A message from Adam to all of humanity as given to Pastor Rick Joyner!

[DennisTate]

Sounds nice, although it really doesn't address what I noted in regards to Rick Joyner/some of the concerns others have had. And fasting/ascetic practices are not something that others are against not was that in question. Additionally, one can be as enthusiastic as possible and yet it means nothing if the Word of God does not support what goes down. Plenty of places that had the Joy of the Lord and yet they noted that dancing/praise and worship mean nothing when one isn't walking according to the scriptures...

But all that aside, again, what was noted in the post wasn't really what I was speaking of in regards to Joyner.

In a way it does address your questions because I can assure you that my wife has all kinds of flaws in spite of her amazing gifts!

When one of G-d's people is given what might even be termed a mantle or an anointing it seems that fallen angels move in on them in a way that is not done for somebody who hides their talents and thus is no threat to the enemy!

 

[Gxg (G²)]

In a way it does address your questions because I can assure you that my wife has all kinds of flaws in spite of her amazing gifts!!

No one denied that others can have gifts in spite of flaws. The issue was whether having a gift means that they should be supported in all things, just as there are many amazing speakers/teachers and yet in sin...by no means meaning that they should be given a free pass at all costs. For that's not in line with the Word---and in many cases, it can be damaging when the Lord made clear that ANYONE not supporting what Christ said is not to be supported.


THe following verses are some of the ones that are often brought up when it comes to false teachings and things of that nature.

Galatians 1:8
Romans 16:17-18
2 Thes 3:14
2 John 9-10
1 Peter 2:1, 2
Gal 2:14
Titus 1:9
2 Tim 2:24, 25

There're others of course...but the list isn't exhaustive. In the epistle to Titus, there were false teachers there which were doing much damage and Titus was told to rebuke them sharply:

Titus 1

However, in the fellowship where Timoty was stationed, there were false teachers there as well…and yet Timothy was given instructions on how to deal with the situation as well

II Timothy 2

Again, both fellowships were involving false teachers…..and my question is—in light of the popular statment that all false teachers/those holding to their teachings were always severely denounced, why does there seem to be a distinction if false teachers are always supposed to be labeled ONE WAY ONLY (i.e. with sharp words, harsh terminology, etc)? What to make of the situation where Timothy was told to GENTLY instruct those opponents who opposed him? Could it be possible that not all error or behavior is in the same category and that differing levels of error warrant differing levels of rebuke/action?

If teaching something false is what makes someone a false teacher, then what of the times when we were teaching something that we genuinely believed to be the truth of God’s Word and were sincerly doing so to please the Lord, but later came to realize that what we were teaching wasn’t really what a paticular text meant? Or that the application of what we were teaching was flawed?

Were we false teachers then when we had less understanding on an issue?

My understanding is that the FALSE TEACHERS IN CRETE were of a ENTIRELY DIFFERENT CATEGORY than those in TIMOTHY'S AREA and thus subject to a whole different set of rules because the degree of ERROR was not in the same level.

With the teachers in CRETE, they had a BAD REPUTATION EVEN AMONG UNSAVED FOLKS!!!!

Thus, when it comes to teaching, I'm not of the thought that all errors are on the same level nor all should be treated the same. Growing up in the Charismatic movement and having books by others in the Apostolic/Prophetic movement such as Rick Joyner, I appreciate many of the things he has noted.....but by no means am I going to jump/approve of WHATEVER he notes simply because "Rick says so." And neither am I going to demonize the man and assume everything he does is an issue. There was an article I wrote once on the issue that may help explain more of where I'm coming from, called The ART OF CHRISTIAN DIALOUGE: Whatever happened to it? (regarding heresy, false teachings, and understanding the Word of God IN CONTEXT) ....

When one of G-d's people is given what might even be termed a mantle or an anointing it seems that fallen angels move in on them in a way that is not done for somebody who hides their talents and thus is no threat to the enemy

Being attacked by the enemy is not always due to using a gift publically--and just because a gift is publicly used/damage done with it (especially when warnings were given and there was no heed given) doesn't mean that it's automatically the enemy. There are some who people assume have a gifting simply because they have a platform, but that again doesn't line up with the Bible. Even teachers may be decieved, even if they may be sincere...and to be clear, there are levels of false teaching that can be present.

