A Question About Signs and Wonders

[NBB]

You believe you are still under the Law of Moses today?

Gentiles had gifts, AFTER Christ, under the grace and Holy spirit.

 

[Guojing]

Gentiles had gifts, AFTER Christ, under the grace and Holy spirit.

Out of curiosity, do you happen to know of ANYONE living today, whether in your church or otherwise, having this so called "gift of healing"?

 

[NBB]

Out of curiosity, do you happen to know of ANYONE living today, whether in your church or otherwise, having this so called "gift of healing"?

I'm not a 'cessationist'

 

[Guojing]

I'm not a 'cessationist'

Is that an answer to my question?

It is perfectly fine to reply with "I don't know anyone alive today with that gift"

 

[NBB]

Is that an answer to my question?

It is perfectly fine to reply with "I don't know anyone alive today with that gift"

I don't, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exists, however i believe some people have the gift of prophecy or discerment.
Which, if there is one there could be the other too.

 

[Guojing]

I don't, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exists, however i believe some people have the gift of prophecy or discerment.
Which, if there is one there could be the other too.

Alright then.

For me, I believe that since God no longer relates to us TODAY under the Law (Romans 6:14, 1 Timothy 1:9).

When we believers are sick nowadays, we can be rest assured that it is not because we have disobeyed God in anyway.

Conversely, if we find ourselves getting better, it is NOT because we are currently doing something that pleases God.

That is what I believe Paul is teaching us now when he shared with us Romans 8:18-25 and 2 Corinthians 4:16-18, and when he gave Timothy common sense advice regarding his frequent stomach ailments.

 

[Rose_bud]

Out of curiosity, do you happen to know of ANYONE living today, whether in your church or otherwise, having this so called "gift of healing"?

I actually do know of someone who couldn't see, the person wasn't a believer, but after prayer from a travelling preacher, she received her sight, she informed and invited her husband, they joined the local church were baptized, he later died confessing Christ as His Lord.

 

[Guojing]

I actually do know of someone who couldn't see, the person wasn't a believer, but after prayer from a travelling preacher, she received her sight, she informed and invited her husband, they joined the local church were baptized, he later died confessing Christ as His Lord.

I think its important to distinguish between

-Healing as a result of God answering a prayer request (Philippians 4:6-7)
-Healing as a result of a man with the gift of healing.

God certainly can heal today and he does, but the healing promises and signs were restricted to the nation of Israel, as I have explained in that original post.

I am sure that preacher you are talking about will not claim he has any gift of healing, but if I am wrong, do let me know the name.

 

[Rose_bud]

I think its important to distinguish between

-Healing as a result of God answering a prayer request
-Healing as a result of a man with the gift of healing.

God certainly can heal today and he does, but the healing promises and signs were restricted to the nation of Israel, as I have explained in that original post.

I am sure that preacher you are talking about will not claim he has any gift of healing, but if I am wrong, do let me know the name.

Uhmmm, this is a very contradictory statement, and once again I might be misunderstanding your view.... God can heal, he still does BUT "healing promises and signs were restricted to the nation of Israel",

either God heals or He does not, either the promise of the Spirit was given to all or only to ethnic Israel.

This preacher was not out to get his name in lights, but operated from a working of the Spirit, not crediting it to himself, whether it came as a result of the prayer or she could see after the preaching, I cannot say. What I can say is that her sight was restored and God glorified.

Why is it so hard to believe that God still heals, so His name is glorified?

 

[Guojing]

Uhmmm, this is a very contradictory statement, and once again I might be misunderstanding your view.... God can heal, he still does BUT "healing promises and signs were restricted to the nation of Israel",

either God heals or He does not, either the promise of the Spirit was given to all or only to ethnic Israel.

Again, read my original post properly and you will understand better what I am saying.

If any of the short paragraphs are unclear, you can seek clarification.

Actually, if you read Philippians 4:6-7, you will also understand.

Notice Paul did not promise us any healing there, but we can still pray to God our request for healing, if a sickness is one of those issues that are causing us anxiety?

 

[Rose_bud]

Again, read my original post properly and you will understand better what I am saying.

If any of the short paragraphs are unclear, you can seek clarification.

My friend, your post are not very clear in what you are saying, hence my continuous checking in too see that I am no misunderstanding you.

 

[Guojing]

Why is it so hard to believe that God still heals, so His name is glorified?

My friend, your post are not very clear in what you are saying, hence my continuous checking in too see that I am no misunderstanding you.

There is a reason why I provided the necessary scripture references and many short paragraphs in that original post.

Its for your ease in asking any clarification questions.

No point saying its not clear, but you do not ask specific questions

 

[Rose_bud]

There is a reason why I provided the necessary scripture references and many short paragraphs in that original post.

Its for your ease in asking any clarification questions.

