A Biblical Case For Repentance

[Bible Highlighter]

I updated even more information on my Study on Repentance. You can check that out in post #2 here (at the beginning of the thread).

 

[Danthemailman]

I really don't see how you express repentance and trust and faith in God except through prayer. It's not that you're believing in that prayer for salvation, it's that the prayer is how you are expressing the faith you have in Jesus Christ.

In regard to the sinner's prayer, simply 'reciting' a sinner's prayer (in of itself) will not accomplish anything on its own. I must have prayed the sinner's prayer 20 different times with Pat Robertson while watching the 700 Club several years ago when I was still a teenager, yet nothing happened. Why? Because there was no repentance and faith. Such a prayer needs to include what a person knows, understands, and believes about their sinfulness and need for salvation (Romans 3:23; 6:23) followed by repentance/faith. (Acts 20:21)

For a person who comes to the realization that he is lost and in need of Jesus Christ to save him, he may only obtain salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone. (Ephesians 2:8,9) He needs to understand that Jesus Christ paid the penalty for his sins by His sacrifice on the cross of Calvary, was buried, and rose again the third day, and he needs to make a genuine and willful decision to totally trust in Jesus as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation in order to be saved. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) In doing this he is calling on the name of the Lord to save him. (Romans 10:13)

Now if subsequent to such a decision, the person would like to pray what some call a "sinner’s prayer," (calling on the name of the Lord to save him in prayer) he may do so, as long as he understands that it was his decision to trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation that apprehends his salvation and not simply reciting a prayer "in of itself" as if it's a magical formula to recite a set of words, but prayer may be used to call upon the name of the Lord to be saved.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In regard to the sinner's prayer, simply 'reciting' a sinner's prayer (in of itself) will not accomplish anything on its own. I must have prayed the sinner's prayer 20 different times with Pat Robertson while watching the 700 Club several years ago when I was still a teenager, yet nothing happened. Why? Because there was no repentance and faith. Such a prayer needs to include what a person knows, understands, and believes about their sinfulness and need for salvation (Romans 3:23; 6:23) followed by repentance/faith. (Acts 20:21)

I am talking about the Sinner's Prayer as promoted by the Bible, and not from a TV program. We need to hear the Word of God and believe the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 in conjunction with the Sinner's Prayer. My study shows or proves that one of the first steps we take as Christians after believing the gospel is to seek the Lord's forgiveness with a godly sorrow. A person can just recite a prayer by some TV preacher, but if they are not being convicted by the proper Scriptures, and knowing why the are seeking His forgiveness properly (by believing the gospel), it is not going to do them any good. Obviously a Christian will acknowledge that they have sinned in their past life and there is nothing they can do to wipe that sin away and thus, they need to believe and trust Christ died for their sins, he was buried, and risen the third day for their salvation (i.e., the gospel message). Calling upon the name of the Lord for salvation is the next natural step in our Initial Salvation in most cases when believing the gospel message for salvation.

For a person who comes to the realization that he is lost and in need of Jesus Christ to save him, he may only obtain salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone. (Ephesians 2:8,9) He needs to understand that Jesus Christ paid the penalty for his sins by His sacrifice on the cross of Calvary, was buried, and rose again the third day, and he needs to make a genuine and willful decision to totally trust in Jesus as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation in order to be saved. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) In doing this he is calling on the name of the Lord to save him. (Romans 10:13)

I am not suggesting salvation in seeking forgiveness with Christ by ignoring or diluting the gospel. I believe they work in harmony together. Today, I believe God will reveal the gospel to a person in harmony with them in calling upon the name of the Lord. Believing the gospel message and calling upon the name of the Lord (seeking forgiveness) are both extremely important. I believe these things are generally done together. No doubt about it. I believe the gospel is central or primary in calling upon the name of the Lord. The gospel clearly saves, but we also have to look at the whole counsel of the Word of God on what it tells us to do next, too.

Now if subsequent to such a decision, the person would like to pray what some call a "sinner’s prayer," (calling on the name of the Lord to save him in prayer) he may do so, as long as he understands that it was his decision to trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation that apprehends his salvation and not simply reciting a prayer "in of itself" as if it's a magical formula to recite a set of words, but prayer may be used to call upon the name of the Lord to be saved.

Nowhere did I say it was a magical formulaic prayer or a scripted prayer that has to be said a certain way. My writeup also did not exclude believing the gospel message of salvation. If you were careful to read, I did write in my article:

""Asking God for forgiveness of sin" can refer to two distinct contexts: the "Sinner's Prayer," which may be part of one's initial salvation when believing the saving gospel message (Romans 10:13; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), or the ongoing confession of sin by a seasoned believer as part of continued fellowship with God (1 John 1:9; 1 John 2:1)."​

So, nowhere was I stating anything about being saved by some scripted prayer by a preacher without the gospel message.

When I first was saved back in 1992, it was like a light on inside of me. I had a love, joy, and peace that I had never known before and I wanted everyone to feel the way I did. This is because I believed both the gospel message for my salvation and called upon the Lord Jesus to save me and sought forgiveness over my past life of sin (According to a the Scriptures in a Chick tract).

