A question about Job.

[squint]

Poor thing would have been better killed in the trap. A cat might get hold of him and tease him before eating him alive. Otherwise he starves to death.

Well, that was the thing. It was so full of life regardless of the broken leg. When I released it from the trap it leaped away through the grass. Had it looked otherwise, sluggish, too slow to defend itself, etc, I'd have probably put it out of it's misery.

As if it didn't have enough misery already. I probably wiped out it's whole family to boot. I was thinking he would tell the other mice to stay away from the house. Bad mouse mojo there.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Look at what happened to the unbelieving Jews during the invasion of Jerusalem in 70AD (See the whole of Matthew chapter 23). In their case they died.....Legalism and self-righteousness always brings trouble. Job learned better; the unbelieving Jews died in their unbelief.

A lot of them suffered immensely before they died. The lucky ones could be considered the ones that died quickly.

It is similar to the events of the Jewish holocaust during Hitler's reign

Luke 21:23
"Woe to the ones in belly having and those suckling in those the days! For shall be distress great upon the Land and Wrath upon this people [Daniel 12]

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

.........The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover...........

.........Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive.
The Jews, for want of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen.
In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ;.....................

Many, falling amongst the smoking ruins of the porches and galleries, were suffocated. The unarmed poor, and even sick persons, were slaughtered without mercy. Of these unhappy people numbers were left weltering in their gore.
Multitudes of the dead and dying were heaped round about the altar, to which they had formerly fled for protection, while the steps that led from it into the outer court were literally deluged with their blood.............

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, to which must be added, above TWO-HUNDRED AND THIRTY-SEVEN THOUSAND who perished in other places,............

Reve 18:8 by this, in one day shall be arriving the blows of Her, death and sorrow and famine;

and in fire She shall be being burned, that strong Lord, the God, the one judging Her.

.

 

[brinny]

i'm rootin' fer that feisty li'l mouse Squint

 

[brinny]

interesting thoughts and feedback LLOJ, thank you for sharing.

 

[brinny]

the author of this commentary has just about the most solid grasp on the book of Job, on the man Job, and why all of what occurred to Job happened....

"There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil." ~Job 1:1

iv. This strong statement of the godliness of Job is important to understanding the rest of the story. Recognizing this righteousness of Job “will save us from the mistake of thinking at any point of those experiences as having their explanation in the man himself. Nor for himself did he suffer. His pains were not penalties for wrongdoing: they were not even chastisements for correction.” (Morgan)

v. “Job was ‘blameless.’ This does not mean Job was sinless, but blameless. There is a huge difference. Sin is vertical, blameless is horizontal. . . . as Job lived before the watchful eye of his peers, no one could justly charge Job with moral failure. His reputation was impeccable.” (Lawson)

vi. “The insistence on Job’s uprightness should not be weakened in the interests of a dogma of universal human depravity. Job is not considered to be perfect or sinless. All the speakers in the book, including Job himself, are convinced that men are sinful. Job’s first recorded act is to offer sacrifices for sin. This is not the point. It is possible for sinful men to be genuinely good.” (Anderson)

Job 1 - David Guzik Commentary on the Bible

 

[brinny]

....and i came across this comment, which mentioned Job:

Isaiah shares this honorable title, "my servant," with a select few among God's saints - with Abraham (Genesis 26:24), Moses (Numbers 12:7), Caleb (Numbers 14:24), Job (Job 1:8; Job 42:7, 8), Eliakim (Isaiah 22:20), and Zerubbabel (Haggai 2:23). It is a great acknowledgment for the Creator to make to the creature, that he really does him service.

Isaiah 20:3 Commentaries: And the LORD said, "Even as My servant Isaiah has gone naked and barefoot three years as a sign and token against Egypt and Cush,

 

[brinny]

The following commentary is from "The Literary and Theological Function of Job’s Wife in the Book of Job" by Victor Sasson:

What is central to the drama is the suffering and torments of Job himself. Perhaps more importantly, Job's wife is not a conscientious, devoted, sensible, compassionate wife like, say, Portia (the wife of Brutus). If she were such a wife, she would embrace her husband's suffering as her own. She would tell her husband it is God's will to submit oneself to adversity. She would be a tower of strength to him. We do not expect her to be the perfect, ideal wife – portrayed in chapter 31 of the Book of Proverbs –, one who speaks nothing but wisdom and lovingkindness; but we do expect her to be a sensible, God-fearing woman. The Prologue to the Book of Job, however, makes it quite clear that she is fickle and sacrilegious. In fact, she only adds to her husband's suffering, distancing herself from him. She has developed a loathing for him. In the words of Job himself:

My breath is noisome to my wife (Job 19:17a).

She is, indeed, a foolish woman, speaking like one of those foolish female chatterers. She makes an outrageous, blasphemous suggestion: to curse God and incur the penalty of death. In a sense, she joins hands with the Adversary, Satan.

