A few questions for Protestants

[concretecamper]

Remember what Jesus said about truth coming from God and not man? That means also that Jesus' words come over any of His followers.

so you dont believe the book 1 Timothy?

Matthew 126:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

AMEN!

 

[timothyu]

so you dont believe the book 1 Timothy?

As I said the word of God is truth first and foremost over any word of man.

AMEN!

Yes the church was built upon truth from God which was the only foundation it was to be built upon.

 

[concretecamper]

As I said the word of God is truth first and foremost over any word of man.


Yes the church was built upon truth from God which was the only foundation it was to be built upon.

Thank for the exchange.

I hope this thread CLEARLY demonstrates to all the dangers of Sola Scriptura

 

[Clare73]

Christ and His Church are One. So the Church IS the pillar amd foundation of truth, just like Paul wrote to Timothy.

In the NT, the church is the body of Christ, not the magisterium of a particular denomination.

 

[Clare73]

Hey, 7b's how's it going??? Anyway, I noticed you too did not answer the last question of my OP. So here it is again....

"For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?"

Pretty easy yes or no question.

Yes or no questions are based on a premise.

If you don't agree with the premise, they can't be answered with either a yes or no.

Have you stopped beating animals, yes or no?

 

[Clare73]

So would you be willing to agree with me that the 'bible', for a Christian, is "Not" the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth, but rather is the "Church"?

And what is the source for this truth of which the church is the pillar and ground?

Keeping in mind that in the NT the church is the whole body of Christ.

 

[concretecamper]

In the NT, the church is the body of Christ, not the magisterium of a particular denomination.

you are correct. The Body of Christ or His Church isn't "the magisterium of a particular denomination". I wonder who teaches that?

 

[Clare73]

Lots of teachings about the function of the institution but nothing about the Gospel of the Kingdom, the very thing Jesus said He was sent to proclaim and teach. So which is more important, scripture or institution?
If you've wanted to become more familiar with key documents of the Church, start here

This thread is not about the gospel.

The gospel of the Kingdom is repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall receive forgiveness of your sin.

 

[Clare73]

you are correct. The Body of Christ or His Church isn't "the magisterium of a particular denomination". I wonder who teaches that?

But they are a part of the body of Christ.

However, it is all the born again who are the pillar and foundation.

Now, what is the source of this truth of which the whole body of Christ is the pillar and foundation?

 

[Clare73]

Why does Peter resist what Jesus has told the disciples about His suffering and death, and why does Jesus rebuke him so harshly in front of the others?

It's not about Peter.

It's about Satan tempting Jesus through Peter as the same Satan tempted Adam through Eve.

The issue with Eve's speech was not Eve, and the issue with Peter's speech was not Peter, in both the issue was Satan.

The response of the second Adam to Satan "cleaned up" the response of the first Adam to Satan, which response the first Adam failed to make.

 

[Clare73]

Under the Protestant/Sola Scriptura (the Bible alone) theological system, is it your belief, and would you agree, there exists no person or no institution that can infallibly decide what is true and what is false for Christians when it comes to matters of faith and/or morals?

Clare73 said:

Disingenuous question or not. . .
first, we must establish that such an infallible institution can or does actually exist, one that has never gotten it wrong since the beginning of the NT.
Do you know of one?
If we can't establish such error-proof institution, the question is moot, because
no one can enjoy such certainty.

Crickets. . .

.

 

[concretecamper]

But they are a part of the body of Christ.

but that is not what you said. You are dodging my comment, I know why.

However, it is all the born again who are the pillar and foundation.

This idea has no scriptural support.

Now, what is the source of this truth of which the whole body of Christ is the pillar and foundation?

i never claimed such a thing. You did with your comment I quoted above.

 

[Clare73]

but that is not what you said. You are dodging my comment, I know why.

I said: "In the NT, the church is the body of Christ, not the magisterium of a particular denomination."
By that I mean, the body of Christ, which is the church, is not limited to the magisterium of a particular denomination, which is part of the body of Christ, but not all of it.

However, it is all the born again who are the pillar and foundation.

This idea has no scriptural support.

i never claimed such a thing. You did with your comment I quoted above.

the whole body of Christ = the church = the pillar and foundation of truth

Do you not know that this equivocation is apostolic teaching?

All believers (the born again, John 3:5-7)

are the body of Christ (Romans 12:5; 1 Corinthians 6:15,
1 Corinthians 10:17, 1 Corinthians 12:12, 1 Corinthians 12:20, 1 Corinthians 12:27; Ephesians 2:16, Ephesians 4:4, Ephesians 4:25, Ephesians 5:30; Colossians 3:15),

which is the church (Ephesians 1:22-23, Ephesians 4:12, Ephesians 5:23, Ephesians 5:30; 1 Corinthians 12:27; Colossians 1:18, Colossians 1:24),

which is the pillar and foundation of the truth (1 Timothy 3:15).

 

[concretecamper]

By that I mean, the body of Christ, which is the church, is not limited to the magisterium of a particular denomination

no one ever said it was. Now I ask you again, who teaches this?

 

[Clare73]

no one ever said it was. Now I ask you again, who teaches this?

If no one is asserting it, it matters not (unless the point is untrue), and
the question becomes a derailment.

 

[concretecamper]

If no one is asserting it, it matters not (unless the point is untrue), and
the question becomes a derailment.

thank you for admitting your comment was in your words "untue"

 

[Clare73]

thank you for admitting your comment was in your words "untue"

The thank you is misplaced, for. . .

the comment: "the body of Christ, which is the church, is not limited to the magisterium of a particular denomination"
is not untrue (it is true),
does not matter if no one is asserting it,
unless it is untrue, which it is not.

Perhaps you could answer the question which remains unanswered in post #172. . .
which is the answer to the OP.

 

[timothyu]

This thread is not about the gospel.

The gospel of the Kingdom is repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall receive forgiveness of your sin.

Yes it is as Jesus' gospel was about the Kingdom of God, His truth coming before and taking priority to any truths from the man made institutions of man.

The Gospel of the Kingdom is that the governments of man will fall and be replaced by the governance/Kingdom of the Father. The self serving world will be replaced by one which considers the needs and well being of others. The other gospel came later.

 

[timothyu]

I hope this thread CLEARLY demonstrates to all the dangers of Sola Scriptura

To institutions, yes.

 

[Clare73]

Yes it is as Jesus' gospel was about the Kingdom of God, His truth coming before and taking priority to any truths from the man made institutions of man.

The Gospel of the Kingdom is that the governments of man will fall and be replaced by the governance/Kingdom of the Father. The self serving world will be replaced by one which considers the needs and well being of others. The other gospel came later.

That's not in any Bible I've seen.

And what does it have to do with the OP?