So I most definitely know that the gospel saves and that it is integral to salvation.
But I also believe that if a believer just believes the gospel message and they never ever seek forgiveness with the Lord over their sin, I also see that as equally problematic. Jesus basically said repent or perish. I believe this is a call for a believer to be broken before Him with them desiring mercy from the Lord, whereby it leads to a changed life.

If you are not aware of these verses in Scripture of seeking forgiveness with God by way of prayer, then I would say that you need to go back and look at the verses I shared at the beginning of this thread.

There are many Christians today who falsely believe repentance is not a necessary part of salvation. These are the wells without water, and who turn God's grace into a license for immorality.

 

[Danthemailman]

I am talking about the Sinner's Prayer as promoted by the Bible, and not from a TV program. We need to hear the Word of God and believe the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 in conjunction with the Sinner's Prayer. My study shows or proves that one of the first steps we take as Christians after believing the gospel is to seek the Lord's forgiveness with a godly sorrow. A person can just recite a prayer by some TV preacher, but if they are not being convicted by the proper Scriptures, and knowing why the are seeking His forgiveness properly (by believing the gospel), it is not going to do them any good. Obviously a Christian will acknowledge that they have sinned in their past life and there is nothing they can do to wipe that sin away and thus, they need to believe and trust Christ died for their sins, he was buried, and risen the third day for their salvation (i.e., the gospel message). Calling upon the name of the Lord for salvation is the next natural step in our Initial Salvation in most cases when believing the gospel message for salvation.



I am not suggesting salvation in seeking forgiveness with Christ by ignoring or diluting the gospel. I believe they work in harmony together. Today, I believe God will reveal the gospel to a person in harmony with them in calling upon the name of the Lord. Believing the gospel message and calling upon the name of the Lord (seeking forgiveness) are both extremely important. I believe these things are generally done together. No doubt about it. I believe the gospel is central or primary in calling upon the name of the Lord. The gospel clearly saves, but we also have to look at the whole counsel of the Word of God on what it tells us to do next, too.



Nowhere did I say it was a magical formulaic prayer or a scripted prayer that has to be said a certain way. My writeup also did not exclude believing the gospel message of salvation. If you were careful to read, I did write in my article:

""Asking God for forgiveness of sin" can refer to two distinct contexts: the "Sinner's Prayer," which may be part of one's initial salvation when believing the saving gospel message (Romans 10:13; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), or the ongoing confession of sin by a seasoned believer as part of continued fellowship with God (1 John 1:9; 1 John 2:1)."​

So, nowhere was I stating anything about being saved by some scripted prayer by a preacher without the gospel message.

When I first was saved back in 1992, it was like a light on inside of me. I had a love, joy, and peace that I had never known before and I wanted everyone to feel the way I did. This is because I believed both the gospel message for my salvation and called upon the Lord Jesus to save me and sought forgiveness over my past life of sin (According to a the Scriptures in a Chick tract).

So I most definitely know that the gospel saves and that it is integral to salvation.
But I also believe that if a believer just believes the gospel message and they never ever seek forgiveness with the Lord over their sin, I also see that as equally problematic. Jesus basically said repent or perish. I believe this is a call for a believer to be broken before Him with them desiring mercy from the Lord, whereby it leads to a changed life.

If you are not aware of these verses in Scripture of seeking forgiveness with God by way of prayer, then I would say that you need to go back and look at the verses I shared at the beginning of this thread.

There are many Christians today who falsely believe repentance is not a necessary part of salvation. These are the wells without water, and who turn God's grace into a license for immorality.

My post was addressed to worshipjunkie and nowhere did I accuse you of stating anything about being saved by some scripted prayer by a preacher without the gospel message.
Repentance (rightly understood) is a part of salvation. (Acts 11:17,18; 20:21)

In regard to 1 John 1:9, notice that - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9) is in contrast to - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:10)

You seem to misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory of every sin) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin, we are toast!" Who could actually write an exhaustive list of every sin they have ever committed or ever will commit? Sin is not only missing the mark by what we do but also what we fail to do. (James 4:17)

Believers "confess" (Greek - homologeó) speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness in contrast with saying that we have no sin or that we have not sinned. (1 John 1:8-10)

Also, these ungodly men in the book of Jude who have crept in unnoticed and are described as wells without water and who turn God's grace into a license for immorality are not Christians. These ungodly men/pseudo Christians are further described as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit (vs. 19) In CONTRAST to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ (vs. 1).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

My post was addressed to worshipjunkie and nowhere did I accuse you of stating anything about being saved by some scripted prayer by a preacher without the gospel message.

My apologies. I honestly thought you were writing to me.
Sorry about that. Honest mistake.

Repentance (rightly understood) is a part of salvation. (Acts 11:17,18; 20:21)

When God tells man to repent, I believe it means turning to God, which entails either seeking forgiveness for one’s past life of sin through prayer or confessing one’s sins to Jesus as a believer. Repentance involves a genuine broken heart before God desiring the Lord’s mercy along with a heartfelt desire to turn away from sin. This then leads to the fruits of repentance.

For the person who first accepts the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: Repentance can generally be included and it marks the beginning of their faith in Christ by acknowledging that they have sinned in the past and need to seek God's mercy and forgiveness with Jesus Christ as a part of their Initial Salvation. For the believer who has walked with Christ, repentance serves as continuing in the faith if they happen to stumble in their walk with the Lord. This continuing in the faith is merely a part of one's continual free will choice to access God's grace, and it is done by confessing individual sins. If not, then one does not believe 1 John 1:9, Proverbs 28:13, Psalm 51, etcetera.

In regard to 1 John 1:9, notice that - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9) is in contrast to - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:10)

You appear to take the popular, false "we must sin always" interpretation of 1 John 1:8. 1 John 1:10 addresses the person who claims they have never sinned, helping us properly understand the context of 1 John 1:8. Surely, we both agree that we have sinned as part of our old life, so we agree on 1 John 1:10.

But for some silly reason, you seem to rip 1 John 1:8 out of its context, beyond what 1 John 1:10 says, to defend the idea that Christians must declare they are always in some kind of sin in the present tense. 1 John 1:8 is saying the same thing as 1 John 1:10, but simply in the present tense. It refers to a person who denies the existence of sin and, by extension, its consequences (Which is death - See Romans 6:23).

You seem to misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory of every sin) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin, we are toast!"

The Holy Spirit will draw attention to any sin you have committed so that you will confess it to Christ. Why else are you to boldly come to the throne of grace and find mercy? In other words, if a person doesn’t have a “sin and still be saved” mindset, they will be attuned to the Holy Spirit regarding any sin in their life.

Also, confessing your sin to Jesus if you happen to sin (not that it is a foregone conclusion it will happen again) is merely a part of your faith. Everything in your Bible is the faith. But many today do not believe 1 John 1:9 plainly for what it says. So, they don’t have the faith to receive this verse as it is written. Instead, they twist it to align with their “sin and still be saved” theology because they either like to sin or they don’t believe the verses in the New Testament that teach they can overcome sin (see: 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1).

Who could actually write an exhaustive list of every sin they have ever committed or ever will commit?

When a person first comes to Christ, they obviously do not confess every sin from their past life. They simply ask the Lord to forgive them of their past life of sin, with the understanding that they will seek to overcome sin in their life. If this is not the case, then they are not truly sorry for their sin.

For example, if a man cheats on his wife and merely says he is sorry but continues to do so, it does not mean he is genuinely sorry. It also shows that he does not truly love his wife; he loves his sin more than he loves her. This is how I see many in Christianity today—they draw near to God with their lips, but their hearts are far from Him.

Sin is not only missing the mark

Yes, this is how the Greeks defined sin long before the New Testament came into being.
However, the philosophies embedded in the Greek language should not be inserted into our understanding of the Bible.

For example, when you pronounce the word "Jesus" in Greek, part of the pronunciation sounds like you are saying "Zeus." That does not mean we should claim that Zeus is part of the Bible in any way.

The reality is that sin grieves God. It’s not like losing in a game of sports, which ultimately does not mean anything. Sports are trivial games that do not truly affect a person's life, whether they choose to watch them or not. To say otherwise means you are just mindlessly quoting a dictionary without really thinking things through. Such a false concept of sin would insult the destructive nature of sin and how it grieves our Lord.

by what we do but also what we fail to do. (James 4:17)

James 4:17 is not some kind of statement suggesting it is hopeless for us to avoid sin, as you appear to be making it out to be.
Try reading the context, starting at verse 13 in the KJV sometime.

Believers "confess" (Greek - homologeó) speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness in contrast with saying that we have no sin or that we have not sinned. (1 John 1:8-10)

Just acknowledging you are a sinner is not going to help a person on Judgment Day. The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His Kingdom all who offend and do iniquity (which is sin), and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e., the Lake of Fire). See Matthew 13:41-42.

For the servant of sin will not abide in the house forever (i.e., the house of Christ forever) (see John 8:34-35). The Son abides forever, and thus we must abide in the Son in order to have life (see 1 John 5:12).

The way we know we are abiding in Christ is if we find that we are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3). The person who says they know the Lord but does not keep His commandments is a liar, and the truth (Jesus) is not in them (1 John 2:4). For Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6).

Also, these ungodly men in the book of Jude who have crept in unnoticed and are described as wells without water and who turn God's grace into a license for immorality are not Christians.

I never said they are real Christians. They think they are Christians, but they have snuck in among the real believers who do not believe you can sin and still be saved. Most Christians today believe you can sin and still be saved.

These ungodly men/pseudo Christians are further described as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit (vs. 19) In CONTRAST to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ (vs. 1).

Right, they are ungodly in their behavior because they think they can simply acknowledge sin before God and continue sinning on some level.