Is The Sinner’s Prayer Biblical?


  • Total voters
    50

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,511
7,861
...
✟1,195,112.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Why would the KJV be the only version of the Bible to be trusted .... when it's an English translation ... and vast numbers of Christians don't speak English ?


Also, the King James is available in other languages:

Textus Receptus in Spanish (RVG 2010):
https://www.amazon.com/Santa-Biblia-Rústica-Valera-Spanish/dp/0758907567/

King James Francais in French:
Bible King James Française | King James Française

Koning Jacobus Vertaling in Dutch:
http://www.koningjacobusvertaling.org/info_english.php

Bibelen Guds Ord in Norwegian:
http://www.hermon.no/netbibelen/

Thai King James Bible Version:
The Bible (พระคัมภีร์ไทย)

Korean King James Version:
https://www.amazon.com/Korean-English-Bible-Leather-Golden/dp/B005DPPENA/

Brazillian Portuguese (the BKJ):
Bíblia King James Fiel 1611
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,511
7,861
...
✟1,195,112.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I say call it what you will. If you reject the will of man over the will of God, the job is done. It is finished. God forgives the minute we put His will first. So now people who have rejected the old ways can focus on what Jesus' true gospel was, that God would be returning to rid the world of the governance of man and Himself rule. It is about Him first, not us. Too bad things got diverted back onto what is in it for us, our will more important to build a religion on than God's.

I can say the same in that your interpretation is rejecting God’s will but it is not enough to simply say that and then not back up such claims with the Bible and neither can one say that and not address my points with Scripture. So the ball is back in your court. Explain the actual points I made using the context in post #2.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,511
7,861
...
✟1,195,112.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I say call it what you will. If you reject the will of man over the will of God, the job is done. It is finished. God forgives the minute we put His will first. So now people who have rejected the old ways can focus on what Jesus' true gospel was, that God would be returning to rid the world of the governance of man and Himself rule. It is about Him first, not us. Too bad things got diverted back onto what is in it for us, our will more important to build a religion on than God's.

We see the Ninevites cry out unto God and forsake their evil ways in Jonah 3. What is the crying out unto God mean? It means seeking forgiveness of one’s past life of sin with the Lord. See again the Tax Collector’s cry unto God in Luke 18. What in the world do you think happened with him? Is that not salvation by God’s grace?
 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
14,734
10,041
78
Auckland
✟380,360.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So I take it to mean you are saying that seeing I hold to the doctrine of Divine Preservation of God’s Word that I am somehow causing our friend either physical or mental suffering in someway.

I was referring to the argument not the person presenting it. To be honest I was not aware you held that position before this thread. There are some on this forum that I find aggressive in their presentations - you are not one of them.

Kees is brand new on the forum so I was explaining what he might expect here - he sounds like a first class brother so I was encouraging him in a semi humorous manner. Humour is great for dissipating the intensity of argument.
No offence intended.
 
Upvote 0

Kees Boer

Active Member
Dec 14, 2021
256
123
65
Gainesville
Visit site
✟31,533.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Wow, you've put a lot of time into this and I really appreciate it. With so many things you go over, I would have a hard time to really do this justice. I appreciate your heart for God's Word. I wish I could speak with you like on the phone or something. Again, I agree context is very, very important to interpret the Scriptures correctly. The problem is that satan will many times take Passages out of context. He took Psalm 91 out of context, Which ironically was the Psalm that Jewish people used to defend themselves against demons. But Jesus quoted from Deut. 6-8, Which is right in context of the Shema. (Chapter 6:4-6), Which was the yoke that Jesus used. I'd love to talk with you. I'm a missionary here in Bolivia. But I do have an American phone number. And you can see my channel on Youtube if you want to. "The Kees Boer Ministry Channel." May God bless you. Read the Word every day, Memorize It. Memorize entire Books, and then obey It.
 
Upvote 0

Kees Boer

Active Member
Dec 14, 2021
256
123
65
Gainesville
Visit site
✟31,533.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I was referring to the argument not the person presenting it. To be honest I was not aware you held that position before this thread. There are some on this forum that I find aggressive in their presentations - you are not one of them.

Kees is brand new on the forum so I was explaining what he might expect here - he sounds like a first class brother so I was encouraging him in a semi humorous manner. Humour is great for dissipating the intensity of argument.
No offence intended.

I like humour. I think Jesus used humour. To me it's funny, when Jesus said things like: "Haven't you read" and He said that to the Pharisees, who had the entire Tanagh memorized. It's like asking a guy from New York: "Have you never eaten Pizza!!!"
 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
14,734
10,041
78
Auckland
✟380,360.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I like humour. I think Jesus used humour. To me it's funny, when Jesus said things like: "Haven't you read" and He said that to the Pharisees, who had the entire Tanagh memorized. It's like asking a guy from New York: "Have you never eaten Pizza!!!"

