A Letter From An Atheist

[mathclub]

Dear Theists,

I don't care.

I believe in evolution, the big bang theory and germ theory. I believe that the earth is somewhere around 4.5 billion years old and that the universe is close to 14 billion years old. I believe that we evolved from some type of primate type mammal, and that the other primates are our closest relatives. I believe that the earth is round, and spins through space on an orbit around the sun. I believe that gravity holds us to this planet, but that our model of it is far from perfect. I believe that life started on this planet of it's own accord, with no outside help.

But at the end of the day, I don't care.

I don't care if evolution is rejected by the scientific community one day. I don't care if the big bang theory is flushed down the toilet. I don't care if germ theory is thrown out with yesterdays trash. None of my beliefs about any of your gods have anything to do with any of this. None of my rejection of the myriad of god tales has anything to do with anything I have listed above, or any other scientific fact.

I don't believe in any version of god(s) that I have ever heard, because all of it sounds ridiculous and stupid to me, and there is not the slightest bit of evidence to support any of it. Your god has never spoken to me, revealed himself to me or had anything to do with my life. So why would I believe?

But I get it.

I get that if evolution is true that your bible is shown to be a pack of lies. I get that if scientists show beyond all doubt that the big bang created the universe that your koran is shown to be factually incorrect. I get that these scientific theories attack the very foundation of your belief, and show it to be the patchwork of myths, lies, tales and stories that it actually is. I get that this science is threatening to you, and compels you to attack it in defence of your religion.

I get that you don't understand what a false dichotomy is, that you somehow think if you can prove evolution or the big bang is not true that you misguidely think that it somehow makes your particular religions creation myth more correct than another religions creation myth.

You could disprove any of the theories mentioned here, or any other scientific theory you care to name, but at the end of the day exactly NONE of my belief system is based upon any of these facts the way your religion is based on your creation myth. So guess what?

I don't care.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't care.

Dear Mathclub,

Thank you for taking the time to vent your frustrations out in print.

Many people do it with physical violence, and it only serves to make matters worse.

Your spite has been noted, and you will be prayed for.

I too don't care, when it comes to evidence, but I take flack for it; so consider yourself lucky to be exempt from ridicule for not caring whether or not, at the end of the day, as you said:

• evolution is rejected by the scientific community
• the big bang theory is flushed down the toilet
• germ theory is thrown out with yesterdays [sic] trash

Had I said that, it would probably end up on another site that is dedicated to revealing to the general public what some consider to be 'darndest'.

In the meantime, enjoy your freedom to vent against this great nation's God; and every time you say something negative about Him, remember this: in some countries, they may come knocking on your door for ridiculing their god.

Our God is above all that.

Sincerely,

AV1611VET

p.s. Science can take a hike.

 

[crimsonleaf]

Dear Mathclub

I believe in the Big Bang, the age of the Earth and Universe, the evolutionary chain you describe. I also believe in God. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

However, what you've done is give us a nice picture of what an atheist is: somebody who doesn't care about his origins or future. That's perfectly reasonable as you evolved by accident from a bubbling fusion of chemicals eons ago. Why care; you're ultimately pointless.

You could have saved yourself the trouble though and just given us a link to "Atheist" in Wikipedia.

 

[Crusader05]

Dear Mathclub

I believe in the Big Bang, the age of the Earth and Universe, the evolutionary chain you describe. I also believe in God. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

However, what you've done is give us a nice picture of what an atheist is: somebody who doesn't care about his origins or future. That's perfectly reasonable as you evolved by accident from a bubbling fusion of chemicals eons ago. Why care; you're ultimately pointless.

You could have saved yourself the trouble though and just given us a link to "Atheist" in Wikipedia.

I think the letter made some very good points, especially disconnecting evolution and the big bang from atheism, they are different topics and disproving them does not prove a diety.

As for you assertion that atheists have some nihilistic view of the world I have to disagree very much. As an athiest I see that this is the only life I will ever have, I'm not looking forward to some afterlife, rather I have to make my impact here and now. I was in many ways more nihilistic as an evangelical chrsitian because in the grand sceme of things this life was meaningless compaired to the vast expanse of eternity.

