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[ChristsSoldier115]

I find it ironic that some folks who would blanch at the thought they were engaged in "vain repetition" purchase books called "Prayer That Availeth Much", which are Scripture-based prayers for various situations.
The older I get, the more I find the existence of such things comforting. Sometimes I get tonguetied when called upon to "close in prayer". While I manage to avoid the "Just Cul-de-sac"..."Lord, we just want to just praise you because you're just Lord, and just bless..."...it's a bit difficult to avoid slipping into trite cliches no matter how much we try to avoid "vain repetitions".

Honestly, I think we pray a lot informally. I know I do.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Honestly, I think we pray a lot informally. I know I do.

We all do, I hope, but I am going to make more room in my life for prayers that were prayed by godly brothers who've gone before me.

 

[tz620q]

We all do, I hope, but I am going to make more room in my life for prayers that were prayed by godly brothers who've gone before me.

Our church recently had a bible study and one of the themes we decided to emphasize as facilitators of this study was community. The thought was that a bible study table should form a small community within the larger study. To help form this idea of community, I decided to start our facilitators meetings with a communal prayer, instead of the normal extemporaneous prayer (nothing wrong with that). So each week, I delved back in history and selected a prayer that dealt with the subject matter of the study that week. Then I printed this prayer out and handed it to the facilitators at the start of the meeting. We would then say the prayer together. Just this simple act of chanting a prayer together draws people towards God and towards each other. And you are right, there are so many rich prayers out there to use.

May God give us all a lifetime long enough to praise him with our fellow Christians.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Our church recently had a bible study and one of the themes we decided to emphasize as facilitators of this study was community. The thought was that a bible study table should form a small community within the larger study. To help form this idea of community, I decided to start our facilitators meetings with a communal prayer, instead of the normal extemporaneous prayer (nothing wrong with that). So each week, I delved back in history and selected a prayer that dealt with the subject matter of the study that week. Then I printed this prayer out and handed it to the facilitators at the start of the meeting. We would then say the prayer together. Just this simple act of chanting a prayer together draws people towards God and towards each other. And you are right, there are so many rich prayers out there to use.

May God give us all a lifetime long enough to praise him with our fellow Christians.

I think you've touched on an aspect of using a pre-written prayer that I've overlooked: community. If there is a time in my worship service in which we are united it's when we recite the Lord's Prayer. I suppose that would be the same using other prayers thoughtfully chosen.

 

[dms1972]

Many churches do not permit it or would be shocked to even hear of someone writing out a prayer or praying from a prayer book. It's very likely that the Me, Jesus & My Bible folks would be among those who would feel that way.

For much of evangelicalism, the Christian life is lived within one's heart. There is no connection to the church of the past 2,000 years, or even the church of last week, for that matter. Self-expression is the highest good, so praying "someone elses" prayer flies in the face of that.

I don't think it need be inauthentic at all to use written prayers - I use some by Jeremy Taylor in quiet times. But an emphasis on 'authenticity' is something that seems to have become a buzzword, whereas it used to be (and I am sure still is in a good few churches) Let us worship God in Spirit and in Truth, which is part of the preface to acts of liturgical worship, often with a prayer for assistance. But if it becomes a case of sitting on tradition its not good.

The other extreme is when I have been a few times to evangelical churches were they had become feelings oriented, and I almost at times came back out an agnostic.

So yeah I think using a prayerbook together with some extemporaneous prayer is a great combination.

I agree that some church services have little continuity with Historic Christianity, sometimes its due to the influence of Bultmann in theology, but moreso in neo-liberal churches, than evangelical.

A tendency to subjectivism is really serious. Its more likely that nearly dead but at least biblically taught congregation may revive when it pleases God's Spirit to move, than one sunk in subjectivism.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

The other extreme is when I have been a few times to evangelical churches were they had become feelings oriented, and I almost at times came back out an agnostic.

I couldn't agree more. And they wonder why their children leave the church. . .

A tendency to subjectivism is really serious. Its more likely that nearly dead but at least biblically taught congregation may revive when it pleases God's Spirit to move, than one sunk in subjectivism.

Nearly ever thread I've started here is a pushback against subjectivism, so I'm with you. It's the plague of the modern church, not just in the US.

 

[dms1972]

CS Lewis has some good essays including one called the Poison of Subjectivism.

We must remember also christianity isn't wholly objectivist either, as though everything to do with salvation happens outside us, that is the other side of the error. It is objective-subjective.

FB Meyer has written on it in Fact, Faith, Feeling

http://www.ccel.org/m/meyer/guidance/guidance.htm

There really needs to be as well as Biblical Teaching, teaching on the dangers of an experience orientation, of always seeking experiences. Leanne Payne who recently passed away has been very good in her books, and at Pastoral Care Schools on that explaining the Practice of the Presence of God in contrast to merely having a sense of the Presence of God. I hardly have heard much said in the churches I have been to on that. But its not mysticism.

As modern christians many of us suffer a split that needs healed because of the influence of the philosophy of Rene Descartes and Immanuel Kant.

 

[dms1972]

I once helped out with a church News-letter and thought i would slip a prayer of Jeremy Taylor into it, someone thought it was a poem. I suppose it was not unlike a poem.

O eternal God who from all eternity dost behold and love thy own glories and perfections infinite, and hast created me to do the work of God after the manner of men and to serve thee in this generation and according to my capacities.

