A question about Job.

[brinny]

hahaaaaa thanks....i THOUGHT that's what it said in those verses

 

[Setyoufree]

Job's theology triumphed.

No, it did not! Job had to let go of his legalistic theology. He repented after all....

 

[Setyoufree]

Elihu to Job

"So Job opens his mouth with empty talk; without knowledge he multiplies words." (Job 35:16)


God to Job

Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said: 2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?"

Job to God

Job 42:1 Then Job answered the Lord and said: .... 3 You asked, 'Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?' Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.... 6 Therefore I abhor myself, And repent in dust and ashes."

 

[Setyoufree]

God said it with His own mouth.

Job 35:1 (Elihu to Job) Do you think it is just when you say, "I am righteous before God"? (HCS)

Within the context of Job chapter 35, Elihu says:

"So Job opens his mouth with empty talk; without knowledge he multiplies words." (Job 35:16)

In other words Job is self-deceived in his claims to righteousness.

The question is does God agree with what Elihu stated? Remember Elihu claims to speak in God's behalf (see Job 36:1).

Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said: 2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?"

This is the first time God speaks directly to Job. So when did God counsel Job?

Answer: Through Elihu!

God is in agreement with Elihu! Both of them tell Job that his claims to righteousness are words spoken without knowledge. What is Job's reply?

"Then Job answered the Lord and said: 4 "Behold, I am vile; What shall I answer You? I lay my hand over my mouth.

What a difference we see in Job now. Before this Job claimed to be righteous before God. He claimed to be without sin. He claimed to be blameless.

But now we see a changed man. We see a humble Job who realizes that his righteousness was really self-righteousness and he realized that in comparison to God's righteousness he was actually "vile".

Not only did Job have a change of heart but he also repented of his self-righteousness:

Job 42:1 Then Job answered the Lord and said: .... 3 You asked, 'Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?' Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.... 6 Therefore I abhor myself, And repent in dust and ashes."

 

[brinny]

No, it did not! Job had to let go of his legalistic theology. He repented after all....

Job's heart was right before God. There are other Godly men in God's Word whose hearts were right before God. They walked this verse out, and "lived" and "breathed" it:

"He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" ~Micah 6:8

Job did all three. He did justly. He loved mercy. He walked humbly with his God. In addition, someone who "walks" with God, "fears" Him. And in fearing God, their heart "eschews" evil.

Job and these other Godly men lived out Micah 6:8 in their hearts. Thus God HIMSELF declared them righteous before Him, for it was GOD's own righteousness that "covered" them. Throughout the Bible, God declares other Godly men righteous. Here's the clincher. They ALL glorified God. They LOVED God's holy-ness and they sought to glorify HIM.

Based on what is written about Job, it is clear he was a Godly man BEFORE Satan barraged against him, and that NONE of these disasters occurred because of something Job had done. God HIMSELF confirms this when He said this to Satan:

"And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause." ~Genesis 2:3

All that occurred was without "cause".

What is also clear about Job is that he was a wise man:

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding."~Proverbs 9:10

A wise man fears God. In fearing God we bow ourselves before Him, and yield our hearts, minds, souls to Him. This is not possible if one does not "fear" God. To "fear" God one has already established that he is the "created" and that God Almighty is Creator and is to be worshiped as such. The testimony from this one's heart has already risen to God. And God in turn "covers" that one with HIS righteousness.

God was saying that Job was righteous "in Him".

During ALL of the devastating poundings that came against Job, Job's "righteous" standing before God stayed as it was, from the first chapter to the last. In the last chapter, Job was acknowledging that he was the "created" and that God was Creator. He was acknowledging that his mind was "finite" and that God's was not. He was in the presence of the living God. THAT would bring anyone to fall on their face in the dust and acknowledge that we are the "created" and that God is Creator God.

The word "repent" here is a study in itself. It is meant to be read in context. For instance there is the verse where God says that He "repented" of making man (Genesis, chapter 6). The question is, did God say this because He had sinned?

 

[Setyoufree]

Job's heart was right before God.

Yes, I'll agree with that statement. Job was honestly deceived. He believed in God...his faith was in God, but Job had a problem and that problem got him into trouble. His problem was he was self-righteous.

 

[Setyoufree]

He walked humbly with his God.

No, he was not a humble man until after his ordeal.

