A Letter From An Atheist

[juvenissun]

I was raised an evangelical baptists, I read the bible cover-to-cover, went to church every sunday,went to bible camp and everything. I believed all the way up to my early 20's, but then I really asked myself the tough questions and finally admitted what I had suspected in the back of my head all along, that is it made up.

I remain open to the possibility of a god, but so far no evidence has arisen which compells me to believe. Just as I remain open to the idea that intelligent life exists on an alien world, but until I see proof I don't walk around calling myself an a-alienist, I just hold the default position which is disbelief.

I did not believe any of the Christian stuff until I got my Ph.D. in science.

How about that?

 

[chilehed]

Our relationship with God is a subjective personal relationship.

Which is precisely the reason God's existence is not a scientific fact.Which is precisely the reason God's existence is not a scientific fact...

Interesting observation.

Which means that your relationship with anyone is not a scientific fact. And yet I imagine that you accept that such relationships are real.

Which proves that you don't demand scientific proof for everything you accept as true.

 

[AtheistVet]

Dear Mathclub

I believe in the Big Bang, the age of the Earth and Universe, the evolutionary chain you describe. I also believe in God. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

However, what you've done is give us a nice picture of what an atheist is: somebody who doesn't care about his origins or future. That's perfectly reasonable as you evolved by accident from a bubbling fusion of chemicals eons ago. Why care; you're ultimately pointless.

You could have saved yourself the trouble though and just given us a link to "Atheist" in Wikipedia.

Well, that's not just wrong, but rude.

 

[juvenissun]

And if a professor does not want to teach, the university would be perfectly right to fire them. The students would also be perfectly right to be mightily miffed with them.

Burden of proof. Look it up. No one wants to "prove" there is no God because (1) it is theoretically impossible to do so, (2) it is the null hypothesis.

(If you consider yourself a scientist, "null hypothesis" ought to ring a bell...)

A prof. has to teach, like it or not. But a student does not have to learn. (translation: God loves you, but you may not love God). Student don't learn because he thought the knowledge is not important to him.

I don't need (not want) to convince you by giving you a proof. You "want" (not need) to convince yourself by finding a proof (positive or negative) to yourself.

 

[AtheistVet]

Interesting observation.

Which means that your relationship with anyone is not a scientific fact. And yet I imagine that you accept that such relationships are real.

Which proves that you don't demand scientific proof for everything you accept as true.

Relationships with people can be demonstrated beyond subjective personal anecdotes.

 

[Crusader05]

Interesting observation.

Which means that your relationship with anyone is not a scientific fact. And yet I imagine that you accept that such relationships are real.

Which proves that you don't demand scientific proof for everything you accept as true.

My relationship with my mother can be demonstrated through genetic testing, family photos and eye witness testimony. The difference between that and a relationship with an all power diety is that one is an extraordinary claim, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

 

[AV1611VET]

My relationship with my mother can be demonstrated through genetic testing, family photos and eye witness testimony. The difference between that and a relationship with an all power diety is that one is an extraordinary claim, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

We have that 'extraordinary evidence' -- it is called "faith":

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[mzungu]

The key words here are: "Believe in" and "Accept". One can believe in a God(s) and still accept Evolution. One does not "believe" in a scientific theory but "accepts" a scientific theory.

On the other hand in religions one must "accept" in order to "believe".

There are fundamental differences between science, the physical world and that of the supernatural and faith based world.

What is important is that we first learn to respect each other's beliefs and principles before we pass judgements!

I am an avowed atheist but agree to the Orthodox Church's dogma of: "One will not necessarily go to hell if one does not accept Christ, but by following Christ one will be on a better path to heaven". This means that even if one is not a Christian one may enter heaven if one leads an honest life based on Jesus' principles of love, compassion, forgiveness.

I stopped believing in God when I was around 9 years old! Evolution had nothing to do with it; it was purely a logical conclusion for me!

I do however support the right to worship and the right to religious belief. Free will is no good if one is not allowed to exercise it!

 

[chilehed]

My relationship with my mother can be demonstrated through genetic testing, family photos and eye witness testimony.

You think that that's all that realationhsips are about?

How sad.

The difference between that and a relationship with an all power diety is that one is an extraordinary claim, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

What rubbish. That's just rationalization for a special pleading.

 

[Jazer]

a student does not have to learn.

Then they would not be a student they would be an atheist. They do not want to learn the truth. To be a student you have to be 100% willing to learn. Just like a teacher has to be 100% willing to teach.

 

[juvenissun]

Then they would not be a student they would be an atheist. They do not want to learn the truth. To be a student you have to be 100% willing to learn. Just like a teacher has to be 100% willing to teach.

I think you might forget what the situation was when you were a student. A student takes 3 to 5 courses in a term, he or she is not possible to learn all the contents. They have to choose. In other words, if they think a topic is not critical to them, they will then just try to get by and NOT to learn it. When I was student, to those subjects I didn't like, I simply abandoned them.

Of course, I regret many such decisions now. That is why I am so bad in biology. I was chasing physics and thought biology is only for girls. Of course, I was so confident that I did not bother to seek any proof to my misconception at that time.

 

[juvenissun]

The key words here are: "Believe in" and "Accept". One can believe in a God(s) and still accept Evolution. One does not "believe" in a scientific theory but "accepts" a scientific theory.

On the other hand in religions one must "accept" in order to "believe".

