A question about Job.

brinny · Oct 3, 2014

Interesting thoughts.....kinda' gets me to thinkin' and wonderin'.....was all of this taking place because there was something lacking in Job?

Thank you kindly.

BobRyan · Oct 3, 2014

God declared Job to be without any real problems. But no doubt there was maturing and character growth involved in passing through such an extreme trial. Many people live and die without going through such a thing.

At the end of time - there will be those who must endure something similar to Job - maybe not so much with disease as with the loss of everything and mental anguish. A time when being fully grounded in the word of God will be the only way out.

In Rev 16 you have the 7 last plagues.

In Rev 19 the second coming.

But in Rev 15:8 you have the sanctuary in heaven shut down - specifically so that the 7 last plagues can be poured out.

in 1 John 2:1 we are told that Christ stands in that sanctuary as our High Priest - our Advocate ... and this is the "main point" of Heb 8:1-6.

So then Rev 15:8 is pointing to a time when that ministry ends - and the 7 last plagues are poured out (the events of Rev 16).

Which means that before we get to the Rev 19 2nd coming event - there is going to be a pretty tight squeeze - between a rock and hard-place.

A little bit "Job like".

in Christ,

Bob

brinny · Oct 3, 2014

Thinkin' again here.....just wonderin'......the entire scenario......was it about JOB or something else?

Thank you kindly.

brinny · Oct 3, 2014

I gotta get offline. Thank you kindly for this edifying exchange.

G'nite.

BobRyan · Oct 3, 2014

brinny said:
Thinkin' again here.....just wonderin'......the entire scenario......was it about JOB or something else?

Thank you kindly.

I think they were just using Job to help demonstrate the larger issues they were exploring.

Bob

Strong in Him · Oct 4, 2014

brinny said:
Thank you for your response. Job had more children later, didn't he? Who might the mother of these later children been? Any thoughts on that?

Thank you kindly.

I haven't really thought about it, to be honest.

Job's wife had lost all her children too - when she told Job to "curse God and die" she may well have been speaking out of grief. Job may have known this and forgave her. Or maybe she cursed God and did die. I don't know if women were allowed to divorce their husbands then, so she either died and he remarried, or Job, and God, forgave her.

But Scripture doesn't say.

brinny · Oct 17, 2014

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
Thank you for your response. Job had more children later, didn't he? Who might the mother of these later children been? Any thoughts on that?

Thank you kindly.

Strong in Him said:
I haven't really thought about it, to be honest.

Job's wife had lost all her children too - when she told Job to "curse God and die" she may well have been speaking out of grief. Job may have known this and forgave her. Or maybe she cursed God and did die. I don't know if women were allowed to divorce their husbands then, so she either died and he remarried, or Job, and God, forgave her.

But Scripture doesn't say.

What comes to mind for me is that she was not under attack as Job was. Yes she lost all 10 children as well, yet she was not suffering as Job was. He had ALSO lost all 10 children, but it did not stop there. Now examining what he did as he heard about his children's sudden and tragic deaths, he does something that indicates why God said what He said about Job from the beginning in the very first verses of the Book of Job.

Yet, for Job he is continuing to be targeted. His wife, most likely, went to stay with her family, because they had lost the house they were living in, as Job was now living on a dung/ash heap in the dump of the city. He was diseased, so much so, that his friends didn't even recognize him. Getting back to his wife, she apparently visited Job at the dung hill and that's when she blasted him with what she said. And to take it further, she was doing this to her husband, who she said in her very own words, was a man of integrity, and she said this in the midst of her very telling words to him that stabbed him in the heart. It was not her intention to, but she just unwittingly testified of Job's character, here:

"Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die." ~Job 2:9

Her character on the other hand is quite telling. She just testified against herself by saying that she had no regard for her husband of integrity, who she knew loved God, nor regard for his God.

There is a Bible verse that says that those who have no regard for God will disappear into obscurity and their name not remembered. Her name is never mentioned. The verse is sorta' the opposite of this verse:

"And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:" ~Isaiah 58:10

His wife did the opposite. She kicked her husband and his God in the teeth, and at a most painful and sorely suffering time for Job, as he sat in the dung heap with sores head to toe that had worms in them.

