A look at the 144,000

[MidnightCry]

I thought it would be interesting to look at who the 144,000 are that are written about in Revelation.

If anyone has an opinion regarding who they are and why they are important to us, at this time in history, please post your opinion and provide scripture to support it.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[MidnightCry]

OK. I'll start.

What does the Bible tell us about the 144,000?

Rev. 7:3-4

... "Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads." And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed."

Shortly before God's wrath is released, Jesus will select 12,000 people from each of the twelve tribes of Israel. The "Israel" of God today is not a biological Israel. According to the New Covenant, the Israel of God consists of people who love Him with all their heart, mind, soul, and their neighbor as themselves. God redefined Abraham's heirs, a new Israel of God, at the cross. The Bible indicates that God will select 12,000 from each tribe to be part of the 144,000. This means that each tribe is larger than 12,000 people. God will only use a portion of each tribe.

Jesus said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind." This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 22:37-40)

And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Galatians 3:29)

See Revelation 7:5-8 for a listing of the tribes of the children of Israel.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[MidnightCry]

Rev. 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed.

This verse tells us that 144,000 people were selected, sealed, and empowered by the Holy Spirit.

There are no symbolic numbers in apocalyptic prophecy. A symbol requires a relevant text to define the symbol. The math in Revelation 7 is literal and straightforward--12,000 people are taken from twelve tribes and the total equals 144,000 people. The 144,000 (a definite number of people) are not to be confused with the numberless multitude (an indefinite number of people.)

The 144,000 are called firstfruits because they will be sealed first.

....These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God. (Rev. 14:4)

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[rainbowinthesky]

I urge you to read the thread A Peg In A sure Place.

sky

 

[MidnightCry]

I urge you to read the thread A Peg In A sure Place.

sky

sky,

I looked at it. I could just read Ellen White.

You have posted the Millerite and EGW conclusions on prophecy.

I urge you to take off your Ellen glasses, open your Bible, and let the Word of God speak for itself.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[rainbowinthesky]

I dont look at her writings as figments of her imagination but as the Testimony of Jesus, hence a divine commemtary upon the Bible. To me the testimony of Jesus is more than the Bible, it is the Bible explained by its Author.

If we claim to be Seventh-day Adventists and this has not yet dawned upon our minds, we need to sink the shaft deeper into the mine of truth and be taught at the school of Christ.

The Testimony of Jesus is little appreciated let alone understood.

sky

 

[rainbowinthesky]

"Israel" of God today is not a biological Israel. According to the New Covenant, the Israel of God consists of people who love Him with all their heart, mind, soul, and their neighbor as themselves. God redefined Abraham's heirs, a new Israel of God, at the cross. The Bible indicates that God will select 12,000 from each tribe to be part of the 144,000. This means that each tribe is larger than 12,000 people. God will only use a portion of each tribe."

MidnightCry
__________



So if the Israel of God in Revelation 7 is not a biological Israel (and I agree) then the 12 names of these tribes as mentioned in Revelation 7 can only be symbolic names of the true Israel of God and that can only mean that the number 12,000 is a symbolic number and therefore so is the number 144,000.

Those who successfully pass the great final test will receive the final seal and become the 144,000 who are to go through the time of Jacob's trouble and be translated without seeing death.

This should not be too difficult to see.

None but those who pass the great final test can become members of this illustrious company of people.

sky

 

[OntheDL]

I agree with rainbowinthesky so far.

We find 12 stones on the breastplate of the high priest. 1 stone for each tribe. When Moses dedicated them at the foot of Mt Sinai, they were uncut. When they were adorn on the high priest's breastplate, they were polished and reflected the precious light.

Each stone represented each son of Israel. All had character flaws. Some were liers, some were murders, some committed incest. Yet the Master Artisan was able to transform them that the same 12 stones are found at the foundations of the walls of the new Jerusalem.

This speaks character transformation. The 144000 are a cross-section of humanity. No matter the personal background or the character traits, with the transforming grace, all can be a part of the new city.

Furthermore, 'first' in this case refers to primacy, not chronology. The firstfruits means the best of fruits, because the 144000 reproduce Christ's character in fullness. They are the 'best' of all the redeemed. They are the ones that come out of the great tribulation. That means no one else will be sealed and saved after the sealing of the 144000. The sealing of the 14000 signals the close of probation. The 144000 are the last generation of the redeemed who will be alive when Christ returns.

