7th Trumpet Rapture?

[jerry kelso]

Since Arabs are also "Semitic" peoples your argument using that word falls apart.
God is not a racist. He does not care what kind of DNA you have.
Your doctrine claims that God does care what kind of DNA a person has.

The most important genealogy in the Bible is found in Matthew 1:1.
This fact is confirmed by the Apostle Paul in Galatians 3:16.
Any genealogy that comes after the one found in Matthew chapter 1, has no effect on how God views that person.
No person alive today has a relationship with God that depends on who their mother and father would be.
Every person alive today has a relationship with God based on their relationship with God's Son, as found in 1 John 2:22-23.

After the destruction of the temple in 70 AD many of the Jews who survived left the middle east.
Some of them went to Scotland.

I also have ancestors who came from Scotland.

God says that genealogy is not now to be considered in 1 Timothy 1:4.
You are the one claiming otherwise.

.

baberean2,

1. Why do you you twist whatI said ?
I ever have claimed genealogy had an advantage over anyone.
You are the one that was making a big deal out of somebody having an advantage over another in your question.

2. God is not a racist and he doesn’t care about DNA when it comes to salvation or the person themselves because he loves all his creation.

3. I never denied that Jews have gone to other countries. You missed the point.

4. The genealogy in Matthew 1:1 was Abraham and David. There were also gentiles in that genealogy to show Christ would die for the whole worold of Jews and Gentiles.
It was also about the KoH and KoG message to the Jews only Matthew 10:6-7.

5. You have twisted everything I said and that is pathetic.
Israel’s promises of the land and the throne are theirs not because of DNA but because God said so.

6. Do you think the Gentiles are going to be at the head of the nations? Do you think Gentiles will
rule over the 12 tribes of Israel? Do you think Gentiles are going to own the land of Israel? Do you think gentiles will have their capital in Israel and that it will be the Gentile capital of the Earth?
Do you think gentiles are going to administer the feasts? Do you think the Lord is Gentile and that he is going to rule out of a Gentile Mt. Zion? Jerry Kelso

 

[BABerean2]

baberean2,

1. Why do you you twist whatI said ?
I ever have claimed genealogy had an advantage over anyone.
You are the one that was making a big deal out of somebody having an advantage over another in your question.

2. God is not a racist and he doesn’t care about DNA when it comes to salvation or the person themselves because he loves all his creation.

3. I never denied that Jews have gone to other countries. You missed the point.

4. The genealogy in Matthew 1:1 was Abraham and David. There were also gentiles in that genealogy to show Christ would die for the whole worold of Jews and Gentiles.
It was also about the KoH and KoG message to the Jews only Matthew 10:6-7.

5. You have twisted everything I said and that is pathetic.
Israel’s promises of the land and the throne are theirs not because of DNA but because God said so.

6. Do you think the Gentiles are going to be at the head of the nations? Do you think Gentiles will
rule over the 12 tribes of Israel? Do you think Gentiles are going to own the land of Israel? Do you think gentiles will have their capital in Israel and that it will be the Gentile capital of the Earth?
Do you think gentiles are going to administer the feasts? Do you think the Lord is Gentile and that he is going to rule out of a Gentile Mt. Zion? Jerry Kelso

You are doing the same thing that Peter did when Paul had to correct him.
You are treating Jews and Gentiles differently.

Gal_2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

..............................................


Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

There will be no separation between Jews and Gentiles in the kingdom of God.
Peter learned that lesson from Paul.
When will you learn?

.

 

[Riberra]

As we can see that various churches are in full participation of those things that Jesus said they need to repent of and if they repent he will forgive them .
Some will repent and some may not , those that do not will be permitted into Jesus Kingdom .
However the scripture --
Rev 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Jesus is making it very very clear that the people who have kept HIS Word to keep on keeping on - to not stray and keep the faith - to fight the good fight - to continue to abide in Christ Jesus no matter what tribulation you may have had to endure whether it be heavy persecution of your faith or any other hardships people have endured.
Jesus will keep those people out from the hour of trial that will come upon the earth -the hour of temptation -
Those who have accepted Jesus as savoir Prior to the GT will not go through it -like it or not !