No point saying its not clear, but you do not ask specific questions

But that is what's causing the misunderstanding, the post of a scripture, then a sentence and then expect me to engage a meaningful discussion.

I don't know what you are saying or asking or arguing.

upfront disclaimer again
If this discussion is going to digress into a back and forth with no meaningful engagement. I politely excuse myself.

 

[Guojing]

I don't know what you are saying or asking or arguing.

I really find it strange you are still saying this, when you liked my reply to you, where I restated my conclusion of that post.

But now, God no longer relates to us under the Law (Romans 6:14, 1 Timothy 1:9).

So when we believers are sick nowadays, we can be rest assured that it is not because we have disobeyed God in anyway.

Conversely, if we find ourselves getting better, it is NOT because we are currently doing something that pleases God.

That is what I believe Paul is teaching us now when he shared with us Romans 8:18-25 and 2 Corinthians 4:16-18, and when he gave Timothy common sense advice regarding his frequent stomach ailments.

That is my conclusion in that post. Do you understand what I am saying here or not?

 

[Rose_bud]

upfront disclaimer again
If this discussion is going to digress into a back and forth with no meaningful engagement. I politely excuse myself.

 

[Rose_bud]

upfront disclaimer again
If this discussion is going to digress into a back and forth with no meaningful engagement. I politely excuse myself.

Please respect the above my friend.

 

[Guojing]

upfront disclaimer again
If this discussion is going to digress into a back and forth with no meaningful engagement. I politely excuse myself.

I was asking a yes or no question to you there, but if you want to stop engaging, you can stop anytime. Cheers.

 

[Hawkins]

The primary purpose of signs and wonders is to confirm God's message on the one hand and to authenticate the messenger on the other.

Acts 14:3
So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to perform signs and wonders.

Normally, the more important the message is and the more faith the messenger has the more significant signs and wonders would be granted through the hand of the messenger.

For example, when you are instructed to write a passage God the Holy Spirit will correct your (theological) mistakes then may confirm with signs and wonders to say that "job is done by your level of faith and ability". It doesn't seem that God would say "the passage is good or perfect". It's rather a sign confirming that "your work is accepted".

What you may not know is, there is a "pattern" on how messages are conveyed. It may come with a kind of training course for a person to receive messages from the simplest to the most complicated in an unambiguous manner, with confirmation of signs and wonders as its almost the last step.

Resurrection then means the apostles are a carrier of the most important message at the time, they are authenticated, they are apostles of faith and their deeds shall be recorded down as part of the NT Bible.

Somehow I have the privilege to get to know the above. It means signs and wonders still exist till this day, though nothing is needed to be recorded down to the Bible which is considered completed (possibly that's why you won't be able to see a resurrection or any signs and wonders to the equivalent extent through the hand of a messenger in today's world).

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

upfront disclaimer again
If this discussion is going to digress into a back and forth with no meaningful engagement. I politely excuse myself.

Quite right. I set up the thread to have meaningful discussion even if we all disagree with each other. Engaging in the game of 20 questions is a road to nowhere. The hidden purpose of a lot of these questions to you is the intention of you being manipulated into giving the answers he wants to hear. The fact is that he knows the answers to his questions already, but he wants to hear them from you.

I am very sparing with questions, and ask them only if I want the person to clarify by giving me an example of what he or she is talking about. In the main, I give my opinions for what they are worth whether others agree with them or not. As soon as someone starts flaming or discrediting me (kicking the player instead of the ball) I know that they have run out of answers and that their position is very weak. I tend to bow out of discussion with them when they do that. Also when someone demands Scripture, I usually refer them back to Google, because they have the same access to Google as I do, and why should I "bark" if the "dog" could bark for itself? Not that I am calling anyone a dog, but it is what my wife says to me when driving on the motorway which she won't do. She insists that I drive because, "Why should I bark when I have a dog to bark for me?" The Bereans didn't demand Scripture support from Paul. They searched the Scriptures for themselves to see whether Paul's preaching "was so".

I came from a family of debaters, and so I enjoy the cut and thrust of debate. I particularly enjoy interacting with Arbiter1, even when he says I give false teaching and tells others not to be taken in by me. Swordsman1 is another respected brother who is cessationist and with whom I have had many stimulating exchange which mainly have ended up in stalemate after many pages of debate, especially in a tongues thread. CF would be boring without them. I have conceded defeat only once since I first joined CF in 2006, when a brother showed through Scripture that he was totally right and I was wrong.

So I agree with you, When a thread degenerates into a tit for tat one horse race, that is when it gets boring and often has to be closed down.

 

[Guojing]

The hidden purpose of a lot of these questions to you is the intention of you being manipulated into giving the answers he wants to hear. The fact is that he knows the answers to his questions already, but he wants to hear them from you.

I didn't realized God gave you the gift of reading people's minds.

You have never been a teacher before?