Give me thy grace that I may be a curious and prudent spender of my time so as I may best prevent or resist all temptation and be profitable to the christian commonwealth and by discharging all my duty may glorify thy Name.

Take from me all slothfulness and give me a diligent and an active spirit and wisdom to choose my employment; that I may do works proportionable to my person and to the dignity of a christian and may fill up all the spaces of my time with actions of religion and charity; that when the devil assaults me he may not find me idle; and my dearest Lord at his sudden coming, may find me busy in lawful, necessary, and pious actions; improving my talent entrusted to me by thee my Lord; that I may enter into the joy of my Lord, to partake of his eternal felicities, even for thy mercy's sake, and for my dearest Saviour's sake. Amen

 

[Root of Jesse]

Many churches do not permit it or would be shocked to even hear of someone writing out a prayer or praying from a prayer book. It's very likely that the Me, Jesus & My Bible folks would be among those who would feel that way.

For much of evangelicalism, the Christian life is lived within one's heart. There is no connection to the church of the past 2,000 years, or even the church of last week, for that matter. Self-expression is the highest good, so praying "someone elses" prayer flies in the face of that.

If there's no connection to the church of the past 2000 years, then there's no connection to Christ.
Regarding prayer, if you mindlessly recite anything, you don't really mean it, in my opinion. So you better know what the prayer says, if you're going to read it, or recite it. And lots of people do mindlessly recite things. The Pledge of Allegiance, for example, is often mindlessly recited, as is the Star Spangled Banner and God Bless America. But if you really dive into the meaning...and have studied it and know what it means to you, then it's got veritas.

 

[sculleywr]

During a worship service, is it inauthentic to use a prayer that you wrote beforehand or someone else wrote 1,000 years ago?

Praying a recited prayer is not inauthentic if it is prayed with compunction. If one truly means what they are praying, it matters not whether they thought it up or whether another wrote it, same as singing a song is not worship for only the writer, but for all who partake in the song with true desire to worship.

 

[JCFantasy23]

It can be authentic as long as the person takes care to mean it, not just read a script. I think there is much power in reciting the Lord's Prayer and group prayer in church. Most of the pre-written prayers I've tried feel flat when I'm praying with them, I prefer personal and unscripted for that reason.

 

[dms1972]

Even when praying in our own words, this doesn't mean one always will feel a lot, everyone has slightly different emotional tone. Some people with depression don't feel a lot when they pray (suffering from depression that is something I know about). Other times a person may go through a dryness in prayer which doesn't mean prayerlessness, but just no sensible consolations during prayer. God wants to see if someone will press on through the dry time, or if they only were seeking emotional thrills.

Written prayers such as I use help me to think of who God is, as with Jeremy Taylor's God-centred prayers.

 

[Strong in Him]

During a worship service, is it inauthentic to use a prayer that you wrote beforehand or someone else wrote 1,000 years ago?

No.

 

[Optimax]

During a worship service, is it inauthentic to use a prayer that you wrote beforehand or someone else wrote 1,000 years ago?

There are two prayers that Paul wrote recorded in Ephesians that are the most powerful prayer that can be prayed for a congregation or individual Christian(born again/saved person, Rom 10:9).

 

[Goodbook]

During a worship service, is it inauthentic to use a prayer that you wrote beforehand or someone else wrote 1,000 years ago?

No. Do you have a problem with it?
why do you ask? Sometimes some people have to write them down so others can pray them together.

 

[actionsub]

No. Do you have a problem with it?
why do you ask? Sometimes some people have to write them down so others can pray them together.

I tend to like pre-written prayers because it tends to avoid the "just" prayers..."Lord we just want to just thank you for our just gathering together to just study your Word and Lord just..."

 

[bbbbbbb]

I tend to like pre-written prayers because it tends to avoid the "just" prayers..."Lord we just want to just thank you for our just gathering together to just study your Word and Lord just..."

A similar criticism might be made of starchy pre-written prayers - "Most blessed God, Thou Who Art the Ineffably Sublime Creator and Sustainer of the Universe, Who Condescendest to Thy Lowly, Humble Servants . . ."

 

[Strong in Him]

A similar criticism might be made of starchy pre-written prayers - "Most blessed God, Thou Who Art the Ineffably Sublime Creator and Sustainer of the Universe, Who Condescendest to Thy Lowly, Humble Servants . . ."

That's a generalisation; they aren't all like that.
I sometimes wish that more prayers started with the focus on God and who he is, and reminded us that we need his mercy - rather than the "God is my best mate" approach.
Jesus died so that we can be reconciled to, and be friends with, God - true. But it is also true that he is holy, awesome, majestic and we shouldn't take him for granted.

 

[bbbbbbb]

That's a generalisation; they aren't all like that.
I sometimes wish that more prayers started with the focus on God and who he is, and reminded us that we need his mercy - rather than the "God is my best mate" approach.
Jesus died so that we can be reconciled to, and be friends with, God - true. But it is also true that he is holy, awesome, majestic and we shouldn't take him for granted.

Yes, that is a stereotype as was yours. Sloppy prayers can be both extemporaneous as well as pre-written. What matters most is the intent of the heart, not the smoothness of expression.

 

[Strong in Him]

Yes, that is a stereotype as was yours.

It wasn't my post; I just agreed with it. And yes, that was over the top too.

Sloppy prayers can be both extemporaneous as well as pre-written. What matters most is the intent of the heart, not the smoothness of expression.

Agreed.