From the very first paragraph of the link you provide :
Revelation 3:10 Commentary - A Testimony of Jesus Christ

Revelation 3:10

Revelation 3:9 3.10.1. Earth Dwellers

to persevere
Perseverance is especially needed in the midst of adversity. Jesus said that it would be by patience that believers “possess your souls” (Luke Luke 21:16-19). Persevere is ὑπομονῆς [hypomonēs] , which may include the idea of expectation related to the promise to be kept from the hour:

Arndt and Gingrich hold that the word hupomone sometimes meant ‘(patient) expectation.’ They indicated that is its meaning in the expression ‘patience of Jesus Christ’ in Revelation Rev. 1:9+ and that perhaps that is its meaning in Revelation Rev. 3:10+. . . . One thing in favor of this view is Christ’s exclamation in Rev. Rev. 3:11+, ‘Behold I come quickly, hold that fast which thou hast.’1
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Read carefully:
NOTHING ABOUT A SNATCHING AWAY OUT OF THE EARTH ...
keep you from the hour of trial
[when greek word εκ [ek] is used as it is in Revelation 3:10 ----backed by Revelation 3:12 command to OVERCOME related to the hour of trial ...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

A large body of discussion attends this phrase. The debate centers on whether from (εκ [ek] ) here denotes out of or through. Is the promise to keep the church out of the trial or to preserve it through the trial? Proponents of the kept through view observe other passages where εκ [ek] can have this meaning.2 They also observe examples in Scripture where God’s people are protected in the midst of God’s judgment:

On the very same day Noah and Noah’s sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth, and Noah’s wife and the three wives of his sons with them, entered the ark. (Gen. Gen. 7:13)

Now the blood shall be a sign for you on the houses where you are. And when I see the blood, I will pass over you; and the plague shall not be on you to destroy you when I strike the land of Egypt. (Ex. Ex. 12:13)

Come, my people, enter your chambers, and shut your doors behind you; hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, until the indignation is past. For behold, the LORD comes out of His place to
punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; the earth will also disclose her blood, and will no more cover her slain. (Isa. Isa. 26:20-21)

“Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” . . . They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. (Rev. Rev. 7:3+; Rev. 9:4+)


REMEMBER THAT SATAN'S WRATH [REVELATION 12:17...Revelation 13] IS NOT THE WRATH OF GOD [Revelation 16] who will be poured out upon all those who will have worshiped the Beast and his image and have taken the mark.

 

[jerry kelso]

You are doing the same thing that Peter did when Paul had to correct him.
You are treating Jews and Gentiles differently.

Gal_2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

..............................................


Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

There will be no separation between Jews and Gentiles in the kingdom of God.
Peter learned that lesson from Paul.
When will you learn?

.

baberean2,

1. When will learn to quit falsely accuse me and learn the the truth.

2. There is no separation in the KoH between the saved.
There is differences in positions of authority.
Are you going to be mad at me if I have a different position of authority than you in the KoH reign? Are you going to be mad at me if I am head over a bigger city than you? Jerry Kelso

 

[seventysevens]

From the very first paragraph of the link you provide :
Revelation 3:10 Commentary - A Testimony of Jesus Christ
.

That type of reply is expected from those of you that do not trust in God to fulfill what he has declared
A mere 1/4 of the times Jesus and scripture tells flat out that if you believe that you will receive what you ask for in prayer you SHALL receive it , then Jesus flat out says to PRAY that you be worthy to ESCAPE the things that are coming

Matt 21
22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
Matt 18
19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven
Mark 11
24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
John 14
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 15
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Luke 21
36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

As some folks are saying there is WORK TO DO while they are not doing it just saying it to look holy
The mindset those of you that see it that way are not looking at what Jesus did for you and will do for you , rather that you focus on what you do for the Lord - which is opposite mindset that Jesus said to have
You are a doubting Thomas - you really don't believe that Jesus will do as he said he will
Now I see that you either did not read the article or understand it - what it does is examine each of the points of view and describe how it is either useful or not - if so how so , examining the pro and con of each view to explain in a comparative way , obviously those who see things as you do will not be open minded as you have closed the door on that - take a look at the highlights that you chose not to see !
They a

