A question about Job.

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
I am focusing on what God Himself said in the very beginning of the book....and how He establishes right from the beginning what we are to keep in mind ....this man (Job) that God Himself calls righteous.

Peace.

Yes, and while you only focus of that you miss the rest of the story. Hence you can't see the total picture.

If God was speaking of His view of Job then why did in the end Job state that he was actually "vile"? See Job 40:3 KJV.

Also, if Job was blameless (as he claimed in Job 31:6), then why did he repent? See Job 42:6

Apparently Job had a problem. Yes, he believed in God, but so did the Pharisees. The difference is Job repented, but the Pharisees did not.

It was GOD Himself Who called Job "blameless". It is also spelled out why God called Job "blameless" in those very same verses. It is from this foundation ("anchor", "keys") that God Himself lays down in the very beginning that is to be in place before reading the rest of this inexplicable treasure of a book. In the rest of God's Word is also "keys" to why Job was considered "wise". One such example is here:

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." ~Proverbs 9:10

God Himself said that Job "feared" Him. This is a trait of every Godly man who "walked" with and "knew" God, throughout Biblical history. These men "feared" God.

Peace brother.

 

[Setyoufree]

It was GOD Himself Who called Job "blameless". It is also spelled out why God called Job "blameless" in those very same verses. It is from this foundation ("anchor", "keys") that God Himself lays down in the very beginning that is to be in place before reading the rest of this inexplicable treasure of a book. In the rest of God's Word is also "keys" to why Job was considered "wise". One such example is here:

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." ~Proverbs 9:10

God Himself said that Job "feared" Him. This is a trait of every Godly man who "walked" with and "knew" God, throughout Biblical history. These men "feared" God.

Peace brother.

Like I said, you totally ignore the rest of the book of Job.

Again, why did Job go from stating he was blameless before God to vile before God?

Why did a blameless, sinless man repent?

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
It was GOD Himself Who called Job "blameless". It is also spelled out why God called Job "blameless" in those very same verses. It is from this foundation ("anchor", "keys") that God Himself lays down in the very beginning that is to be in place before reading the rest of this inexplicable treasure of a book. In the rest of God's Word is also "keys" to why Job was considered "wise". One such example is here:

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." ~Proverbs 9:10

God Himself said that Job "feared" Him. This is a trait of every Godly man who "walked" with and "knew" God, throughout Biblical history. These men "feared" God.

Peace brother.

Like I said, you totally ignore the rest of the book of Job.

Again, why did Job go from stating he was blameless before God to vile before God?

Why did a blameless, sinless man repent?

It was GOD Who called Job "blameless", did He not? Did God lie?

 

[Setyoufree]

It was GOD Who called Job "blameless", did He not? Did God lie?

Brinny...you didn't answer my questions....Unless you read past the first and second chapter you just keep going in circles....

No, God didn't lie because if you read the whole book of God you will realize that God is presenting Job's view of himself before Satan. Remember, Satan is accusing and God can't defend Job from Satan's accusations because Job was justifying himself before God.

If God was representing Job through faith Satan wouldn't have touched him. But since he was self-righteous God allowed Job to go through this ordeal. Apparently it was the only way to open Job's eyes.....

 

[brinny]

i posted this link earlier and posting it again, because as i'm listening, something was mentioned that i had not noticed the first time i listened.....and here is what was mentioned that only in listening again did i notice:

Satan's favorite thing to do is to kick someone when they're down specifically as they are dragging, in body, mind, heart, and spirit.

In thinking about this, what comes to mind is what Job's four "friends", and his wife did. Each of them kicked Job when he was at his lowest low possible. They kicked him when he was down.

Here's the sermon, from Wisdom For The Heart's pastor Dr. Stephen Davey. It's called: "A Monument of Praise in the Valley of Despair"

Wisdom for the Heart

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
It was GOD Who called Job "blameless", did He not? Did God lie?

Brinny...you didn't answer my questions....Unless you read past the first and second chapter you just keep going in circles....

No, God didn't lie because if you read the whole book of God you will realize that God is presenting Job's view of himself before Satan. Remember, Satan is accusing and God can't defend Job from Satan's accusations because Job was justifying himself before God.