Kees if you hit reply then the poster will get an alert, otherwise he may not know you have responded to him....

As an aside my favourite example of humour in scripture is 2 Chron 18:14-16
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,511
7,861
...
✟1,195,112.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I was referring to the argument not the person presenting it. To be honest I was not aware you held that position before this thread. There are some on this forum that I find aggressive in their presentations - you are not one of them.

My apologies; And thank you for being kind with your words, and explaining what you meant.

You said:
Kees is brand new on the forum so I was explaining what he might expect here - he sounds like a first class brother so I was encouraging him in a semi humorous manner. Humour is great for dissipating the intensity of argument.
No offence intended.

I understand. Oh, and yes, humor is useful tool in discussion on the forums if properly used.

May God bless you.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,511
7,861
...
✟1,195,112.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Wow, you've put a lot of time into this and I really appreciate it. With so many things you go over, I would have a hard time to really do this justice.
I appreciate your heart for God's Word. I wish I could speak with you like on the phone or something. Again, I agree context is very, very important to interpret the Scriptures correctly. The problem is that satan will many times take Passages out of context. He took Psalm 91 out of context, Which ironically was the Psalm that Jewish people used to defend themselves against demons. But Jesus quoted from Deut. 6-8, Which is right in context of the Shema. (Chapter 6:4-6), Which was the yoke that Jesus used. I'd love to talk with you. I'm a missionary here in Bolivia. But I do have an American phone number. And you can see my channel on Youtube if you want to. "The Kees Boer Ministry Channel." May God bless you. Read the Word every day, Memorize It. Memorize entire Books, and then obey It.

Thank you for the offer, but I find that discussions by phone and email usually do not go well when we as believers are in disagreement on key core truths on God’s Holy Word (like on on the meaning behind words like repentance). I have been down that road before. It usually does not go well. It usually ends up with the other person telling me to repent of my beliefs and how they know more than me. Also, it may not be your intention to do such things, but I also see personal conversations as a way of influence by the other person (When they are not willing to discuss their beliefs online back and forth with me for all to see). There is nothing that cannot be discussed here on the forums openly for all to see without getting one’s emotions in the way or without exerting some kind of authoritarian influence personally (Note: Not suggesting that this would be the case for you, but I don’t want to face any potential awkward moments like that). For I am not impressed by credentials. I am here on the forums to discuss God’s Word. Granted, I do have close Christian friends in Christ and we do not agree on everything, but that is because I know them personally. We have come to agreement to agree to disagree on certain things in His Word; And God brought them into my life for a reason, and we can have fellowship and love each other as brethren. But such a thing is different.

Anyways, the offer still stands for you to address my points in regards to my case for biblical case for repentance in post #2. If you don’t want to discuss that on a written forum, that is entirely up to you. But for me, that is how I like to discuss God’s Word with others (in whom I don’t know). Hope you understand, and may God bless you.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

A_Thinker

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 23, 2004
11,911
9,064
Midwest
✟953,784.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I know it seems absurd to you that the King James Bible could be God’s Holy Word for today, but many things of God are miraculous and don’t always make sense to us. We cannot explain how God does miracles. So just because we cannot rationalize miracles, we should not discount the possibility that the doctrine of Divine Preservation is without any merit. I would encourage you to check out…
The King James Bible didn't exist until 1611, so ... for most of the lifetime of the Church, it wasn't available to any believer.

Even today, translations into languages other than English, are made from the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts. The KJV isn't lingually available to non-English readers.

The miracle ... is the preservation of the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts, ... from which all subsequent translations, including the KJV, are drawn. These manuscripts span the lifetime of the Church, ... and are the source for every Bible ever distributed ...
 
Last edited:
  • Useful
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0

testifier_uk

Active Member
Dec 2, 2021
183
6
49
Bolton
✟2,406.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Many say the Sinner’s Prayer is not biblical. Yet, I say this in love: They are simply ignorant of the Scriptures have to say plainly. Romans 10:13 says whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Luke 18:9-14 talks about the Tax Collector crying out to God in seeking forgiveness over his sins. 1 John 1:9 tells us to confess of sin so as to be forgiven of sin. Nobody can cleanse themselves of their own sins by good deeds alone. Only God’s grace can cleanse past sin and that is why we boldly come before the throne of grace as it says in Hebrews 4:16. We go to our advocate Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1), and we confess our sins to Jesus to be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). This is why we are initially and foundationally saved by God’s grace without works. But that does not mean Christians can refuse to enter the Secondary Aspect of Salvation in entering the Sanctification Process by the Spirit, though. Believers have to also live holy lives by the power of the working of the Spirit within them, too. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).




Who can call on the Lord to be saved ?



Psalm 145:18 The Lord is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.