A key thing to remember is how your teaching will affect other people , we don't know how it will affect people we have not met- but a day in the future we will know by hearing if from the brethren themselves and we will be told by the Lord whether it was positive or negative
Jesus said, “I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken” (Matthew 12:36). The KJV translates “every empty word” as “every idle word”; the ESV says, “every careless word.” The Greek phrase is rema argos, meaning “careless or inactive or unprofitable words.” In context, Jesus is contrasting the “good things” within a good person with the “evil things” in the heart of an evil person. We are admonished to make the best use of our words, because words express what is in our hearts: “The mouth speaks what the heart is full of” (Matthew 12:34).
In Matthew 12:37, the significance of words is that they will be used to gauge a person’s spiritual condition in the judgment: “For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

You have freewill to believe whatever you prefer to believe - but it an unproductive waste of time to continue with this matter

 

[BABerean2]

baberean2,

1. When will learn to quit falsely accuse me and learn the the truth.

2. There is no separation in the KoH between the saved.
There is differences in positions of authority.
Are you going to be mad at me if I have a different position of authority than you in the KoH reign? Are you going to be mad at me if I am head over a bigger city than you? Jerry Kelso

Why would I be mad at you when the verse below proves that you are talking about something that will not exist?


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

 

[jerry kelso]

Why would I be mad at you when the verse below proves that you are talking about something that will not exist?


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

baberean2,

1. You are disengenous and are sidestepping the parallel that I made which you know you can’t answer.

2. Revelation 11:18 has nothing about Israel’s position in the KoH reign on earth.

3. Post #967 had at least 5 questions that are scriptural facts about Israel’s position of authority.
I put church in it’s place to see if you would go for it.
Since you wouldn’t answer it means that those scriptures are true about Israel’s position of authority in the KoH reign.
Of course, all you could say is that it not really going to happen.

4. You knew that if you were mad at me then you could not be mad at Israel for having the position of authority at the head of the nations and have the land and the throne etc.
You know you are skating and do not want to admit that Israel will be at the head of the nations etc.
How long will you Keep being deceptive in your posts? Your posts are not fair in exegesis. Jerry kelso

 

[jgr]

baberean2,

1. You are disengenous and are sidestepping the parallel that I made which you know you can’t answer.

2. Revelation 11:18 has nothing about Israel’s position in the KoH reign on earth.

3. Post #967 had at least 5 questions that are scriptural facts about Israel’s position of authority.
I put church in it’s place to see if you would go for it.
Since you wouldn’t answer it means that those scriptures are true about Israel’s position of authority in the KoH reign.
Of course, all you could say is that it not really going to happen.

4. You knew that if you were mad at me then you could not be mad at Israel for having the position of authority at the head of the nations and have the land and the throne etc.
You know you are skating and do not want to admit that Israel will be at the head of the nations etc.
How long will you Keep being deceptive in your posts? Your posts are not fair in exegesis. Jerry kelso

Jerry,

Despite repeated requests, you have never yet defined who Israel is. I've asked for a simple list like that of the Church's "faith, obedience" but it has not yet been forthcoming. Therefore, all of your references to "Israel" in the preceding post are unqualifiable, because it remains undefined.

Of course, the more fundamental reality is that whatever authority God decides will ultimately prevail, it is only His Church of the faithful and obedient who will wield it. Only the saints inhabit the Kingdom, which is the spiritual Kingdom that Christ has delivered to the Father.

Re. your artificial distinction between the KoG and KoH:

Matthew 19
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Jesus drew no distinction.

 

[jerry kelso]

Jerry,

Despite repeated requests, you have never yet defined who Israel is. I've asked for a simple list like that of the Church's "faith, obedience" but it has not yet been forthcoming. Therefore, all of your references to "Israel" in the preceding post are unqualifiable, because it remains undefined.

Of course, the more fundamental reality is that whatever authority God decides will ultimately prevail, it is only His Church of the faithful and obedient who will wield it. Only the saints inhabit the Kingdom, which is the spiritual Kingdom that Christ has delivered to the Father.