As Brother John Piper said best:

G

Watch Out for Those Who Lead You Away from the Truth
Listen / http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceL...rom_the_Truth/

Romans 16:17-20
​

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. Such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, but I want you to be wise as to what is good and innocent as to what is evil. The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you
​

With regard to the command to “watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught,” it is possible to go overboard on this. I hesitate even to say it, since I don’t think this is the temptation of most churches or most Christians today. But it is possible, and there are churches and people that do go overboard.


​

What I mean is that they become so obsessed with spotting doctrinal error that they lose their ability to rejoice in doctrinal truth. They’re like dogs that are trained so completely to sniff out drugs at the airport, that even when they’re off duty they greet everybody that way. It doesn’t make for a very welcoming atmosphere.

The book of Romans does not make this mistake. Periodically Paul warns against doctrinal or ethical error. But most of Romans is a glorious display of the work of Christ for us and in us. So let’s ask the Lord to help us get the balance right here. We must do this: “Watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught.” But this is not the main thing we do. Vigilance over error is necessary, but joy in the truth is dominant.

 

[DennisTate]

Please, don't even put King Davids name in the same sentence as TB.

.......

]

Lulav, do you have any grandchildren yet that you are so angry at that you would not want their name used in the same sentence as your own?


King David has an astonishing number of grandchildren....the scholarship of Yair Davidiy is very difficult to dispute, in my opinion anyway!

Actually go to Moshiach.com and do a search for Ecuador and you will run into a powerful article asserting that descendants of Reuben and Levi went to South America during the time of King Solomon. I am not saying that they are descendants of King David...just that the lost tribes migrated much further than we would tend to imagine at first!

 

[GuardianShua]

Have you guys been drinking to much coffee?

 

[DennisTate]

........
Being attacked by the enemy is not always due to using a gift publically--and just because a gift is publicly used/damage done with it (especially when warnings were given and there was no heed given) doesn't mean that it's automatically the enemy. There are some who people assume have a gifting simply because they have a platform, but that again doesn't line up with the Bible. Even teachers may be decieved, even if they may be sincere...and to be clear, there are levels of false teaching that can be present.

A couple of months ago I read some of my own writings online from five or more years ago. I shook my head at the ignorance that I had merely five years ago in virtually every subject that I got into.

Five years from today I hope that I will be able to see serious flaws in what I am writing at this moment!

 

[DennisTate]

Have you guys been drinking to much coffee?

Spider cookies in my case!

Good point though...it is 11:17pm here so I really should crash!

This has been awesome....Thank you!!!!!!!

 

[GuardianShua]

Spider cookies in my case!

Good point though...it is 11:17pm here so I really should crash!

This has been awesome....Thank you!!!!!!!

Spider cookies have caffeine and sugar. That explains everything.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

A couple of months ago I read some of my own writings online from five or more years ago. I shook my head at the ignorance that I had merely five years ago in virtually every subject that I got into.

Five years from today I hope that I will be able to see serious flaws in what I am writing at this moment!

Everyone is in a season of growth and development...evolution, if you will. And the things people fall on their sword for in previous times may be things they're against in the future. There's the reality of how the Lord works with all people at differing levels---and as the old saying goes, "God doesn't condemn us for what we are...but for what we refuse to become."


All are in need of grace, even as others realize the need to have discernment and know that just because all need grace doesn't mean all must approve of what another may or may not do. Be that with Rick Joyner, or with Todd Bently. Having friends/family who supported Bently on many points and also went to the revival, the issue hits home for me since I was one of the people that wasn't about trying to demonzie the man...nor was I one concerned with accepting any/everything done in the name of the Lord. I know personally I was cautious with the entire ordeal since I had friends/family that got involved with it....and I didn't agree with it even though I was for getting the facts/not blasting everything. For more, one can go here, here, here, here , here, here, here, here, etc). On my own blog, I tried to keep up with the issue often (As seen here, here, here and here ). Others have also spoken on it, as seen here. Ultimately, what Bently did was wrong and he needed to sit down.---despite anything where he did walk right (Just as others throughout history have, from Luther to Calvin to Owens to Edwards to many of the Church Fathers and various others the Lord worked through regardless of their grave mistakes)---and I wish the man had never chosen to go back into ministry, nor others commisssion him such as the NAR leaders did (including Rick Joyner) after his discussions on Emma the Angel/Other wild things. And the affair was simply a sympton of a LARGER issue that needed to be addressed.