If God was representing Job through faith Satan wouldn't have touched him. But since he was self-righteous God allowed Job to go through this ordeal. Apparently it was the only way to open Job's eyes.....

Thank you for sharing your opinion that God didn't really say what He did. You are entitled to your opinion on that. I disagree, for it is written clear as a bell what God HIMSELF said.

but i ain't hatin' on ya' for giving your opinion.

Peace.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

His friends might have been wrong in their response on some things but His friends were loyal to him. They mourned with him for 7 days and 7 nights as he mourn for his family. You don't turn away from friends like that.

 

[brinny]

His friends might have been wrong in their response on some things but His friends were loyal to him. They mourned with him for 7 days and 7 nights as he mourn for his family. You don't turn away from friends like that.

That is a good point. Thank you. What was wrong in some of their responses?

 

[TillICollapse]

His friends might have been wrong in their response on some things but His friends were loyal to him. They mourned with him for 7 days and 7 nights as he mourn for his family. You don't turn away from friends like that.

I don't know if they necessarily were mourning with him because of their loyalty and friendship from their hearts ... but that's my opinion. Did any of them ask to trade places with him ? Did any ask, "God, if you are doing this to Job, please do it to me instead and spare my friend Job" ? I see them as offering words but no power, preaching instead of exemplifying grace. They did not stand in the gap for Job, they stood to the side. Imo.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by daydreamergurl15 View Post
His friends might have been wrong in their response on some things but His friends were loyal to him. They mourned with him for 7 days and 7 nights as he mourn for his family. You don't turn away from friends like that.

I don't know if they necessarily were mourning with him because of their loyalty and friendship from their hearts ... but that's my opinion. Did any of them ask to trade places with him ? Did any ask, "God, if you are doing this to Job, please do it to me instead and spare my friend Job" ? I see them as offering words but no power, preaching instead of exemplifying grace. They did not stand in the gap for Job, they stood to the side. Imo.

Interesting points. Especially where you mention they did not "stand in the gap".....this was what i found painfully missing, that they did not stand in the gap nor even pray for Job.

Thank you for your astute and discerning thoughts on this.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Maybe the story of Job is more of an example of Satan's failure and arrogance than Job's righteousness.

Satan thinks God is buying people's love by bestowing blessings upon them and sets to prove it, God is just proving to him that people love Him because of love alone and not for His blessings. Angel's aren't omniscience like God. God is showing that true love isn't shown through the things one has.

 

[brinny]

Maybe the story of Job is more of an example of Satan's failure and arrogance than Job's righteousness.

Satan thinks God is buying people's love by bestowing blessings upon them and sets to prove it, God is just proving to him that people love Him because of love alone and not for His blessings. Angel's aren't omniscience like God. God is showing that true love isn't shown through the things one has.

You just hit on something that is mentioned in the sermon.....yes, it appears that there was a much BIGGER point being made in the heavenlies as God allowed all of this to unfold. God ALREADY "knew" Job's heart, and knew why Job loved Him. He KNEW the motives and the heart of Job. THIS is a "key" to understanding the Book of Job, BEFORE all of these events un-fold, and also why what God said about Job is emphasized more than once in the very beginning of the book.

Thank you for sharing that.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

You just hit on something that is mentioned in the sermon.....yes, it appears that there was a much BIGGER point being made in the heavenlies as God allowed all of this to unfold. God ALREADY "knew" Job's heart, and knew why Job loved Him. He KNEW the motives and the heart of Job. THIS is a "key" to understanding the Book of Job, BEFORE all of these events un-fold, and also why what God said about Job is emphasized more than once in the very beginning of the book.

Thank you for sharing that.

I was reading the Satanology section of my theology book and it said something about Satan's arrogance toward's God in the story and I sort of built upon that idea.

I think thats the core of the story we overlook, not the "Well, poop happens because it does so suck it up and Praise the Lord!" as some people think the story of Job is about.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
You just hit on something that is mentioned in the sermon.....yes, it appears that there was a much BIGGER point being made in the heavenlies as God allowed all of this to unfold. God ALREADY "knew" Job's heart, and knew why Job loved Him. He KNEW the motives and the heart of Job. THIS is a "key" to understanding the Book of Job, BEFORE all of these events un-fold, and also why what God said about Job is emphasized more than once in the very beginning of the book.