Without a/ THE Spirit of truth, how do you suggest you can call on the Lord IN TRUTH ?





Initially saved as you put it, by Gods grace, and without works, also has to know it is a work of faith, ( even as all Jesus did in faith was the works of God, and how through faith the heavens were framed by God creating all in His works and by faith are together as one, neither is anything recorded as being initial)

This is because faith works by love, Gods love was faith in work ( in action always). The love of God is shed into our hearts by the Holy Ghost given us, by believing in the words of Spirit and life which also is Gods grace by which we are saved by and the faith is given as a measure to every man to believe with too...



1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,550
8,436
up there
✟307,482.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
The King James Bible didn't exist until 1611, so ... for most of the lifetime of the Church, it wasn't available to any believer.
That's the point. Neither was any Bible before it. The whole purpose of it was to make it accessible to the people to bypass clergy.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,511
7,861
...
✟1,195,112.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Wow, you've put a lot of time into this and I really appreciate it. With so many things you go over, I would have a hard time to really do this justice. I appreciate your heart for God's Word. I wish I could speak with you like on the phone or something. Again, I agree context is very, very important to interpret the Scriptures correctly. The problem is that satan will many times take Passages out of context. He took Psalm 91 out of context, Which ironically was the Psalm that Jewish people used to defend themselves against demons. But Jesus quoted from Deut. 6-8, Which is right in context of the Shema. (Chapter 6:4-6), Which was the yoke that Jesus used. I'd love to talk with you. I'm a missionary here in Bolivia. But I do have an American phone number. And you can see my channel on Youtube if you want to. "The Kees Boer Ministry Channel." May God bless you. Read the Word every day, Memorize It. Memorize entire Books, and then obey It.

Let’s stick to the original points that most here are not addressing (Which is the topic of the thread). I will just focus in on five of my points that shows that repentance is seeking forgiveness with Lord (i.e. Seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ).

#1. Acts 2:38,
The New Living Translation says in Acts 2:38 to "repent of your sins."
Douay Reheims says in Acts 2:38 to "Do penance."
New Life Version says in Acts 2:38 to "Be sorry for your sins"

#2. Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him." This doesn't make any sense if "repent" means believe in Jesus (as some teach) or to have a change of mind about sin (as others teach) or to exclusively forsake sin. Yes, we are to forsake sin as a part of repentance but that comes later after repentance (Which is to ask God for forgiveness of our sin). For how can we reconcile with a brother if we do not say we are sorry vs. just going on about life as if we did nothing wrong?

#3. Matthew 3:6 (which then lines up with Matthew 3:8). Also, in Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5).

#4. We see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness."

#5. Luke 10:13 says,
"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes." This rules out the theory that repentance is exclusively forsaking sin. Granted, forsaking sin always follow true repentance (Asking God for forgiveness of one's sins) but forsaking sin is not repentance. The word "repented" here is describing a one time event because they "repented", sitting in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:6 we learn that the King of Nineveh sat in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:8, the King of Nineveh tells people to put on sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God (i.e. repentance): and then turn from their evil way (i.e. the fruits of repentance).​

You can just address 2-3 of these points above, but I would like for you to particularly deal with Luke 17:3, and Luke 10:13. In Luke 10:13: How can one repent sitting in sackcloth and ashes if it means to forsake sin? Can you forsake sin while sitting in sackcloth and ashes? In Luke 17:3: How can we reconcile with a brother if we do not say we are sorry vs. just going on about life as if we did nothing wrong (i.e. forsaking sin)? Note: I am not saying that forsaking sin is not a part of repentance (But I believe this would be the fruits of repentance and not exclusively repentance itself alone).

Anyways, I would like for you prove that my definition on repentance on these points in Scripture is not biblical or show how my definition does not fit the context. Please show me how your definition is more superior (by the context) vs. my definition on it. If you cannot do so, I simply will take that to mean that you do not know how to prove your case in how I am actually wrong with God’s Word (the Bible). So no phone call is needed, brother. We are just two gentlemanly Christian men talking here on the forums openly for all to see here. For truth should not be hidden in my humble opinion.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,511
7,861
...
✟1,195,112.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The King James Bible didn't exist until 1611, so ... for most of the lifetime of the Church, it wasn't available to any believer.

Yes. I know what your really getting at. The Bible is a more recent invention. Your not telling me anything new here. However, I don’t believe 1611 is the day we finally got our perfect Bible. I believe it was not until the King James Cambridge Edition (circa. 1900) until people had the pure Word of God. But I am not shocked by any means that the Bible was not available to every believer perfectly prior to that point. Before that point the Bible would have definitely existed perfectly in the Textus Receptus manuscripts. Some KJB Only Christians believe the King James Bible existed perfectly in a Latin translation but I have not seen this for myself and I don’t read Latin, and so I cannot testify to something I don’t know personally. So I can only go by what knowledge I do have.