The 144000 have nothing to do with the physical tribes of Israel. No scriptures support this false interpretation that came from the Futurism.

 

[Stryder06]

Rev. 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed.

This verse tells us that 144,000 people were selected, sealed, and empowered by the Holy Spirit.

There are no symbolic numbers in apocalyptic prophecy. A symbol requires a relevant text to define the symbol. The math in Revelation 7 is literal and straightforward--12,000 people are taken from twelve tribes and the total equals 144,000 people. The 144,000 (a definite number of people) are not to be confused with the numberless multitude (an indefinite number of people.)

The 144,000 are called firstfruits because they will be sealed first.

....These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God. (Rev. 14:4)

YSIC,
MidnightCry

I may be among a minority who believes this, but I doubt anyone is a "true born" son of Israel now a days. Second, Israel is no longer literal so it is highly unlikely that this is referring to literal Israel. Third, numbers in prophecy are highly symbolic more so than not.

 

[MidnightCry]

"Israel" of God today is not a biological Israel. According to the New Covenant, the Israel of God consists of people who love Him with all their heart, mind, soul, and their neighbor as themselves. God redefined Abraham's heirs, a new Israel of God, at the cross. The Bible indicates that God will select 12,000 from each tribe to be part of the 144,000. This means that each tribe is larger than 12,000 people. God will only use a portion of each tribe."

MidnightCry
__________



So if the Israel of God in Revelation 7 is not a biological Israel (and I agree) then the 12 names of these tribes as mentioned in Revelation 7 can only be symbolic names of the true Israel of God and that can only mean that the number 12,000 is a symbolic number and therefore so is the number 144,000.

Those who successfully pass the great final test will receive the final seal and become the 144,000 who are to go through the time of Jacob's trouble and be translated without seeing death.

This should not be too difficult to see.

None but those who pass the great final test can become members of this illustrious company of people.

sky

A number in apocalyptic prophecy cannot be symbolic; a symbol requires a relevant text to define the symbol. You cannot decide what is symbolic and what is not.

The 144,000 are described as belonging to the twelve tribes of Israel because believers in Christ are counted as the heirs of the promise given to Abraham. Like Abraham, the 144,000 know how to live by faith. The 144,000 will also demonstrate the gift of sanctification that comes through faith. Jesus wants the world to see living examples of what any sinner can become. So, the gospel of Jesus will come with a demonstration as well as a proclamation of God's truth and love.

The 144,000 come from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. Are we talking about a literal or physical Israel? Obviously, not. We know that a true remnant of Israel remains, that is, true Israel belongs to Christ. Paul wrote, "If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise," (Galatians 3:29) This is why Paul says, "For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him." (Romans 10:12) And also, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28)

What is the "Christian" significance of the 12 tribes? As each of Jacob's 12 sons were different and unique, each of the 12 tribes represents a unique character and experience in knowing, loving and serving God. See Genesis 49. Jesus has apparently created 12 varieties of people and He appreciates the unique make-up of each type of person. We can say that upon receiving Jesus as our personal Savior, we are joined to one of the 12 tribes of Israel by our personality type and experience in the Lord.

Before the people of God enter the heavenly Promised Land, God assures the saints that 12,000 from each tribe will be selected as firstfruits or choice specimens. This means that each of the 12 groups of people will have 12,000 glorious representatives.

When the Israel of God is redeemed at the second coming, it will be a numberless multitude! (Rev. 7:9) The number of people that make up spiritual Israel will be like the sands of the sea. But the people who gather the great multitude together during the time-period of the trumpets will be the 144,000.

Who constitutes the true Israel that shall be saved? Paul tells us, A man is a Jew if he is one inwardly...For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." (Romans 2:29,13)


I wasn't aware that firstfruits are not necessary offered first as a sacrifice,
OntheDL, can you show me where is scripture you find they are offered at a later time?


YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[MidnightCry]

How do we know the 144,000 are selected and sealed first by Christ? What does the Bible tell us?

The 144,000 are selected and sealed prior to the sounding of the seven trumpets and the opening of the fourth seal.

After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying, "Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads." And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and fourth-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed: (Rev. 7:1-4)

The four winds that are held back until the 144,000 are ready are the four terrible judgments contained in the fourth seal; sword, famine, plague and wild beasts. In other words, Jesus delays the opening of the fourth seal until the development and selection of the 144,000 is completed. Then the angels having the seven trumpets begin their work.