Victor Sasson, «The Literary and Theological Function of Job’s Wife in the Book of Job» biblica, Vol. 79 (1998) 86-90 page 86

 

[squint]

The following commentary is from "The Literary and Theological Function of Job’s Wife in the Book of Job" by Victor Sasson:

OR maybe that was her way of trying to pull Job up from the doldrums of despair.

Get over it or move out of this current life.

No one should say she was not just as much in despair over the loss of her children, even if it is not recorded for us.

Yet she also bucked up and produced more later.

I doubt Job was cooking and cleaning for himself while sitting is his dust and ash pile feeling sorry for himself.

 

[brinny]

Thank you kindly for sharing.

 

[brinny]

I came across a commentary regarding Job's seven sons and three daughters:

e. His sons would go and feast in their houses, each on his appointed day: The idea of this description seems to be that Job’s family had a happy and close relationship. This reinforces the idea that Job and his family were greatly blessed, and does not seem to indicate that they were unduly given over to festivity and pleasure-seeking. They happily celebrated special days (each on his appointed day), probably their birthdays.

i. “No disapproval of this pleasant life is expressed. We need not suppose that they spent all their time in roistering and did no work. There is no hint of drunkenness or licence or laziness.” (Anderson)

ii. “If he had condemned it he would never have offered sacrifice to God, lest they should have sinned, but he would have told them at once it was a sinful thing, and that he could give no countenance to it.” (Spurgeon) Spurgeon saw in Job 1:4-5 a permission for feasting and celebration among believers; he preached a Christmas sermon upon this very text and used it as proof that God allows and enjoys such celebrations among His people.

f. Job would send and sanctify them, and he would rise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings: Again, the idea seems to be much more that Job was a scrupulously godly man who served as a priest to his family, more than that his children were wicked people who needed constant atonement.

i. “What a beautiful example is furnished by Job to Christian parents! When your girls are going among strangers, and your boys into the great ways of the world, and you are unable to impose your will upon them, as in the days of childhood, you can yet pray for them, casting over them the shield of intercession, with strong cryings and tears. They are beyond your reach; but by faith you can move the arm of God on their behalf.” (Meyer)

Job 1 - David Guzik Commentary on the Bible

I would like to re-iterate this comment below, to emphasize that what Job did here was BECAUSE he was Godly and "stood-in" for his children...not because his children were "wicked", but because he was a Godly man, and this is what a Godly man does. He "stands in" for his children in prayer, covering them:

f. Job would send and sanctify them, and he would rise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings: Again, the idea seems to be much more that Job was a scrupulously godly man who served as a priest to his family, more than that his children were wicked people who needed constant atonement.

 

[brinny]

Job's wife appeared to be "finished" with Job. She had HAD it. He was no more good to her. Job had lost everything, and i'm assuming losing everything meant the very house he and his wife lived in. She was perhaps living back in her father's house or with other family. Their children were tragically and suddenly killed, all of them, all at once.

What stands out for me, however, and always has, is what she says to Job, her husband, a man she admits even then, is a man of integrity. She says:

"Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die." ~Job 2:9

What stands out for me is that, although she admits even then that Job is a man of integrity -and her saying this is a testimony that confirms what God said about Job- she tells Job to do exactly what Satan wanted him to do (this was the entire point of why this was happening to Job -refer back to the conversation God had with Satan, unbeknownst to Job)

She did not love Job. She was immune to the horrendous suffering he was enduring. Just as her words, although not loving words but words of scorn and contempt testified to Job being a man of integrity, her very own words testified about her own heart towards Job and God. She cared for neither. It is quite likely that she forsook Job completely after she told him to curse God and die.

Here's an excerpt from a commentary on Job's wife:

At the end of Job’s life, God blessed him with double his earthly wealth and with 10 more children. No woman in the Bible had 20 children. So, though not recorded, Job most probably lost his first wife and it was the new Mrs. Job that gave him 10 more children, 7 sons and 3 daughters. And remember, these children did not physically resemble the first family.

Job's Wife | Dody Gibson | Curse God and Die

 

[brinny]

This song and the lyrics could describe Job's own heart cry as He cries out to His God in the midst of a devastatedly broken, grieving heart and ripped asunder body, mind, and soul....and there's no answer. (There was a purpose in all of this, yet at that most anguishing excruciating time when it was excruciating to even draw each breath, Job was unaware of the "whys" of all that occurred and that continued relentlessly pounding him)......He was also excruciatingly aware of and baffled by what appeared to be (at that time) God's "absence" and silence

Hold My Heart - Tenth Avenue North - YouTube

Hold My Heart

How long must I pray, must I pray to You
How long must I wait, must I wait for You
How long 'till I see Your face
See You shining through

I'm on my knees
Begging You to notice me
I'm on my knees
Father, will You turn to me, yeah?

One tear in the dropping rain
One voice in a sea of pain
Could the Maker of the stars
Hear the sound of my breaking heart?