God will deal individually with others as he wishes...
On a side note, I noticed elsewhere you brought up the following:

I personally strongly suspect that God of Abraham/The Creator is also the first intelligent life form composed of truly fundamental energy.


I am wide open to the possibility that the Creator has planned and choreographed a nearly infinite number of Big Bang events over essentially infinite time in the past...actually time itself was invented at the same time as space....time and space actually depend on each other for their existence.


A being composed of truly fundamental energy would be dependent on neither time or space for existence!

Would you mind explaining what you meant? FOr it seems like you're advocating that the Lord is a created being---and I wasn't certain if that is what you were about.

 

[Lulav]

I heard Todd Bentley's sermon "Dark Night of the Soul" and considered it to be one of the deepest, most powerful messages that I had personally ever heard.

This is not the power of any G-d I worship. Chasing people around and slamming them in the head and on the ground, Yeshua, and not other healer is recorder in the bible of doing such a thing.

#2- AN INSIDER'S WARNING - FLORIDA REVIVAL - True or False Outpouring? - YouTube

 

[Lulav]

Lulav, do you have any grandchildren yet that you are so angry at that you would not want their name used in the same sentence as your own?


King David has an astonishing number of grandchildren....the scholarship of Yair Davidiy is very difficult to dispute, in my opinion anyway!

Actually go to Moshiach.com and do a search for Ecuador and you will run into a powerful article asserting that descendants of Reuben and Levi went to South America during the time of King Solomon. I am not saying that they are descendants of King David...just that the lost tribes migrated much further than we would tend to imagine at first!

What has that got to do with Todd Bentley? Or my Grandchildren, which number 11 to date.

 

[Lulav]

Spider cookies in my case!

Good point though...it is 11:17pm here so I really should crash!

This has been awesome....Thank you!!!!!!!

So are you out on a boat in the middle of the Atlantic?

 

[Lulav]

A couple of months ago I read some of my own writings online from five or more years ago. I shook my head at the ignorance that I had merely five years ago in virtually every subject that I got into.

Five years from today I hope that I will be able to see serious flaws in what I am writing at this moment!

Funny thing, I went to search for posts I made way back on Todd and find that what I said back then as I was lead, I still stick by today.

Here's just one of the many threads I participated on regarding TB

For those who may be drawn in by TB and others like him, read this made by an anonymous poster in regard to the 'Lakeland Fire'

I went to Lakeland 3 times. I was so drawn to go there. I really
thought it was of God… I had so many supernatural experiences -
to seeing a mystical Jesus with a third eye, angels talking to me,
visions, being transported. I had one experience with my daughter
being in the room and her experiencing it too. I was roaring like a
lion, had gold dust and many other experiences. The worst thing
that happened to me is that it got sexual. This false Jesus was
approaching me sexually and I fell into it. I still to this day do
not understand how I could have been so decieved. I have been
a Christian since the age of 16. I am 49 now… I fell right in… hook,
line and sinker. When I came home that last viist I became aware
it was demonic, and I was surrounded and covered with demons
literally, it was so horrible, all that I went through, you cannot
imagine… I was seeing demons and being touched sexually and
tormentingly constantly.. it has been 1 1/2 years and I am still
battling these demonic spirits. I cry out to the Lord everyday for
total deliverance. It has been horrible. I have renounced and
repented, but still fighting. How do we get free of this?

''

I knew this was not of G-d the minute I heard about it. Videos and live reports only confirmed what was in my Spirit. I fought tooth and nail with some in my congregation that went there and came back demon possessed. This is not of G-d, but allowed by him to test those who truly belong to him.

 

[James Clarkston]

Adam is dead, we are told not to seek to talk to the spirits

Here, here...

Adam is dead in the sense that his soul has been separated from this physical world, and it does seem suspect that Adam would appear to someone like this...seems like God would use an Angel as the messenger, or Jesus, or just have the Holy Ghost tell him.

Ya better test the spirits on this one to see if this agrees with scripture.







Disclaimer: This was just a friendly reply... it is not intended to teach or convert anyone
to anything, as this is just what I'd do based on my viewpoint so please don't turn me in!

 

[James Clarkston]

I knew this was not of G-d the minute I heard about it. Videos and live reports only confirmed what was in my Spirit. I fought tooth and nail with some in my congregation that went there and came back demon possessed. This is not of G-d, but allowed by him to test those who truly belong to him.