I like to think of the 144,000 as firstfruits. We can look at the Feast of Firstfruits for more understanding. Israel's Feast of Firstfruits was an ancient holy day solely devoted to first things.

Firstfruits marked the beginning of the cereal grain harvests in Israel. Barley was the first grain to ripen of those sown in the winter months. For Firstfruits, a sheaf of barley was harvested and brought to the Temple as a thanksgiving offering to the Lord for the harvest. It was representative of the barley harvest as a whole and served as a pledge or guarantee that the remainder of the harvest would be realized in the days that followed.


The people were forbidden to use any part of the harvest in any way until after the firstfruits were offered to the Lord (Lev. 23:14). To neglect these firstfruit offerings (or any others) was considered robbery of God according to Scripture (Mal. 3:8) Firstfruits was preeminently seen as a time marker. It marked the beginning of the grain harvest in Israel.

Of course, the resurrection of Jesus is the guarantee and the beginning (firstfruits) of the final harvest, or resurrection, of all mankind. But it is easy to see the parallel that the 144,000 will be the firstfruits of the redeemed at the end of time.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[E.T.Elijah]

I've always found this to be a pretty decent explanation of the names of the tribes used in Revelation to depict the 144,000.

"So why did God go to the trouble of specifically naming the 12 tribes when listing the 144,000 This is one of the first and most compelling clues that there must be some hidden spiritual meaning to the tribes listed in Revelation 7. Remember, this is the only time the sons of Jacob are arranged in this orderand even more specifically, the way in which they are ordered says something too. First, Joseph and Levi are included, while Ephraim and Dan are left out. Why Well perhaps it is because the names are symbolic in meaning and prophecies state: Dan shall be a serpent by the way, A viper by the path (Genesis 49:17). It may also be because the name Dan means judge, and the 144,000 are a special group who are sealed and vindi-
cated at this point. As far as Ephraim, the Bible declares, Ephraim is joined to idols, Let him alone (Hosea 4:17). And curiously, Ruben, the firstborn, is listed as second, while Judah, the fourth offspring, is listed as the first!

So the order of these names makes no sense unless we allow the names to speak for themselves; then, perhaps, we will see God is trying to communicate a special message to us through these names.
When Jews named their babies, the names nearly always had some definite meaning that depicted some characteristic of the child or event connected with their birth. Notice how the wives of Jacob, Rachael, and Leah proclaimed a statement defining the meaning of the sons names as they were born. In Genesis 29:32-35, we read, So Leah conceived and bore a son, and she called his name Reuben; for she said, The LORD has surely looked on my affliction. Now therefore, my husband will love me. Then she conceived again and bore a son, and said, Because the LORD has heard that I am unloved, He has therefore given me this son also. And she called his name Simeon. She
conceived again and bore a son, and said, Now this time my husband will become attached to me, because I have borne him three sons. Therefore his name was called Levi. And she conceived again and bore a son, and said, Now I will praise the LORD. Therefore she called his name Judah. As you continue reading the narrative of each of the births of Jacobs sons, Rachel and Leah made similar prophetic statements for all 12 of the sons regarding the meanings of their names.
Here are the names of the tribes listed for the 144,000, in the order in which Revelation 7 lists them, and their corresponding Hebrew meanings as found in Scripture:

1.Judah meansI will praise the Lord2.Ruben meansHe has looked on me3.Gad meansGiven good fortune
4.Asher meansHappy am I
5.Naphtali meansMy wrestling
6.Manasseh meansMaking me to forget
7.Simeon meansGod hears me
8.Levi meansJoined to me
9.Issachar meansPurchased Me
10.Zebulun meansDwelling
11.Joseph meansWill add to me
12.Benjamin meansSon of His right hand
Now here is the amazing part. Notice what happens when you line up these meanings of the names according to the way they appear as listed in Revelation. It forms a very remarkable statement declaring how God saves the church as His bride!
I will praise the Lord for he has looked on me and granted good fortune. I am happy because my wrestling, God is making me to forget. God hears me and is joined to me. He has purchased me a dwelling and will add to me, the Son of His right hand. (As in Scripture, the words in italics are supplied for flow of thought.) These names presented in this order describe a brief story summarizing the churchs struggle, redemption, victory, and ultimate marriage to the Lamb. It seems evident that this is a special message of encouragement for those who are in the Church, believers in Christ, and not necessarily just Jews."