One life is all I am
Right now I can barely stand
If You're everything You say You are
Would You come close and hold my heart?

I've been so afraid, afraid to close my eyes
So much can slip away before I say goodbye
But if there's no other way
I'm done asking why

'Cause I'm on my knees
Begging You to turn to me
I'm on my knees
Father, will You run to me, yeah?

One tear in the dropping rain
One voice in a sea of pain
Could the Maker of the stars
Hear the sound of my breaking heart?

One life is all I am
Right now I can barely stand
If You're everything You say You are
Would You come close and hold my heart?

So many questions without answers
Your promises remain
I can't see but I'll take my chances
To hear You call my name
To hear You call my name

One tear in the dropping rain
One voice in a sea of pain
Could the Maker of the stars
Hear the sound of my breaking heart?

One life is all I am
Right now I can barely stand
If You're everything You say You are
Would You come close and hold my heart?

Hold my heart
Could You hold my heart?
Hold my heart

~Tenth Avenue North​

 

[brinny]

I just came across this verse that i had never noticed before and it just looomed out, almost like it "lit up" as i read it:

"By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith." ~Hebrews 11:7

Here's the bottom line:

The relationship with God of every Godly man throughout biblical history "pivoted" on the "fear of the Lord". It's the "key" that set Job apart and why God defined him as He did, and thus why he was targeted by Satan.

There's a verse that is vastly ignored or skimmed over and not seen for the very treasure it is, in that it is the very verse that is the basis for our relationship with El Elyon, the living God. It's the "key" to God's heart:

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." ~Proverbs 9:10

 

[faroukfarouk]

I just came across this verse that i had never noticed before and it just looomed out, almost like it "lit up" as i read it:

"By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith." ~Hebrews 11:7

Here's the bottom line:

The relationship with God of every Godly man throughout biblical history "pivoted" on the "fear of the Lord". It's the "key" that set Job apart and why God defined him as He did, and thus why he was targeted by Satan.

There's a verse that is vastly ignored or skimmed over and not seen for the very treasure it is, in that it is the very verse that is the basis for our relationship with El Elyon, the living God. It's the "key" to God's heart:

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." ~Proverbs 9:10

Psalm 111 says something very similar also about the fear of the Lord.

Blessings.

 

[brinny]

Thank you. I just looked it up...it's a treasure:

Psalm 111

1 Praise ye the LORD. I will praise the LORD with my whole heart, in the assembly of the upright, and in the congregation.

2 The works of the LORD are great, sought out of all them that have pleasure therein.

3 His work is honourable and glorious: and his righteousness endureth for ever.

4 He hath made his wonderful works to be remembered: the LORD is gracious and full of compassion.

5 He hath given meat unto them that fear him: he will ever be mindful of his covenant.

6 He hath shewed his people the power of his works, that he may give them the heritage of the heathen.

7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.

8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.

9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.

10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.


In meditating on verse 5, this other verse comes to mind that i just read this morning:

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it." ~Revelation 2:17

 

[squint]

There's a verse that is vastly ignored or skimmed over and not seen for the very treasure it is, in that it is the very verse that is the basis for our relationship with El Elyon, the living God. It's the "key" to God's heart:

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." ~Proverbs 9:10

It's one thing to give phony religious lip service to 'fear of the Lord.'

It's quite another to 'experience it.' As it is utterly horrifying to the core of one's being.

It is even another to understand that it is soundly scripturally based.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
There's a verse that is vastly ignored or skimmed over and not seen for the very treasure it is, in that it is the very verse that is the basis for our relationship with El Elyon, the living God. It's the "key" to God's heart:

It's one thing to give phony religious lip service to 'fear of the Lord.'

It's quite another to 'experience it.' As it is utterly horrifying to the core of one's being.

It is even another to understand that it is soundly scripturally based.

Would you care to elaborate?

(Do you think that God knows the difference?)

Thank you kindly.

 

[squint]

Would you care to elaborate?

(Do you think that God knows the difference?)

Thank you kindly.

It may be something to look forward to in your hopefully long life's christian experiences. It's not something that can be conveyed to anyone by anyone else.

Chastisement and tribulation is a personal matter. It is real. It is utterly horrifying. And it is very sound theology.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
Would you care to elaborate?

(Do you think that God knows the difference?)

Thank you kindly.

It may be something to look forward to in your hopefully long life's christian experiences. It's not something that can be conveyed to anyone by anyone else.

Chastisement and tribulation is a personal matter. It is real. It is utterly horrifying. And it is very sound theology.

The "fear of the Lord" is about "chastisement"?

Thank you kindly.

 

[squint]

The "fear of the Lord" is about "chastisement"?

Thank you kindly.

Absolutely. Job, in his sufferings, shows that he was in fact very very much loved by God.

This is a somewhat hard principle to come to understand or to come to grips with without 'experience.'

Judgment, tribulation and chastisements are a very intimate part of being a believer. They are mandatory.