Re. your artificial distinction between the KoG and KoH:

Matthew 19
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Jesus drew no distinction.

jgr,

1. The KoH and the KoG both have physical and spiritual distinctions.
The KoH physical pertains only to the earth and the KoH reign Matthew 4:17.
The KoG physical is the whole universe as when God is all in all 1 Corinthians 15:28.

2. This physical earth is just a part of the Universe. This is why things of the physical earth can be said of the physical universe.
The earth cannot be called the physical universe in things such as eternal for the earth had a beginning Genesis 1:1.

4. The KoH and the KoG both have spiritual meanings.
The KoH contain spiritual things such as bad and good fish etc.
The KoG deals with salvation Matthew 6:33; Luke 17:20-21.
The Jews were told to seek the KoG for salvation not the KoH.
In the New Testament the KoG is still thespiritual aspect of salvation but the KoH is never mentioned.
The Jews had to have the KoG rule in their hearts to be eligible for the physical KoH reign on earth. That is why Jesus said, Repent for the Kingdom is at hand.

5. Israel-Gentiles-The Church are the three entities mentioned in the Bible.
Gentiles refer to the heathen.
Israel is the chosen nation through eternal covenants 2 Samuel 7:13-16; 1 Chronicles 28:1-8 to rule and reign at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4 and administer the feasts Zechariah 14 and civil laws Isaiah 2:2-4 with Christ out of Mt Zion
Israel are the inheritors of the land of Israel promised through Abraham Genesis 12-15, Matthew 5:5 and to their children’s children forever Ezekiel 37:16-28.
They are also inheritors of the throne through David forever 2 Samuel 13-16; 1 Chronicles 28:1-8; Isaiah 2:2-4; 9:6-7 etc.
Israel will be propagating the gospel in the millennial kingdom when they receive the KoH. They have to go through the time of Jacob’s trouble before the Repent and are reconciled of God Daniel 9:24.

6. The church are the propagators of the gospel today of Jews and Gentiles in one body of Christ Ephesians 2:14-15;3:3-6.
We are in rulership training now for the Kingdom and the universe 2 Timothy 2:12 Colossians 1:16.
The church will be raptured to heaven and is not mentioned in the tribulation but Israel is by prophecy and the earmarkings and plain scripture. Read the Old Testament prophets and Revelation.

7. The church is not mentioned even in the millennial kingdom or the New Heaven and the New Earth. They are the Lamb’s wife.

8. Israel and the church are two different entities physical with two different callings but are one in Christ spiritually.

9. There is no scripture that says every believer is under the umbrella of the church.
But if they were it wouldn’t make no difference because God has promised eternal convents for the rulership of the KoH reign on earth at the head of the nations etc. with Christ as the supreme ruler. All will be under the New Covenant. Jerry Kelso

 

[BABerean2]

jgr,

1. The KoH and the KoG both have physical and spiritual distinctions.
The KoH physical pertains only to the earth and the KoH reign Matthew 4:17.
The KoG physical is the whole universe as when God is all in all 1 Corinthians 15:28.

2. This physical earth is just a part of the Universe. This is why things of the physical earth can be said of the physical universe.
The earth cannot be called the physical universe in things such as eternal for the earth had a beginning Genesis 1:1.

4. The KoH and the KoG both have spiritual meanings.
The KoH contain spiritual things such as bad and good fish etc.
The KoG deals with salvation Matthew 6:33; Luke 17:20-21.
The Jews were told to seek the KoG for salvation not the KoH.
In the New Testament the KoG is still thespiritual aspect of salvation but the KoH is never mentioned.
The Jews had to have the KoG rule in their hearts to be eligible for the physical KoH reign on earth. That is why Jesus said, Repent for the Kingdom is at hand.

5. Israel-Gentiles-The Church are the three entities mentioned in the Bible.
Gentiles refer to the heathen.
Israel is the chosen nation through eternal covenants 2 Samuel 7:13-16; 1 Chronicles 28:1-8 to rule and reign at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4 and administer the feasts Zechariah 14 and civil laws Isaiah 2:2-4 with Christ out of Mt Zion
Israel are the inheritors of the land of Israel promised through Abraham Genesis 12-15, Matthew 5:5 and to their children’s children forever Ezekiel 37:16-28.
They are also inheritors of the throne through David forever 2 Samuel 13-16; 1 Chronicles 28:1-8; Isaiah 2:2-4; 9:6-7 etc.
Israel will be propagating the gospel in the millennial kingdom when they receive the KoH. They have to go through the time of Jacob’s trouble before the Repent and are reconciled of God Daniel 9:24.