How do you know it wasn't the devil bringing an attack to get you to back away from God trying to bring revival? Jesus spoke of the enemy trying to take the word that was sown in Mark 4:14-20.

Just because you experienced demonic attacks doesn't necessarily mean it's not of God. The devil always makes a play to keep people away from God moving and what better way to do that that to show you some demonic stuff to scare you off???

There are many, many other people who got delivered from demonic stuff they had before they ever went.

The people are going to decide when G-d shows his mercy? Please show me anywhere in the word that G-d has given this power over to people, other than Yeshua.

Well, God did give Israel a king... when God did not want them to have a king.





Disclaimer: This was just a friendly reply... it is not intended to teach or convert anyone
to anything, as this is just what I'd do based on my viewpoint so please don't turn me in!

 

[Lulav]

How do you know it wasn't the devil bringing an attack to get you to back away from God trying to bring revival? Jesus spoke of the enemy trying to take the word that was sown in Mark 4:14-20.

Just because you experienced demonic attacks doesn't necessarily mean it's not of God. The devil always makes a play to keep people away from God moving and what better way to do that that to show you some demonic stuff to scare you off???

There are many, many other people who got delivered from demonic stuff they had before they ever went.





Well, God did give Israel a king... when God did not want them to have a king.





Disclaimer: This was just a friendly reply... it is not intended to teach or convert anyone
to anything, as this is just what I'd do based on my viewpoint so please don't turn me in!

actually now you are debating, so word to the wise.

To answer your question though, you misunderstood what I said. I did not say I experienced demonic attacks, rather I heard from those who went there and could tell from that.

That wasn't my G-d moving down in Lakeland, but he did say he would sent those to test us.

 

[Lulav]

Well, God did give Israel a king... when God did not want them to have a king.

Disclaimer: This was just a friendly reply... it is not intended to teach or convert anyone
to anything, as this is just what I'd do based on my viewpoint so please don't turn me in!

That is because He is the King, but they wanted a visible one. That does not mean he gave power to him over his wrath.

 

[James Clarkston]

actually now you are debating, so word to the wise.

Sorry, I guess anytime someone does not like a question that is asked, it is considered debating? I suppose I need to stay off your board since I'm obviously just ticking people off for not being friendly enough or whatever.

Anybody know which board is for "Christians" as in those that are born-again by being washed in the Blood of Jesus who walk after the Holy Ghost and not after the flesh?

Apparrently, I need to find the board for "Christians" so it will match my icon. Thanks.









Disclaimer: This was just a friendly reply... it is not intended to teach or convert anyone
to anything, as this is just what I'd do based on my viewpoint so please don't turn me in!

 

[Lulav]

Sorry, I guess anytime someone does not like a question that is asked, it is considered debating? I suppose I need to stay off your board since I'm obviously just ticking people off for not being friendly enough or whatever.

Anybody know which board is for "Christians" as in those that are born-again by being washed in the Blood of Jesus who walk after the Holy Ghost and not after the flesh?

Apparrently, I need to find the board for "Christians" so it will match my icon. Thanks.
Disclaimer: This was just a friendly reply... it is not intended to teach or convert anyone
to anything, as this is just what I'd do based on my viewpoint so please don't turn me in!

James, I answered your question. I know you are new so don't know what has been happening here for the past month, but right now there are a lot of problems with people coming in to debate and some one (not me) will eventually report you, now more than ever. I just wanted to give you fair warning, not trying to chase you off at all.

 

[aniello]

Sorry, I guess anytime someone does not like a question that is asked, it is considered debating? I suppose I need to stay off your board since I'm obviously just ticking people off for not being friendly enough or whatever.

Anybody know which board is for "Christians" as in those that are born-again by being washed in the Blood of Jesus who walk after the Holy Ghost and not after the flesh?

Apparrently, I need to find the board for "Christians" so it will match my icon. Thanks.









Disclaimer: This was just a friendly reply... it is not intended to teach or convert anyone
to anything, as this is just what I'd do based on my viewpoint so please don't turn me in!

Kind of a wholesale indictment of us, ain't it James?

We need a clubbing, bashing, flaming now and then don't we.

Lucky you came to do it.

We forgive.

Peace, hope you find it.

 

[DennisTate]

So are you out on a boat in the middle of the Atlantic?

Pretty close!

I live in Nova Scotia, Canada near Sherbrooke Historic Village!