The natural processes that formed the Earth and the life on it were not an "accident", the story of evolution is amazing and beautiful. We are all very lucky to be here and I appreciate that fact every day.

Unlike some theist I do not need the validation of an imaginary diety to give my life meaning, I define my own meaning.

 

[Jazer]

But I get it.

You do not "get it" because you have not gotten to the point where you see that there is no conflict between science and the Bible. So your still biased and are not objective.

 

[Jazer]

However, what you've done is give us a nice picture of what an atheist is: somebody who doesn't care about his origins or future.

They don't care about where they came from or where they are going, they only care about this point in time?

 

[Crusader05]

You do not "get it" because you have not gotten to the point where you see that there is no conflict between science and the Bible. So your still biased and are not objective.

Even if there was no conflict between science and the bibe, which there most certainly is, that does not prove the existance of god.

 

[Spiritlight]

You probably shouldn't worry about stuff so much. Go and have some fun, dont think too hard about stuff like that it will make you miserable. Have laugh with your mates and cheer up!

 

[Jazer]

Even if there was no conflict between science and the bibe, which there most certainly is, that does not prove the existance of god.

What scientific proof do you have that there is no God. Our relationship with God is a subjective personal relationship.

The post I read had a lot to say about what other people say and or think about God. There was a testimony that the person did not know God and had no experance regarding God. Pretty much I am getting a lot of heresay that would not be allowed for evidence in the United States.

 

[Crusader05]

What scientific proof do you have that there is no God. Our relationship with God is a subjective personal relationship.

The post I read had a lot to say about what other people say and or think about God. There was a testimony that the person did not know God and had no experance regarding God. Pretty much I am getting a lot of heresay that would not be allowed for evidence in the United States.

I don't need any evidence to not believe in a god, the burden of proof is on those making the claim that there is a god. It would be like you asking me for evidece disproving the existance of the loch ness monster, it's a logical fallacy. So far I have seen no evidence of a supreme being, provide me that evidence and I'll reconsider.

The fact that so much of the 'evidence' for god is experiencial, and therefore not independently verifiable, is not compelling evidence. Muslims, Hindus, pagans, people from all religious traditions report having similar experiences. It much more plausable that religion plays on human emotions rather than all these faiths having supernatural origins.

 

[juvenissun]

I don't need any evidence to not believe in a god, the burden of proof is on those making the claim that there is a god. It would be like you asking me for evidece disproving the existance of the loch ness monster, it's a logical fallacy. So far I have seen no evidence of a supreme being, provide me that evidence and I'll reconsider.

The fact that so much of the 'evidence' for god is experiencial, and therefore not independently verifiable, is not compelling evidence. Muslims, Hindus, pagans, people from all religious traditions report having similar experiences. It much more plausable that religion plays on human emotions rather than all these faiths having supernatural origins.

You don't get it.

Just like a prof. who teaches a class in an university. The burden of learning is on the students, not on the professor. If a student does not want to learn, the professor is happy to give him F. No problem.

I don't need to prove God to you. You "want" to prove there is no God.

 

[Crusader05]

You don't get it.

Just like a prof. who teaches a class in an university. The burden of learning is on the students, not on the professor. If a student does not want to learn, the professor is happy to give him F. No problem.

I don't need to prove God to you. You "want" to prove there is no God.

I was raised an evangelical baptists, I read the bible cover-to-cover, went to church every sunday,went to bible camp and everything. I believed all the way up to my early 20's, but then I really asked myself the tough questions and finally admitted what I had suspected in the back of my head all along, that is it made up.

I remain open to the possibility of a god, but so far no evidence has arisen which compells me to believe. Just as I remain open to the idea that intelligent life exists on an alien world, but until I see proof I don't walk around calling myself an a-alienist, I just hold the default position which is disbelief.

 

[chilehed]

...I get that if evolution is true that your bible is shown to be a pack of lies...

I get that you don't really understand Christianity as well as you think you do.

 

[Doveaman]

I was raised an evangelical baptists, I read the bible cover-to-cover, went to church every sunday,went to bible camp and everything. I believed all the way up to my early 20's, but then I really asked myself the tough questions and finally admitted what I had suspected in the back of my head all along, that is it made up.

So the religion you "made up" in your own head had nothing to do with God. I'm glad you came to that realization.

And the next time you have tough questions you don't ask yourself, you ask someone else. The reason they are though is because you don't know the answers.

 

[Orogeny]

People: Unless you are wholly ignorant of the evidences for evolution, the big bang, and gravity, then you don't BELIEVE these things, you ACCEPT them based on a PREPONDERANCE OF EVIDENCE.

Using the word 'believe' when you mean 'accept' makes it much easier for the less honest among the creationist movement (AV) to make a stupid semantic argument against science. Please take advantage of scientific vocabulary; it is there for a reason.

 

[Naraoia]

I too don't care, when it comes to evidence, but I take flack for it; so consider yourself lucky to be exempt from ridicule for not caring whether or not, at the end of the day, as you said:

• evolution is rejected by the scientific community
• the big bang theory is flushed down the toilet
• germ theory is thrown out with yesterdays [sic] trash

Had I said that, it would probably end up on another site that is dedicated to revealing to the general public what some consider to be 'darndest'.

I think you misunderstood the point. What mathclub was trying to discuss - or maybe just declare, I agree that the tone of the OP didn't have a lot to do with "discussion" - is attachment to your beliefs.

Put simply, he seems to be saying that he cares about the evidence, not the beliefs, whereas you* disregard the evidence because you care so much about the belief.

mathclub can correct me if I got it wrong.

FWIW, I don't think this is a distinction that can be generalised. We scientists can get very attached, and confirmation bias is a human universal. Whoever you are and whatever you believe with conviction, you're probably going to have higher standards of evidence for opposing views. I guess the key to scientific thinking is awareness of confirmation bias and willingness to overcome it.

*His idea of a theist, that is.

Our relationship with God is a subjective personal relationship.

Which is precisely the reason God's existence is not a scientific fact.

You don't get it.

Just like a prof. who teaches a class in an university. The burden of learning is on the students, not on the professor. If a student does not want to learn, the professor is happy to give him F. No problem.

And if a professor does not want to teach, the university would be perfectly right to fire them. The students would also be perfectly right to be mightily miffed with them.

I don't need to prove God to you. You "want" to prove there is no God.

Burden of proof. Look it up. No one wants to "prove" there is no God because (1) it is theoretically impossible to do so, (2) it is the null hypothesis.

(If you consider yourself a scientist, "null hypothesis" ought to ring a bell...)

 

[Crusader05]

So the religion you "made up" in your own head had nothing to do with God. I'm glad you came to that realization.

And the next time you have tough questions you don't ask yourself, you ask someone else. The reason they are though is because you don't know the answers.

Well I don't think I've been talked down to this much on this site in a while. I love how you all assume to know what is in my heart and mind and come to the conclusion I was never a 'true believer'. Not only is it insulting but you are wrong.

 

[Davian]

Dear Mathclub,

Thank you for taking the time to vent your frustrations out in print.

Many people do it with physical violence, and it only serves to make matters worse.

Your spite has been noted, and you will be prayed for.

I too don't care, when it comes to evidence, but I take flack for it; so consider yourself lucky to be exempt from ridicule for not caring whether or not, at the end of the day, as you said:

• evolution is rejected by the scientific community
• the big bang theory is flushed down the toilet
• germ theory is thrown out with yesterdays [sic] trash

Had I said that, it would probably end up on another site that is dedicated to revealing to the general public what some consider to be 'darndest'.

In the meantime, enjoy your freedom to vent against this great nation's God; and every time you say something negative about Him, remember this: in some countries, they may come knocking on your door for ridiculing their god.

Our God is above all that.

Sincerely,

AV1611VET

p.s. Science can take a hike.

The United States has its own god? How cool is that?

Do you think Canada has its own god, or like in so many things, we ride on your coat-tails?

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

In the meantime, enjoy your freedom to vent against this great nation's God; and every time you say something negative about Him, remember this: in some countries, they may come knocking on your door for ridiculing their god.

Our God is above all that.

Except on Judgment Day.

 

[AlexBP]

Dear Theists,

I don't care.

If you don't care about what we say and think, then why are you on this message board? Your presence here looks like proof that you do care.