6. The church are the propagators of the gospel today of Jews and Gentiles in one body of Christ Ephesians 2:14-15;3:3-6.
We are in rulership training now for the Kingdom and the universe 2 Timothy 2:12 Colossians 1:16.
The church will be raptured to heaven and is not mentioned in the tribulation but Israel is by prophecy and the earmarkings and plain scripture. Read the Old Testament prophets and Revelation.

7. The church is not mentioned even in the millennial kingdom or the New Heaven and the New Earth. They are the Lamb’s wife.

8. Israel and the church are two different entities physical with two different callings but are one in Christ spiritually.

9. There is no scripture that says every believer is under the umbrella of the church.
But if they were it wouldn’t make no difference because God has promised eternal convents for the rulership of the KoH reign on earth at the head of the nations etc. with Christ as the supreme ruler. All will be under the New Covenant. Jerry Kelso

JGR quoted two verses which completely destroy the Two Kingdoms doctrine, and it takes all of the above to try and convince us that the scripture does not really say what it says.

A person certainly has to have a great imagination to be a proponent of the Two Peoples of God/ Two Kingdoms doctrine.


Matthew 19
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

.

 

[jerry kelso]

JGR quoted two verses which completely destroy the Two Kingdoms doctrine, and it takes all of the above to try and convince us that the scripture does not really say what it says.

A person certainly has to have a great imagination to be a proponent of the Two Peoples of God/ Two Kingdoms doctrine.


Matthew 19
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

.

baberean2,

1. Sorry, but you don’t know what you are talking about.

2. You cherry pick the scriptures thinking that is the definitive answer when it is not.

3. You show me one scripture that says every believer and saint is under the umbrella of what is called the church during and after the tribulation and through the millennial kingdom and the New Heaven and the New Earth.
Jerry kelso

 

[BABerean2]

You show me one scripture that says every believer and saint is under the umbrella of what is called the church during and after the tribulation and through the millennial kingdom and the New Heaven and the New Earth.

OK.

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

.

 

[jgr]

1. The KoH and the KoG both have physical and spiritual distinctions.
The KoH physical pertains only to the earth and the KoH reign Matthew 4:17.
The KoG physical is the whole universe as when God is all in all 1 Corinthians 15:28.

Jerry,

Where/when/why/how do you dream this stuff up?
Matthew 4:17 has no reference to the earth.
1 Corinthians 15:28 has no reference to the kingdom.
As BAB2 has accurately observed, from a great imagination.

Christ used the two kingdoms interchangeably. So did the writers of the gospels.
Even the dispensationalish gotquestions.org says:

While some believe that the Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven are referring to different things, it is clear that both phrases are referring to the same thing. The phrase “kingdom of God” occurs 68 times in 10 different New Testament books, while “kingdom of heaven” occurs only 32 times, and only in the Gospel of Matthew. Based on Matthew’s exclusive use of the phrase and the Jewish nature of his Gospel, some interpreters have concluded that Matthew was writing concerning the millennial kingdom while the other New Testament authors were referring to the universal kingdom. However, a closer study of the use of the phrase reveals that this interpretation is in error.

Sheesh.

 

[jerry kelso]

OK.

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

.

baberean2,

1. The historical context is Jesus speaking to the lost sheep of Israel only. Matthew 10:6-7.

2. Jesus was referring to Ezekiel 34.
The shepherds of Israel were not seeking the lost or teaching them in Jesus Day and were scattering them.
Jesus is the true good shepherd and will bring the fold together as one under the one good shepherd. The Lord God will be their God and his servant David will be the prince.
It goes on to talk about the covenant of peace and other signs of the millennial kingdom.
Ezekiel 37:16-28 shows that Judah and Israel will become one stick.
David the servant shall be king over Israel and they all shall have one Shepherd which will be Jesus Christ and it is an everlasting covenant.
All Israel will be saved forever is why no man can pluck them out of the hand of the father.
This is the true historical context of Jesus speaking which will come to fruition at the end of the tribulation going into the millennial kingdom forever after into the era of the New Heaven and the New Earth.