Thank you for sharing that.

I was reading the Satanology section of my theology book and it said something about Satan's arrogance toward's God in the story and I sort of built upon that idea.

I think thats the core of the story we overlook, not the "Well, poop happens because it does so suck it up and Praise the Lord!" as some people think the story of Job is about.

Yes, there was a HUGE battle raging in the heavenlies as all of heaven watched. Satan was, in essence, as you said with all his arrogance, that Job didn't really love God and that's because God is NOT WORTHY of Job's love and Satan is bound and determined to "prove" it.

Edifying brother, thank you.

 

[brinny]

Job 2:9-10

"Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die. But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips."[/SIZE]

Wisdom for the Heart

(i'll comment later on this study/sermon).

 

[Setyoufree]

Thank you for sharing your opinion that God didn't really say what He did.

No, He said it, but He was speaking in Job's place....He was presenting Job as Job presented himself to God.

 

[Seeking Him]

Here's a quote from commentator John Phillips:

One of the great questions underlying the book of Job was this: would Job's experience triumph over his theology, or would Job's theology triumph over hid experience? People say today that doctrine is divisive. People's experiences are allowed to annul doctrine. Did Job's? Job was shaken by the storms of disaster that swept over him wave after wave. But he held true to his beliefs. Though he slay me, yet will I trust him. It is a good thing that Job had something more substantial than today's prosperity message to support him when his world caved in. He lost family fortune, friends, and his wife's support. And none of it made sense. The comforters believed that a godly man could expect riches, good health and long life. But Job's theology triumphed.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
Thank you for sharing your opinion that God didn't really say what He did.

No, He said it, but He was speaking in Job's place....He was presenting Job as Job presented himself to God.

God said it with His own mouth. The entire reason Job was chosen to be the recipient of all that Satan did "without cause" was because Job was counted as "righteous" as any man of God has been in all of Biblical history when they fear God, eschew evil, and "walk" with God.

God described Job. It was HIS own words that described Job, not Job's. God was pointing out to Satan that His servant Job loved God. Satan was bound and determined to prove God a liar (that's the BIGGER picture here), as all of heaven watched all of the events unfold. God KNEW Job's heart, because Job "knew" God. God ALREADY "knew" Job's heart before any of this occurred and before the conversation came up between Satan and God.

You are, however entitled to your opinion. It's not the first time this phrase was asked "...did God say?" It was asked earlier in Genesis, and has been asked throughout history.

Peace.

 

[brinny]

Here's a quote from commentator John Phillips:

One of the great questions underlying the book of Job was this: would Job's experience triumph over his theology, or would Job's theology triumph over hid experience? People say today that doctrine is divisive. People's experiences are allowed to annul doctrine. Did Job's? Job was shaken by the storms of disaster that swept over him wave after wave. But he held true to his beliefs. Though he slay me, yet will I trust him. It is a good thing that Job had something more substantial than today's prosperity message to support him when his world caved in. He lost family fortune, friends, and his wife's support. And none of it made sense. The comforters believed that a godly man could expect riches, good health and long life. But Job's theology triumphed.

Excellent quote.

 

[Seeking Him]

God said it with His own mouth. The entire reason Job was chosen to be the recipient of all that Satan did "without cause" was because Job was counted as "righteous" as any man of God has been in all of Biblical history when they fear God, eschew evil, and "walk" with God.

God described Job. It was HIS own words that described Job, not Job's. God was pointing out to Satan that His servant Job loved God. Satan was bound and determined to prove God a liar (that's the BIGGER picture here), as all of heaven watched all of the events unfold. God KNEW Job's heart, because Job "knew" God. God ALREADY "knew" Job's heart before any of this occurred and before the conversation came up between Satan and God.

You are, however entitled to your opinion. It's not the first time this phrase was asked "...did God say?" It was asked earlier in Genesis, and has been asked throughout history.

Peace.

Yes, God said Job was righteous.