She condemned herself here, by her very own words.

What also comes to mind is this verse:

"Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake." ~Isaiah 54:15

and this one:

"No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD." ~Isaiah 54:17

Job's wife gathered against him, even as she knew her husband was a man of integrity and maintained his integrity in the midst of inexplicable suffering, yet she gathered against him in the worst way. Her tongue rose against her suffering-beyond-description husband. In essence she had become a curse to him. As it says in Isaiah 54:15 ---> "they shall surely gather together, but not by me" She was being used by God's adversary and Job's, Satan himself. It wasn't God who sent her on this mission.

It appears that these were her parting words to Job, and after saying them, she left.

Thank you kindly.

brinny · Oct 17, 2014

BobRyan said:
God declared Job to be without any real problems. But no doubt there was maturing and character growth involved in passing through such an extreme trial. Many people live and die without going through such a thing.

At the end of time - there will be those who must endure something similar to Job - maybe not so much with disease as with the loss of everything and mental anguish. A time when being fully grounded in the word of God will be the only way out.

In Rev 16 you have the 7 last plagues.

In Rev 19 the second coming.

But in Rev 15:8 you have the sanctuary in heaven shut down - specifically so that the 7 last plagues can be poured out.

in 1 John 2:1 we are told that Christ stands in that sanctuary as our High Priest - our Advocate ... and this is the "main point" of Heb 8:1-6.

So then Rev 15:8 is pointing to a time when that ministry ends - and the 7 last plagues are poured out (the events of Rev 16).

Which means that before we get to the Rev 19 2nd coming event - there is going to be a pretty tight squeeze - between a rock and hard-place.

A little bit "Job like".

in Christ,

Bob

God establishes his own description of Job in the beginning of the Book of Job. What is that description?

Thank you kindly.

BobRyan · Oct 17, 2014

brinny said:
God establishes his own description of Job in the beginning of the Book of Job. What is that description?

Thank you kindly.

God said "8 The Lord said to Satan, Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil. "

brinny · Oct 17, 2014

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
God establishes his own description of Job in the beginning of the Book of Job. What is that description?

Thank you kindly.

BobRyan said:
God said "8 The Lord said to Satan, Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil. "

In light of what God said, was there anything that indicates that God was "teaching" Job something or "chastising" him for something by allowing all that occurred to happen to Job?

Thank you kindly.

BobRyan · Oct 17, 2014

I don't think the point was to correct Job. It was to solve some larger question that was being raised in those two council meetings in Job 1 and 2.

brinny · Oct 17, 2014

BobRyan said:
I don't think the point was to correct Job. It was to solve some larger question that was being raised in those two council meetings in Job 1 and 2.

Would you mind elaborating?

Thank you kindly.

Fireinfolding · Oct 17, 2014

Strong in Him said:
I haven't really thought about it, to be honest.

Job's wife had lost all her children too - when she told Job to "curse God and die" she may well have been speaking out of grief. Job may have known this and forgave her. Or maybe she cursed God and did die. I don't know if women were allowed to divorce their husbands then, so she either died and he remarried, or Job, and God, forgave her.

But Scripture doesn't say.

Hey there Strong in Him

Its interesting because her voice mirrors Satan's, who had said, " But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.

And this was given to Satan to do

And then Job's wife (which very much seems to reflect being taken captive of the devil to do his will here) which was to tempt Job to curse God, says to her husband, "Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die"

And heres the thing, the obvious hadnt dawned on me (until much later) that she too is Job's "flesh and bone", and as the Serpent worked through the woman to get to Adam (to even hearken to the voice of his wife) here would seem to be the same thing (Satan working through Job's wife) towards him, or the woman (his own flesh and bone) to get him to "curse God" (and die).

Not only that, but here would seem to be an example of what could possibly be understood as "a temptation" (in Job's flesh) as well. He being tempted through his flesh to do what Satan's own words stated he would do if his flesh and bone were touched. But his doing so can be seen in a twofold manner. For one, being touched in his flesh (and bone) of his own body (personally so) and the other almost appears as his trying to hit a home run (more or less) through a less direct means (or through his wife) who is also his flesh and bone.