3. You can fit your scenario of the church in it because Jesus was to die for all mankind.
However, the leaders got mad and said Jesus had a demon.
Why do you think they got mad? It couldn’t be because they thought he was talking about the Gentiles or the church because they knew nothing about the church or the mystery of the church. Even the early church didn’t know that till 7-10 years after the Day of Pentecost.
They were mad because they considered themselves the great shepherd and the ones who were in control. They were also mad because of Jesus implication of being deity because of his relationship with the Father.

4. You may think it is absurd but that is why you don’t fully understand the KoH and the KoG message to Israel only and why it is not a message to the church.
The true church is not backslidden and has never been trodden under the foot of men such as Israel for the gates of hell shall never prevail against the church.
So once again you are wrong. Jerry Kelso

 

[keras]

All Israel will be saved forever is why no man can pluck them out of the hand of the father.

All ethnic Israel will not be saved. Romans 9:27, Luke 19:27, plus many OT prophesies prove that.
Your error is in thinking that the Israel visible today is still the chosen of God. Wrong; they un-chose themselves, Matthew 27:25 and now it is every born again Christian, who belongs to the new nation of God's people. Matthew 21:43

With the rapture to heaven cult, the initial error is that of separating Israel and the Church, so they could still look for salvation to come to ethnic Israel, as a major tenet of their doctrine: Israel on earth, the Church in heaven. The pre-Trib rapture teaches removal to ensure survival from tribulation, but salvation has always been stated to redeem us from our fallen sinful state, in our earthly situation.

Acts 20:21 I know that when I am gone, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 2 Peter 2:1-3, 2 Timothy 4:3-4

The rapture idea is that God will “save us” from that which must occur – thus equating this supposed removal with salvation. After so many Christians saw the inadequacy and misappropriation of the verses used to promote Pre-Trib, the Post-Trib alternative was then built around surviving the tribulation – thus sustaining the illusion that survival is somehow related to salvation.
A strong delusion is mentioned in the New Testament: 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this reason God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

This delusion has people looking forward to the 2nd Coming (in the so called rapture to heaven, Pre, Mid, or Post) believing in a rapture removal. The reality is, we experience His glorious salvation when we enter in to the blessed assurance that Christ’s Death means the penalty for our sin has been paid because of His sacrifice on the cross. Our salvation was assured at the first coming, not the second. Ever since Jesus came, believers must trust in Him for their salvation and for their protection during the testing times to come. Isaiah 43:2, Psalms 31:23-24

And if the Lord does not save us, just like as has happened to the millions of martyrs in the last 2 centuries, then we must die trusting in His promise of resurrection. Revelation 12:11, Revelation 13:10 Our souls will be kept under the heavenly Altar, Revelation 6:9-11, and Jesus will bring them with Him at His Return, then bring us to life again, to reign with Him for 1000 years. Revelation 20:4
Jesus said: Take care that you be not deceived... Seems that a lot of people have been rather careless!

 

[jerry kelso]

Jerry,

Where/when/why/how do you dream this stuff up?
Matthew 4:17 has no reference to the earth.
1 Corinthians 15:28 has no reference to the kingdom.
As BAB2 has accurately observed, from a great imagination.

Christ used the two kingdoms interchangeably. So did the writers of the gospels.
Even the dispensationalish gotquestions.org says:

While some believe that the Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven are referring to different things, it is clear that both phrases are referring to the same thing. The phrase “kingdom of God” occurs 68 times in 10 different New Testament books, while “kingdom of heaven” occurs only 32 times, and only in the Gospel of Matthew. Based on Matthew’s exclusive use of the phrase and the Jewish nature of his Gospel, some interpreters have concluded that Matthew was writing concerning the millennial kingdom while the other New Testament authors were referring to the universal kingdom. However, a closer study of the use of the phrase reveals that this interpretation is in error.

Sheesh.

jgr,

Sorry to bust your bubble but you are wrong.