 

[OntheDL]

I wasn't aware that firstfruits are not necessary offered first as a sacrifice,
OntheDL, can you show me where is scripture you find they are offered at a later time?

YSIC,
MidnightCry

The firstfruits are presentation of the barley harvest: wave sheaf. Not animal sacrifices.

I'm not following the logic of your question.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Originally Posted by MidnightCry
I wasn't aware that firstfruits are not necessary offered first as a sacrifice,
OntheDL, can you show me where is scripture you find they are offered at a later time?

YSIC,
MidnightCry


The real meaning of the word "first fruit" is a spiritual one which has no connection with a point of time whatsoever. This truth is made very plain indeed in the Scriptures as we shall proceed to see. We are to keep in mind that the Bible has its own language and is its own interpreter of that language. When the Bible uses the word "first fruits," it is seeking to give us a certain message through that symbolism. There is a very real danger that the reader will fail to comprehend the intended message, so, to leave us with no excuse, the word is used elsewhere within a context which leaves no doubt whatsoever as to what the word is intended to mean. In this way the Bible is its own interpreter. The important thing is to understand that once we have found what the Bible means when it uses a certain word, that the meaning and use is consistent throughout the inspired word. That is to say, the meaning of "first fruits" cannot be one thing in one place and then something else in another.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

There is a truly plain and clear-cut example, the fact that Jesus Christ is stated to be the "first fruits" of those who had died and needed to be resurrected to eternal life. There are three Scriptures in particular which speak of this. The first we shall quote from 1 Cor.15:20:

"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept."

The other two read thus: "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithfull witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth." Revelation 1:5;

"And He is the Head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the first born from the dead; that in all things He might have pre-eminence." Col.1:18.

A moment's reflection will show at once that the Bible does not intend that we understand that His being the first fruits, the first born, or the first begotten from the dead, to mean that that He was the first One to be raised, and that after His resurrection all the rest follow, for He was by no means the first to be raised from the dead, so far as first in point of time is concerned.

Before He came forth from the dusty tomb there were seven others who had raised before Him. Moses was the first in point of time, so that if time was a factor, then Moses and not Christ should have been designated as the first fruits of them that slept. After Moses, the others in their order are as follows:

The son of the widow of Zarephath, as raised through the prayer and faith of Elijah. 1 kings 17:17-24.

The Shunemite's son of Elisha's day. 2 Kings 4:34-37.

Jairus' daughter, Mark 5:23-43.

The widow of Nain's son, Luke 7:11-18;

and Lazarus, John 11:1-46.

Yet, despite the fact that Jesus was actually the eighth to be raised from the dead, He is designated as being the first fruits of them that slept, the first begotten of the dead, and the first born from the dead. This does not mean that we have a contradiction except between what the Bible is actually saying and what we think of the word "first fruits" as meaning.

to be continued

 

[rainbowinthesky]

The 144,000 cannot be the first fruits because of any precedence in point of time but because through them Christ will accomplish a work without the successful accomplishment of which there can never be a harvest of the rest (general resurrection).

To understand this we need to be clear on the legal issues at stake in the great controversy itself, so that we shall comprehend what the devil is seeking to accomplish and what the Lord must accomplish before the closing of the great controversy.

That there is something very much at stake in the matter of the perfection of the 144,000 while still living, and that upon that work hinges the fate of all the righteous in all ages, as well as the security and the prosperity of the universe, is made clear from the following statement.

"Satan numbers the world as his subjects, he has gained control of the apostate churches; but here is a little company that are resisting his supremacy. If he could blot them out from the earth, his triumph would be complete." 5 T 472-473.

The context shows that it is speaking of that time when the devil has gained control of the whole world, and only a tiny remnant remain in defiance of his determination to rule the world and break the plan of salvation. The setting is the closing scenes of the great day of atonement when only the 144,000 are left alive of all who are the faithful of God.

The only hope he has of being able to blot them out from the earth is to break their faith in the saving power of God and thus lead them into sin at a time when the sanctuary service is closed and the ministry for sin is ended. If he could do this, then he could and would destroy them out of existence and if he could do that then his triumph would be complete. In other words he would be the victor in the great controversy of the ages. he would have proved his point and thus would have proved God to be the liar in the situation.

to be continued

 

[MidnightCry]

The firstfruits are presentation of the barley harvest: wave sheaf. Not animal sacrifices.

I'm not following the logic of your question.

OntheDL,

Sorry, I was not very clear. Sorry for not betting back to you sooner. I had to move my daughter to her dorm at the Adventist Academy. I will miss her. She is a junior this year.

When I think of firstfruits, I tend to think of the first and best offering that is presented to God. You are correct. The term "first fruits" does not refer to the fruit presented first. Rather, it refers to the best or "choice" fruits of the harvest.

Having said that, what does this verse mean to you:

"....and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God." (Rev. 14:3-5)

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[rainbowinthesky]

If ever we are to have a clear and accurate understanding of who the "144,000" will be in relation to "the great multitude," we must understand the sealing work of the people of God. Not that this is a very difficult subject to understand though one would think so when we consider the widely divergent concepts of the order of last day events.

No sooner do we begin a serious and careful study of this topic than we become aware of the fact that there are two distinct and separate seals. They are totally different from each other and must not be confused with each other. Each has its place and role in the plan of God and none among the living can become members of the 144,000 unless they have the both of them.

We observe too that the Bible does not say that there are two seals any more than it says that there are two comings of Christ, or two shakings, or two brides, or any of the two things which in Scripture are different and yet called by the same name.

In each case we are left to recognize the fact that there are two and to understand as to which is being spoken of in a certain place.

Let us turn now to some references which clearly speak of a seal which up till this time no person living on the earth at present has received.

"The Lord has shown me clearly that the image of the beast will be formed before probation closes; for it is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided... Rev.13:11-17 quoted... This is the test that the people of God must have before they are sealed." 7 B.C. 976.

This statement makes it very certain that no one can receive the seal spoken of here, until they have passed the test imposed by the setting up of the image of the beast. The test comes first and then the seal of God follows on all those who have passed this fearful test.

Now the image of the beast, as an active effective agency has not yet at this time of writing been set up, and as certain as this is so, the test of the image is not before the people yet. Therefore there is not a soul living on the face of the earth who has passed that test yet and equally surely then, no one living has that seal upon them at this time.

The Great Controversy, p.613, makes it very clear indeed that the great final test must come, and only those who remain loyal in the face of that pressure, will receive the seal of God.

"The final test has been brought upon the world. All who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received the seal of the living God. Then Jesus ceases His intercession in the sanctuary above." Great Controversy, p.613.

There is no difficulty then in seeing that this test and this seal are still very much in the future.

sky

 

[MidnightCry]

If ever we are to have a clear and accurate understanding of who the "144,000" will be in relation to "the great multitude," we must understand the sealing work of the people of God. Not that this is a very difficult subject to understand though one would think so when we consider the widely divergent concepts of the order of last day events.

No sooner do we begin a serious and careful study of this topic than we become aware of the fact that there are two distinct and separate seals. They are totally different from each other and must not be confused with each other. Each has its place and role in the plan of God and none among the living can become members of the 144,000 unless they have the both of them.


sky,

What is the sealing work of the people of God?

What are the "two distinct and separate seals"? What are you referring to?


YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Please keep on reading.

The apostle Paul speaks of a seal which was had by the living in the past.

Let us read of this first in Ephesians 1:12,13.

"That we should be to the praise of His glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise."

Here then were a people to whom he said that they were already sealed with the Holy Spirit. He did not speak of their receiving a seal in the future but as of having received it before this time. Did this mean that they had passed the great final test? No indeed. Yet they were sealed. It is evident that this must be, and indeed was, a different seal from that which is spoken of in the first two statements.

The fact that the present seal is called the seal of the living God just as the final seal is called by the same name is proved still further by this statement from Sons and Daughters of God, p.51.

"The law of God, which is perfect holiness, is the only standard of character. Love is expressed in obedience, and perfect love casteth all fear. Those who love God, have the seal of God in their foreheads, and work the works of God."

Again this seal is not spoken of as something they will have, but of something they already have at the present time!

The first seal is

1. A work which is done in us day by day.

2. It is the work of the Holy Spirit, begun by the former rain and completed by the latter rain.

3. It is a process of settling into the truth both intellectually and spiritually.

4. It prepares for the great final test.

When this sealing work is finished, there is no spot, wrinkle or any such thing left in the individual, and the devil can find nothing in him whatsoever to respond to his temptations. It is very proper and natural to ask then, if the first seal does all of that in me, then what need do I have of a second and final seal? What is there yet that I need, not already provided in this first seal? If the moral image of Jesus is completely formed within, then will I not be fit to enter Heaven?

to be continued