There are fundamental differences between science, the physical world and that of the supernatural and faith based world.

What is important is that we first learn to respect each other's beliefs and principles before we pass judgements!

I am an avowed atheist but agree to the Orthodox Church's dogma of: "One will not necessarily go to hell if one does not accept Christ, but by following Christ one will be on a better path to heaven". This means that even if one is not a Christian one may enter heaven if one leads an honest life based on Jesus' principles of love, compassion, forgiveness.

I stopped believing in God when I was around 9 years old! Evolution had nothing to do with it; it was purely a logical conclusion for me!

I do however support the right to worship and the right to religious belief. Free will is no good if one is not allowed to exercise it!

I don't think you want to be proud of it. A 9-year old does not know much, if anything at all. Many (or all) critical concepts rooted in childhood are only prejudices. The bad thing is that such type of prejudice is pretty hard to be turned around.

 

[AV1611VET]

I stopped believing in God when I was around 9 years old! Evolution had nothing to do with it; it was purely a logical conclusion for me!

And this, my friend, is why I'm proud to be ridiculed for telling logic to take a hike.

Logic can take a hike and die; and I'll laugh all the way to Heaven when it does.

 

[Crusader05]

You think that that's all that realationhsips are about?

How sad.

What rubbish. That's just rationalization for a special pleading.

I was addressing the issue of emprically proving a relationship with someone, since an earlier post asserted that it couldn't be done. So if you're asserting I don't love my Mom then you're wrong.

The claim that there is a omnipotent creator deity is a pretty extraordinary claim, the claim that someone has a mom isn't.

What I think is total rubbish is the arguments put forth by the theists on this thread. We hear that there is all this evidence for god, when we ask to see it we hear it's all experiential and faith-based and can't be emprically tested. So the bottom line is that their is no evidence, therefore thesits have not met the burrden of proof to convince me that there is a god.

I spent the first 25 years of my life a believer, but now I have to accept the obvious and I am much more happier for it.

 

[mzungu]

I don't think you want to be proud of it. A 9-year old does not know much, if anything at all. Many (or all) critical concepts rooted in childhood are only prejudices. The bad thing is that such type of prejudice is pretty hard to be turned around.

Pride has nothing to do with it! There is nothing to be proud about coming to a personal conclusion. As for rooted prejudices would religion be also rooted prejudices?

The older I grow the more I am not afraid of what life has in store for me. If there is a hell or heaven, and I end up in hell then I will be very interested in examining and investigating this place. After all science is about inquiry. Leaving no stone unturned and all that

 

[timatter]

AV1611VET- said "And this, my friend, is why I'm proud to be ridiculed for telling logic to take a hike.

Logic can take a hike and die;.........." How are we supposed to determine what is right if we just have faith in what we were told from childhood? You are just trusting that you were born into the right religion. You must realize that if a Muslin or Mormon just had faith and never questioned, he would go to hell for it, according to most Christian denominations. So how is just having faith a god thing? ​

 

[AV1611VET]

How are we supposed to determine what is right if we just have faith in what we were told from childhood?

I don't understand this question.

If one just has faith in what he was told from childhood, then if he was told wrong, he will die in his sins.

If, on the other hand, he takes the initiative to learn, and reads the Bible, he will gain enough faith to get saved and never see Hell.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[AtheistVet]

You think that that's all that realationhsips are about?

How sad.

What rubbish. That's just rationalization for a special pleading.

He didn't say that's what relationships are all about, he was saying relationships can be independently verified, which someone earlier tried to say there were just personal experiences.

Second of all, I don't think you know what special pleading is.

 

[timatter]

AV1611VET- But you said logic can take a hike and die. Doesn't that mean not to question. Even Paul said "Test everything and hold onto that which is good." That is what I did and it didn't hold up.
Besides, Muslims read the Koran, and Mormons read the BOM, and pray for a sign from God, and millions of Mormons feel a burning in the bosom that makes them think God is confirming it is true. I believe they are mistaken, but not that they are going to hell because of it.

 

[AV1611VET]

AV1611VET- But you said logic can take a hike and die. Doesn't that mean not to question. Even Paul said "Test everything and hold onto that which is good." That is what I did and it didn't hold up.
Besides, Muslims read the Koran, and Mormons read the BOM, and pray for a sign from God, and millions of Mormons feel a burning in the bosom that makes them think God is confirming it is true. I believe they are mistaken, but not that they are going to hell because of it.

Timatter, I see from your profile that you believe in atheistic evolution; so I have to ask this question.

What does it matter to you what Baptists, Muslims or Mormons believe or 'feel in their bosom'?

If you don't care, why should I?

You don't feel a burden to become a Muslim, or a Mormon, or even a Baptist.

I, on the other hand, have one; and I believe it is authentic.

As I'm fond of saying: I'm a Christian by election, and a Baptist by conviction.

So no matter what I say to you, you're just going to counter it with the other two.

• If I say I'm a Baptist, you can ask, "Why not Muslim or Mormon?"
• If I say I'm a Muslim, you can ask, "Why not Baptist or Mormon?"
• If I say I'm a Mormon, you can ask, "Why not Baptist or Muslim?"

But the one thing I notice you guys NEVER ask, is if a person is an atheist or agnostic.

Even the Buddhists and Taoists here get a free ride.

It's not what we believe that bothers you guys, it's what we are.