1. You don’t understand the big picture.

2. The similarities which I mentioned are because the earth is a part of the universe.

3. You didn’t debunk the fact that they were never told to seek the KoH for salvation, but they were to seek the KoG which was not an outward show but the inward work of salvation.

4. The KoH has a beginning Genesis 1:1, but not the KoG.
The KoH has Jesus as King Revelation 19:16 and the KoG has God as it’s king 1 Corinthians 15:28.
The KoH is in the future Daniel 2:44-45; 7:13-14, 18, 27.
The KoG is now Matthew 6:33; John3:1-5; Roman’s 14:17.
Flesh and blood does inherit the KoH, for it is is for earthly natural people ( Psalm 37:11; Matthew 5:5; Psalm 138:4; Isaiah 60:3; 10-11; 62:2; Ezekiel 43:7; Daniel 7:18, 27; Luke 1:32-35; Revelation 21:23-26.
The KoG is not inherited by flesh and blood, but by glorified saints who become heir of all things ( Roman’s 8:14-17; 1 Corinthians 4:20; 6:9-10; Galatians 5:21; Ephesians 5:5; Colossians 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:12; 2 Thessalonians 1:5; Hebrews 1:1-2; 12:28; 2 Peter 1:11).
This is just a few differences and you can read the rest in Dake’s God’s Plan For Man 111. General contrasts between the two terms Pgs. 559-560.
Are you going to believe God and his word or what a few interpreters concluded? I am sure you’ll probably side with the minority of interpreters. Jerry kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

All ethnic Israel will not be saved. Romans 9:27, Luke 19:27, plus many OT prophesies prove that.
Your error is in thinking that the Israel visible today is still the chosen of God. Wrong; they un-chose themselves, Matthew 27:25 and now it is every born again Christian, who belongs to the new nation of God's people. Matthew 21:43

With the rapture to heaven cult, the initial error is that of separating Israel and the Church, so they could still look for salvation to come to ethnic Israel, as a major tenet of their doctrine: Israel on earth, the Church in heaven. The pre-Trib rapture teaches removal to ensure survival from tribulation, but salvation has always been stated to redeem us from our fallen sinful state, in our earthly situation.

Acts 20:21 I know that when I am gone, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 2 Peter 2:1-3, 2 Timothy 4:3-4

The rapture idea is that God will “save us” from that which must occur – thus equating this supposed removal with salvation. After so many Christians saw the inadequacy and misappropriation of the verses used to promote Pre-Trib, the Post-Trib alternative was then built around surviving the tribulation – thus sustaining the illusion that survival is somehow related to salvation.
A strong delusion is mentioned in the New Testament: 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this reason God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

This delusion has people looking forward to the 2nd Coming (in the so called rapture to heaven, Pre, Mid, or Post) believing in a rapture removal. The reality is, we experience His glorious salvation when we enter in to the blessed assurance that Christ’s Death means the penalty for our sin has been paid because of His sacrifice on the cross. Our salvation was assured at the first coming, not the second. Ever since Jesus came, believers must trust in Him for their salvation and for their protection during the testing times to come. Isaiah 43:2, Psalms 31:23-24

And if the Lord does not save us, just like as has happened to the millions of martyrs in the last 2 centuries, then we must die trusting in His promise of resurrection. Revelation 12:11, Revelation 13:10 Our souls will be kept under the heavenly Altar, Revelation 6:9-11, and Jesus will bring them with Him at His Return, then bring us to life again, to reign with Him for 1000 years. Revelation 20:4
Jesus said: Take care that you be not deceived... Seems that a lot of people have been rather careless!

Keras,

1. Sorry, but your hermeneutical view is way off.

2. Roman’s 11:25 says All Israel will be saved.
Romans 9:27 is true that a remnant will be saved.
Like 19:27 is true also just like like Zechariah 13:8-9.
There is also those of the main body of Israel who is preserved in the wilderness through the time of Jacob’s trouble Revelation 12:6, 14-17.
Hebrews 8:12 shows the covenant in the last days with the house of Israel and the House of Judah. Read closer at verses 10-12.