Anyways, this really is not the topic of the thread. The topic of the thread is the Sinner’s Prayer being biblical. So I replied to the rest of what you wrote here in this King James Only Bible thread.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Fervent

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2020
4,405
1,617
43
San jacinto
✟128,942.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It seems to me that the heart of the issue is much the same as that concerning the effectiveness of the sacraments. Ultimately, the sinner's prayer is a nice sentiment that expresses the need for repentance but it is not the words themselves that would make it effective it it were so. Just as the debate over the sacraments involves the superstitious elements, that is to say they are symbolic until the Holy Spirit renders them effective. The water and the words of baptism do not cleanse a person, but baptism saves us when the power of the Holy Spirit makes what they signify a reality. So too the sinner's prayer is not some incantation or magic spell to move God to forgive us, but when it is combined with the power of the Holy Spirit becomes an effective prayer. Ultimately, salvation rests with God and is implemented how He chooses but men are superstitious so we fixate on the superficial elements and miss the power behind them.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,511
7,861
...
✟1,195,112.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I don’t know of any Christian who claims to be saved without God. Most Christians agree that when we obey God (for example: Like obeying the Sinner’s Prayer as found in Scripture, i.e. to repent), it involves God changing our hearts, and moving within our life and saving us. But we have to obey and do our part. God is not going to force save us if we do nothing. God says for us to draw near to Him, and He will draw near to us. The difference between the biblical teaching on the Sinner’s Prayer and an occult spell or incantation is that spells are usually mindless sayings or words used to manipulate a specific future miraculous response. Seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ (i.e. to repent) is usually done with a godly sorrow in that we feel broken up about our sin and we are seeking forgiveness with the Lord. We are having faith and hope in what God’s Word says and hoping for cleansing and forgiveness from God. We are seeking a right relationship with God in walking with the Lord and our seeking forgiveness with Him is a part of that just as it would be in normal relationships. For if we ever said something that we did not intend to say with our wife or friend, we obviously would seek forgiveness with them by saying we are sorry and seeking forgiveness with them. We are not casting a spell or incantation when we do that. It’s just natural in a relationship to seek forgiveness if we ever messed up on occasion.

As for the word “sacraments:”

Yeah, that kind of word is usually associated with Roman Catholicism or Orthodox churches of which I find to be unbiblical. Yes, yes, I know others may use this word even in some Protestant churches, but this word is not really found in the Bible and it is a big deal to Catholics and Orthodox churches. While they may include things like baptism, etc. churches that refer to sacraments also involve some form of unbiblical practices attached to that word, too. So I believe it is best to stick to doing only what God’s Word says and not use words that are associated with groups that do religious things that are not found in His Word.
 
Last edited:
  • Useful
Reactions: timothyu
Upvote 0

Fervent

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2020
4,405
1,617
43
San jacinto
✟128,942.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I don’t know of any Christian who claims to be saved without God. Most Christians agree that when we obey God (for example: Like obeying the Sinner’s Prayer as found in Scripture, i.e. to repent), it involves God changing our hearts, and moving within our life and saving us. But we have to obey and do our part. God is not going to force save us if we do nothing. God says for us to draw near to Him, and He will draw near to us. The difference between the biblical teaching on the Sinner’s Prayer and an occult spell or incantation is that spells are usually mindless sayings or words used to manipulate a specific future miraculous response. Seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ (i.e. to repent) is usually done with a godly sorrow in that we feel broken up about our sin and we are seeking forgiveness with the Lord. We are having faith and hope in what God’s Word says and hoping for cleansing and forgiveness from God. We are seeking a right relationship with God in walking with the Lord and our seeking forgiveness with Him is a part of that just as it would be in normal relationships. For if we ever said something that we did not intend to say with our wife or friend, we obviously would seek forgiveness with them by saying we are sorry and seeking forgiveness with them. We are not casting a spell or incantation when we do that. It’s just natural in a relationship to seek forgiveness if we ever messed up on occasion.

As for the word “sacraments:”

Yeah, that kind of word is usually associated with Roman Catholicism or Orthodox churches of which I find to be unbiblical. Yes, yes, I know others may use this word even in some Protestant churches, but this word is not really found in the Bible and it is a big deal to Catholics and Orthodox churches. While they may include things like baptism, etc. churches that refer to sacraments also involve some form of unbiblical practices attached to that word, too. So I believe it is best to stick to doing only what God’s Word says and not use words that are associated with groups that do religious things that are not found in His Word.
I find sacraments a useful word since it primarily encompasses baptism(and perhaps anointment) and Eucharist. Certainly embuing them with the full meaning that the Catholic or Orthodox church has embued them with may not be appropriate, but they are a quick way to reference ordinary Christian practice in both initiation and continual service.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums