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[ChicanaRose]

@ChicanaRose

I’m making a similar dress. I shared it here. I made a long sleeve so I’ll have three options.

Love it!!

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What does Christian modesty mean for men and women in today’s culture?

To facilitate the discussion I’m requesting three things from respondents:

— Please share an opinion based on your gender first. This subject skews disproportionately towards women and I would like to see edifying comments for both sexes.

— Please provide biblical support for your opinion if applicable.

— And for the sake of clarity for everyone, please share a visible example of the modest attire you’re addressing. Please avoid posting immodest images or videos in deference to those with struggles.

Thank you. I look forward to your response.

For me, as a 'guy' and for a guy, modesty basically means NOT emulating the funny S.N.L fake American Express commercial featuring Chris Hemsworth ...

American Express Ad

As for my opinion about what all of this means for the ladies, I'll just concede that I think your p.o.v. is a great one and I wish more women (even Christian ones) shared your perspective.

Peace

 

[bèlla]

.

 

[AbbaLove]

— Please share an opinion based on your gender first.
— Please provide biblical support for your opinion if applicable.
— And for the sake of clarity for everyone, please share a visible example of the modest attire you’re addressing.

Here goes my (?biased?) male Messianic conservative opinion ...

First off i think you are still too fashion conscious based primarily on your two recent avatar photos and some of your posts in this thread. IMO, today's Christian women dress in attire more for what other women think ... than that of a man.

As a photographer i do admire your two recent upscale photo avatars that remind me of Richard Avedon's fashion photography ...

Think you would agree this Avedon photo is modest enough even for a fashion conscious orthodox Jewish woman with refined taste and good judgement.

It's my opinion that a woman should feel comfortable wearing the same modest clothing in a church (or synagogue) that she would also wear at a special public event without going overboard in attracting attention to herself.

For example during the time of Yeshua whether His mother or other Godly women (sisters Martha and Mary (or Mary Magdalene) they didn't shop until they dropped. What i'm alsp getting at is what you and many others may consider extreme swimwear modesty ... unless you're a Muslim woman ...

​

As you may know the Twin Cities has a large Somali population resulting in the recent election of the congresswoman Ilhan Omar.

As a member of two YMCA's i often see muslim women and little girls dressed in their modest fashionable Muslim attire. I've been in the large hottub whirlpool and witnessed a (liberated) Muslim woman get in the whirlpool dressed in the same full dress attire that she wears in public.

 

[AbbaLove]

Should have mentioned a little about Richard Avedon ...

Avedon was born in New York City to a Jewish family. His father, Jacob Israel Avedon, was a Russian-born immigrant who advanced from menial work to starting his own successful retail dress business on Fifth Avenue called Avedon's Fifth Avenue ...
​

Richard Avedon

As far a Bible verses to support my opinion think we can agree that Godly women
don't get caught up with fashionable dress to attract attention to themselves ...

Isaiah 3:16-24, Isaiah 61:10, 1 Timothy 2:9, 1 Peter 3:3-4
www.openbible.info/topics/wearing_jewelry​

 

[mama2one]

But in fairness to the ladies, my calling to fashion design is a factor.

our child is a preteen & already calling herself a designer
she learned to hand sew this past year & hasn't stopped since; she spent 4 hours straight on her day off from school Friday hand sewing a quilt patch purse with a zipper

comes up with her own ideas & hasn't asked for any help
was impressed that she hand sewed a zipper on
she likes art, also so she'll end up in some creative field

I'm not one to sew so no idea where she gets ideas
she asked husband to show her hand sewing, not me!

 

[bèlla]

.

 

[mama2one]

yes, we encourage child's interests
signed up for fall classes @ Joanns that she picked
thanks for the resource

 

[bèlla]

our child is a preteen & already calling herself a designer
she learned to hand sew this past year & hasn't stopped since; she spent 4 hours straight on her day off from school Friday hand sewing a quilt patch purse with a zipper

That’s wonderful! I hope you encourage her efforts. The fashion industry is underrepresented by Christians.

I'm not one to sew so no idea where she gets ideas
she asked husband to show her hand sewing, not me!

Bluprint would be a great resource for her. It covers many subjects including sewing and quilting. She could work through the classes in her spare time right from home.

 

[AbbaLove]

As a matter of fact, the image is reflecting stillness and surrender. But you overlooked it. And would never connect the two without an intimate knowledge of my person and mindset. I don’t choose pictures because they’re pretty.

Thank you for taking the time to compose such a thoughtful reply which exemplifies your refined taste for what's an important element in your livelihood. FWIW, my spirit is wanting to tell you that because of your refined tastes that the LORD will have just the perfect foods for your visual and taste enjoyment at HIS Banquet Table.

OK, have to admit that my male nature (no interest whatsoever in being feminized) didn't pickup on the feminine "stillness and surrender" of your two avatar images. Typical of fine art that can be interpreted different by different folk than what the artist intended--example being the Word of GOD).

FWIW, i don't capture digital composures of "pretty" things--rather beautiful, unique and visually interesting images.​

 

[bèlla]

.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

What is appropriate for one person may be unsuitable for another.

I believe this is very true. Your examples are cute and sweet but not necessarily my style. I like more of a bohemian look.

 

[bèlla]

I believe this is very true. Your examples are cute and sweet but not necessarily my style. I like more of a bohemian look.

There are many looks and the point of this thread is to communicate that lovingly. That’s a cute dress.

 

[Zachm531]

What does Christian modesty mean for men and women in today’s culture?

To facilitate the discussion I’m requesting three things from respondents:

— Please share an opinion based on your gender first. This subject skews disproportionately towards women and I would like to see edifying comments for both sexes.

— Please provide biblical support for your opinion if applicable.

— And for the sake of clarity for everyone, please share a visible example of the modest attire you’re addressing. Please avoid posting immodest images or videos in deference to those with struggles.

Thank you. I look forward to your response.

I believe that if you wear anything deliberately trying to have people lust after you, you are creating a stumbling block for them and causing them to sin. Anything that you wear on purpose to make the opposite sex lust after you or the same sex be jealous of you is against a biblical lifestyle and i believe that is how modesty should be determined

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I wear what I wear. I wear what allows me to feel comfortable and expressive, and if somebody feels it’s immodest, well, that’s their issue and not mine.

 

[bèlla]

.

 

[MyChainsAreGone]

Rebecca, I really liked your post.

I do have a follow-up I'd like you to expand on...

There was also the matter of the professional prostitutes dressing a certain way.

So these were the types of issue Paul was dealing with. He had to consider how Christians might set themselves apart from both looking like the professional prostitutes AND promoting the message that ALL are equal in Christ Jesus. So basically, don't encourage people to mistake you for a prostitute and even more importantly, don't go around flaunting all of your wealth just like you did before you converted. People should be able to visibly SEE a transformation in the lives of Christians.

On what basis are you basing your comments about "professional prostitutes"?

Undoubtedly, there were such women (and men?) in Paul's day, but I actually don't see any evidence that that was in Paul's mind while writing 1 Timothy 2:8-10.

The ONLY thing that I see in the passage relative to clothing has to do with the flaunting of wealth.

I honestly think that it's only in western culture and modern Christianity that we've added the "sexual" component to the passage... but as I read Paul's words, it's simply not there at all.

Is there something I'm missing?

Thanks.

 

[MyChainsAreGone]

That is what I thought I did not think I was not modest with it but I also know I have a worldly mind.

No, from what I read in your words, you do NOT have a "worldly mind." Those who called you "immodest" or said you were showing "too much skin" are the ones with the "worldly mind," for they have proven themselves incapable of viewing you as a whole person... instead of a collection of body parts, some of which they have deemed to be "sexual" and therefore "indecent" to allow to be seen. THAT is the worldly mindset... one which sexually objectifies your body.

 

[MyChainsAreGone]

I believe that if you wear anything deliberately trying to have people lust after you, you are creating a stumbling block for them and causing them to sin. Anything that you wear on purpose to make the opposite sex lust after you or the same sex be jealous of you is against a biblical lifestyle and i believe that is how modesty should be determined

I disagree with your application of the "stumbling block" teaching, because in Romans 14, Paul said that it was "causing to stumble" if someone sees you doing something and they join you in doing it, despite the fact that they think it's wrong. In other words, if a strong Christian woman wears a bikini, and her not-so-strong-Christian friend sees her and decides to wear a bikini, too... because her strong friend did (even though she kinda thinks it's wrong), then--and ONLY then--the strong Christian woman has caused her weaker friend to "stumble."

It is NEVER "causing to stumble" if someone has a sinful response to another person who is just living their lives. Remember, there were a LOT of Pharisees that had a sinful response to Jesus' actions... all the time. Yet it was not a sin of Jesus that they had that wrong and sinful response to Him.

But let me ask you about your measure of "intent" being the measure of "modesty." If that is so, then a woman could be modest in a bikini at the beach, since that sort of attire is accepted there. And she may go to the beach solely for the purpose of recreation and catching some rays... completely without any intention at all to create lustful responses in others.

And going further, on many beaches in the world, it is perfectly acceptable for women to go topless. So--again, by your measure--if a Christian goes topless in that setting (with no intent of inflaming lust), then she too would still be "modest."

For the record, I know that's probably not what you meant, but I would agree... that when someone intends to cause lust in others, there's a problem. But if not--and the context is such where it is appropriate--then it is NOT "immodest"... even if the women is topless.

 

[MyChainsAreGone]

I don't find showing cleavage or super-short hemlines as descent. I think 1 Timothy 2:9-10 still applies because of the part about being "respectable."

I believe that you would find it impossible to defend your position from Paul's words... he's not talking at all about "sexual" immodesty in that passage. That is a very modern notion, but it's not actually biblical.

The subjective application of one word is not a sound basis for a moral evaluation.