying but is frank, blunt, and to the point, just like Jesus. I love the man and will vote for him again in a heartbeat.

 

[Speedwell]

You might prefer a Republic where religion has no say in matters of law or the public, but many do not and that is not the historical position of the USA in general.

Of course "religion" has no say, but the religious do--each one of them with a vote.

Then we disagree. You support Atheistic and Godless government. I support government informed by religious sentiment (i do not believe in Theocracy). This however is not the topic.

But it is intimately related to the topic. In fact, the government is informed by the religious sentiment of the people, one vote at a time. How else would you have the government be "Godly?"

Well, yeah. Because it's better than atheistic secularism.

As an Anglican, a "Bible-hating, Christ-denying commie" who is "only pretending to be a Christian" and who "hates America" and wants to "destroy Judeo-Christian values" you will pardon me, I hope, for not agreeing with you.

Glad we agree on something then. I would further say that the real issue in who we support politically is whether or not they are going to be beneficial for any given communities interest.

Of course. But there are many communities in this country. Yours is not the only one.

 

[Speedwell]

The advocating of certain laws influenced by religion is not the establishment of religion. But is this the topic of the thread? If you want to advocate state atheism or suggest Christians have no right to voice their moral concerns then open a thread for it.

No one is advocating state atheism. The Constitution provides for state religious neutrality. You are free to advocate for laws influenced by religion and to voice your moral concerns. But so do the rest of us; your particular religion enjoys no special privilege in that regard.