There seems to be lots of little gems in this one. I still glean more and more from the story of Job 25 years later as I continue to read it.

On another note, scripture says tribulation "worketh" patience, and even so we are told to behold "the patience of" Job even as the trying of our faith worketh patience. Just like being sifted (as shown in Peter) is by Satan but Jesus prayed for "his faith" that Peters faith would fail not, as he is kept by the power of God (Jesus Christ).

So we are not lacking

But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

God bless you

Rick Otto · Oct 17, 2014

I think she was just exasperated.
She didn't realy mean it, it was like,...
'why can't you be like everybody else and cave in?'

brinny · Oct 17, 2014

Rick Otto said:
I think she was just exasperated.
She didn't realy mean it, it was like,...
'why can't you be like everybody else and cave in?'

Thank you kindly for sharing your take on it. Always interestin' to read what yu gots ta says brother.

brinny · Nov 5, 2014

In the book of Job, chapter 35, verse 2, Elihu gives a clue as to who is using him. And it isn't God who prompted him to say this:

"Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?" ~Job 35:2

Elihu lied.

AnticipateHisComing · Nov 5, 2014

brinny said:
In light of what God said, was there anything that indicates that God was "teaching" Job something or "chastising" him for something by allowing all that occurred to happen to Job?

Thank you kindly.

I think it would be helpful to step back from Job and look at what all of scripture teaches of "testing". Testing is to examine our hearts and minds that we may be refined spiritually. Obviously God used a strong arm to make a change in Job.

Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

brinny · Nov 5, 2014

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
In light of what God said, was there anything that indicates that God was "teaching" Job something or "chastising" him for something by allowing all that occurred to happen to Job?

Thank you kindly.

AnticipateHisComing said:
I think it would be helpful to step back from Job and look at what all of scripture teaches of "testing". Testing is to examine our hearts and minds that we may be refined spiritually. Obviously God used a strong arm to make a change in Job.

Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

God already knew Job's heart and mind, according to what God Himself says about Job in the beginning of the book of Job and God reiterates it again throughout the book of Job.

Was God dis-pleased with Job? Is that why these set of circumstances began?

Thank you kindly.

Fireinfolding · Nov 5, 2014

The LORD (and Job) indicate this move against him (which come by permission granted to Satan to do so) is "without cause"

Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.

com7fy8 · Nov 5, 2014

I think it is clear it says Job was blameless. I would think he loved his wife, and he cared enough about his children, to make sacrifices in case any of them had cursed. So, he was ready to be forgiving, if he was so caring, I would say. He also would dearly care for his wife; so perhaps he was hurt that she could be broken so . . . maybe surprised that she was so down while he who was suffering was not down. He was disappointed, then, I would say, but did want her, even so.

And God had him pray for the friends - - because, I consider, God knew Job was about forgiving, and so God used him for this. Forgiveness was his way; so the time of opportunity to forgive did come. This is how things work with God > if He knows we really desire what is good, He makes a way.

We see how Jesus on the cross prayed, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." (in Luke 23:34) Jesus did not allow suffering to decide how He was and what He did, and He did not let Satanic people decide if He forgave or not.

That's what mattered; like Jesus, Job did not let the horrible stuff and wrong friends and wife have the power to decide how he was and how he did things and how he saw things.

However > it looks like Job tried to justify himself . . . to defend himself. So, maybe this shows that he was blameless but not totally perfect. So, he maybe needed to be tested to expose his imperfection. After all, he does say he repents, when he sees the LORD. In comparison with the LORD . . . he was not so blameless.

Instead of us looking down on others who are wrong . . . we "might" be busier with considering how we are in comparison with Jesus!! "For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)

But God had His good working, all along. So, it is wise not to look at the wrong stuff and what worldly people are doing, but always know our good God is doing such good. It is like how we humans know better than to keep track of what ants are doing

A question about Job.

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