Before this we see a haughty, self-righteous man who went so far as to justify himself before God.

 

[Setyoufree]

Elihu to Job

"So Job opens his mouth with empty talk; without knowledge he multiplies words." (Job 35:16)


God to Job

Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said: 2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?"

Job to God

Job 42:1 Then Job answered the Lord and said: .... 3 You asked, 'Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?' Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.... 6 Therefore I abhor myself, And repent in dust and ashes."

I noticed, brinney, you just ignored the above....That's not doing justice to the context of the book of Job. Ignoring the above facts just makes your position weaker.

 

[brinny]

i don't have a "position" brother. I'm just reading the book of Job and seeing what it says. Just a side note.....what stands out quite glaringly is Elihu's pompousness, and his self-righteousness. What also stands out glaringly is all four of these men who came to "help" Job through this excruciating state he was in, never once even "prayed" for him. THIS is a HUGE clue to the condition of their hearts and it indicates who they were speaking on behalf of. And it wasn't God.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

After God restores Job, what happens to his wife and his three friends?

well .. i know what Harold Weir's character would say ..

Harold Weir - He's dead! - Freaks and Geeks - YouTube

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
After God restores Job, what happens to his wife and his three friends?

well .. i know what Harold Weir's character would say ..

Harold Weir - He's dead! - Freaks and Geeks - YouTube

hahaaaaaa before i even clicked on the video i was laughin'

cuz Mike, yu iz funny...

that was hilarious

 

[Gregory Thompson]

hahaaaaaa before i even clicked on the video i was laughin'

cuz Mike, yu iz funny...

that was hilarious

hehe

 

[brinny]

that dad's almost as funny as the dad in "Christmas Story"

 

[Setyoufree]

Just a side note.....what stands out quite glaringly is Elihu's pompousness, and his self-righteousness.

When you, in your smugness, attack Elihu you are attacking God for both are in agreement about Job. I've clearly illustrated this fact, but as always, you ignore it....

Please show me where Elihu was self-righteous. I need actual biblical evidence, not supposition and slander.

...all four of these men who came to "help" Job through this excruciating state he was in, never once even "prayed" for him......

Elihu actually helped Job see his problem, until God stepped in.

 

[brinny]

Elihu was not God, nor was he speaking for God. He was "shooting" a very wounded and suffering Job. He was doing what Satan's favorite thing to do is: kick someone when they are at their lowest.

 

[Setyoufree]

Elihu was not...speaking for God.

That's your words against the context of the book of Job. Who should I listen to, Brinny or the Written Word? Answer: The latter.

Tell you what...disprove me here:

Elihu to Job

"So Job opens his mouth with empty talk; without knowledge he multiplies words." (Job 35:16)


God to Job

Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said: 2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?"

Job to God

Job 42:1 Then Job answered the Lord and said: .... 3 You asked, 'Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?' Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.... 6 Therefore I abhor myself, And repent in dust and ashes."

 

[brinny]

Elihu was a lot of hot air. He merely ADDED to an already suffering Job. He got all puffed up with himself, claiming to be God's "spokesman" as he ignored Job's suffering and ADDED to it, which indicates the condition of his heart and character.

 

[Setyoufree]

Elihu was a lot of hot air.

God doesn't take this view of Elihu. This is supposition. You are highly opinionated, but it is outside the truth concerning Job. Elihu showed Job his problem. It was a blessing. He exposed Job's problem.

 

[Setyoufree]

Elihu was a lot of hot air. He merely ADDED to an already suffering Job.

If you want to blame someone, other than Job, blame God because none of this could have happened unless God allowed it. But ultimately Job is to blame....He had a lesson to learn and apparently this was the only way.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
Elihu was a lot of hot air. He merely ADDED to an already suffering Job.

If you want to blame someone, other than Job, blame God because none of this could have happened unless God allowed it. But ultimately Job is to blame....He had a lesson to learn and apparently this was the only way.

We disagree brother. Elihu was being used of Satan to further buffet and torture Job. There was nothing of God in him. He was, in essence, another "plague" that came against Job.

Kicking someone when they're down is not of God. It is of Satan. Much of what Elihu said to Job was vicious and evil and he blatantly lied about Job, and all while Job was suffering so miserably and in agony beyond words, and thinking he might just die that way, while Elihu pounded on and on. Reminds me of those nails pounding into Jesus.