3. Matthew 27:25 and 21:43 are true but not permanently. Romans 11:29 Their gifts and callings are without repentance.
God promised eternal covenants of Abraham and David concerning the land of Israel and the throne in Israel. They are unconditional covenants and the only condition Is to come back into covenant spiritually and they will.
That was all promised before there rejection and cannot be changed.
Matthew 23:37-39 is about the rejection and Jesus said in verse 38; Behold your House is left desolate. Verse 39; For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth till he shall say Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Isaiah 2:2-4;9:6-7; Ezekiel 37:16:28 etc. shows that Israel will have their kingdom promises fulfilled.

4. Isaiah 43:2 is talking about the nation of Israel not the church.

5. Enoch was translated before Noah’s flood as a type of the church being raptured with the dead in Christ as in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.
Matthew 24:37-39 talks about the second coming as the the days of Noah and them drinking and eating and given in marriage until the flood took them away.
Vs. 40-41 talks about the two in the field and the other left.
The one left is the one who stays alive.
In the rapture you want to be taken.

6. The church is not mentioned in the tribulation and only the dead will be resurrected in the first resurrection of the last day for all will be martyrs who didn’t take the mark of the beast etc. Revelation 15:1-2;20:4-6.

7. The first coming our salvation for the souls of mankind came.
The second coming is about the renovation of the earth Read Joel 2 and the restoration of Israel Ezekiel 37; Matthew 24 and the rulership of the Kingdom and it’s purpose 1 Corinthians 15:24:28; Revelation 20:4.

8. We are not to be deceived by the enemy of darkness for we are children of the light read 1 Thessalonians 5.
We are also to occupy till he comes but we are not destined for the wrath of God which is the 7 vials on the beast kingdom Revelation 16:2.
The church will be raptured in Revelation 4:1 and are never mentioned on earth for they are with the Lamb who is not on earth during the tribulation.
All saints including the tribulation saints will be at the marriage of the lamb Revelation 19:7-10. Verse 11 we come out of Heaven with the King of Kings and Lord of Lords Revelation 19:16.

9. Revelation 7:3-14; John is shown the tribulation saints but he didn’t know who they were. He knew it wasn’t the church otherwise he would have known them.
The time of Jacob’s trouble is about Israel not the church Jeremiah 30:7. Jerry Kelso

 

[jgr]

Are you going to believe God and his word or what a few interpreters concluded? I am sure you’ll probably side with the minority of interpreters.

Jerry,

Are you going to believe Jesus and the writers of the Gospels, or a cabal of dispensational modernists?

You've already decided.

 

[keras]

Matthew 27:25 and 21:43 are true but not permanently. Romans 11:29 Their gifts and callings are without repentance.
God promised eternal covenants of Abraham and David concerning the land of Israel and the throne in Israel. They are unconditional covenants and the only condition Is to come back into covenant spiritually and they will.
That was all promised before there rejection and cannot be changed.
Matthew 23:37-39 is about the rejection and Jesus said in verse 38; Behold your House is left desolate. Verse 39; For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth till he shall say Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Isaiah 2:2-4;9:6-7; Ezekiel 37:16:28 etc. shows that Israel will have their kingdom promises fulfilled.

This correct to a degree, in that God will fulfil His promises to the Patriarchs, for their descendants to occupy all of the holy Land.
The question is, Who is Israel now?
Is it those who currently occupy a small part of the Land? The people there are 99% in apostasy and many prophesies tell of their Judgement and virtual total demise. Ezekiel 21:1-7
Jesus said; Those who call themselves Jews, but are not; they are of the synagogue of Satan. Revelation 2:9b
No: we are plainly told that the real Jew is one who is circumcised of the heart.

The truth is that it will be every faithful Christian who will go to and live in all of the holy land. Isaiah 66:18b-21, Revelation 5:9-10
The descendants of the Patriarchs BY FAITH.

 

[BABerean2]

4. You may think it is absurd but that is why you don’t fully understand the KoH and the KoG message to Israel only and why it is not a message to the church.

Matthew 19
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Based on the words of Christ found above, the claim that the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are different is "absurd".
Any doctrine built upon that claim would also have to be "absurd".

In the video below Pastor John Otis deals with the claim you are building your doctrine upon.


Great Errors in Dispensational Eschatology: Pastor John Otis

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