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Featured 70th Week - It Is Still Pending

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Davy, Aug 27, 2018.

  1. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is every reason, and in fact compelling necessity, for the events of 70 AD to be referenced in conjunction with those of the 70th week, because the two are inextricably associated. The 70th week saw Christ's establishment of His New Will and Testament, and its confirmation in His death at Calvary (Daniel 9:27, Matthew 26:28). This necessitated the events of 70 AD -- the death and destruction of all that was associated with the old will and testament -- because two wills and testaments cannot be in concurrent existence. The death of Christ, the Divine Testator, established the New and better Will and Testament, replacing the old with the New. (Hebrews 9:15-17; 8:6; 10:9).

    The interval of a generation between the end of the 70th week, and 70 AD, represented the final opportunity which God in His mercy granted His unbelieving people to turn to Him. Lamentably, few did.

    The 70th week, and 70 AD, are inseparably related. That relationship represents another incontrovertible reason why the 70th week cannot be disembodied, and why there is thus no gap within the 70 weeks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
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  2. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are forgetting about the idea of TYPES which God uses in His Word.

    For example, in Revelation 14 & 18 at the destruction of the Babylon harlot city, it is said, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen." That was first said word for word in Isaiah 21 about the fall of the historical Babylon. Why would our Lord Jesus use that again in Revelation? and it's obviously used as a TYPE for the old city of Babylon, but applied to a different time and different place.

    Likewise with the prince that would come to destroy the city and sanctuary. It was historically the Roman general Titus and his army. But for the time after Titus it is about the coming Antichrist at the end of this world.

    Titus (one of "many antichrists") - "and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;"

    The Antichrist they heard shall come; at the end - "and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined." 27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week...".


    I believe you also are confused about Daniel 11. It is about the final Antichrist at the very end of this world. Antiochus IV served as the blueprint, and the fact that Antiochus did not completely fulfill that, but almost did, is another example of God using types in His Word. The transgression of desolation of Dan.8 is the same event as the placing of the abomination in the sanctuary of Dan.11. Both are about the ending of the daily sacrifices and desolating the sanctuary.
     
  3. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well yes, the 2 Thess.2 false one is directly related, as I showed from Scripture.

    The one doing the great signs and wonders to deceive is the same false one to come that Jesus warned of in Matt.24 and in Rev.13. Only some false doctrine of men you're holding to instead would block your mind from realizing this connection.
     
  4. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And God in Isaiah 10 called "the Assyrian" the rod of His anger too, but that didn't mean God is who did what the Assyrian did to God's people. Likewise in Joel 2:25, God calls the locust army He sends upon His people, "My great army", but that doesn't mean God was the locusts doing the attacking upon His people.

    So regardless that our Lord Jesus had already pronounced sentence upon Jerusalem and the rebellious Jews at His 1st coming, it doesn't mean He was the one who destroyed the city and sanctuary, for Titus is who did it, and you cannot omit Titus and his army from the act.
     
  5. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The problem is, the gap between Daniel's 69th and 70th week is not found in the bible. And to place it there, denies that Jesus fulfilled the 70th week, being crucified in the middle of it as foretold.

    If you can place a gap there, you can make scripture say whatever you want it to say.
     
  6. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    20th year of Asteiages (Artaxerxes, which is a title like Pharaoh or Czar). Issued the command to restore and build Jerusalem to Nehemiah in the 20th year of his reign (Nehemiah 2).
     
  7. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't see 30 A.D. being of the 70th week any more than 29 A.D. would be. Regardless of whether you want to say Jesus was crucified in the year 30, 31, 32, or 33 A.D., the ending of the 69th week with the cross would still be the same end of the 69th week per the prophecy.
     
  8. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's simple for me to reject any idea that it's about Jesus with the destroying of the city and sanctuary and thereafter, because Jesus did not come riding upon a horse commanding the Roman army that destroyed Jerusalem, Titus did. And Jesus made no 7 year covenant and then broke it in the middle of the 7 years, nor did Jesus setup an idol abomination in the sanctuary making it desolate, which is... what the Daniel 11 Scripture regarding the "vile person" is about.

    It's really simple for me, that ain't our Lord Jesus Christ. I actually cannot understand how someone who claimed to believe on Jesus Christ as The Savior could assign Him doing those things. It's very close to blaspheme in my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  9. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Doesn't change the historical fact that the Roman general Titus and his army destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D., thus fulfilling the Dan.9:26 prophecy of the prince to come that shall destroy the city and sanctuary.

    You asked this:



    That's like asking me where is the Daniel 9:25 command to restore and build issued again. Well, there is no such repeat in the Book of Daniel. But do you really need it?...

    Matt 24:15
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
    KJV

    Dan 11:31
    31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
    KJV

    Rev 11:1-2
    11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

    2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
    KJV


    Self explanatory really.
     
  10. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Easy. Go back and read my posts about the 3 time periods given in Dan.9:25-27.
     
  11. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Those often forget Nehemiah 2, which was the 20th year of Artaxerxes' reign - 454 B.C.
     
  12. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I know some struggle with symbols and allegories in God's Word. I think we all have that struggle at times.

    The Daniel 11 prophecy about the "vile person" is what the Daniel 9:27 "one week" is about. The "league" the "vile person" makes is the covenant of 7 years of Dan.9:27.

    It's the "vile person" who causes the sacrifices to stop, and has the abomination placed in the sanctuary, causing it to be desolated. Antiochus IV served as a blueprint pattern for it, but Jesus pointed to it happening in the future while Antiochus had long been dead.

    So I don't think it takes much common sense to understand the prophecy is about our future still, because not since 170 B.C. when Antiochus IV did that has there ever been one to do that in Jerusalem again. There hasn't even been a standing Jewish temple since 70 A.D. to make it possible for that to happen yet. The Romans in 70 A.D. certainly did not fulfill it, because the temple burned before they could get control of it.

    And really, I think that's what it comes down to with some folks who don't think it's meant for the very end of this world, simply because they don't yet see a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem today. But for others who deny, I think they definitely are on a political agenda that God is allowing so as many as will, will be deceived when the Antichrist shows up to build it.
     
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
    Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


    Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
    Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.



    The Jews of Jesus day understood well his reference to the abomination of desolation in Matthew's Gospel, because they celebrated Hanukkah every year (John 10:22).

    Modern Christians could understand the verse if they would accept the parallel account in Luke's Gospel, instead of ignoring it, or explaining it away to make their man-made doctrines work.


    ......................................................................

    From "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus, Book 12, chapter 7

    "6. When therefore the generals of Antiochus's armies had been beaten so often, Judas assembled the people together, and told them, that after these many victories which God had given them, they ought to go up to Jerusalem, and purify the temple, and offer the appointed sacrifices. But as soon as he, with the whole multitude, was come to Jerusalem, and found the temple deserted, and its gates burnt down, and plants growing in the temple of their own accord, on account of its desertion, he and those that were with him began to lament, and were quite confounded at the sight of the temple; so he chose out some of his soldiers, and gave them order to fight against those guards that were in the citadel, until he should have purified the temple. When therefore he had carefully purged it, and had brought in new vessels, the candlestick, the table [of shew-bread], and the altar [of incense], which were made of gold, he hung up the veils at the gates, and added doors to them. He also took down the altar [of burnt-offering], and built a new one of stones that he gathered together, and not of such as were hewn with iron tools. So on the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, which the Macedonians call Apeliens, they lighted the lamps that were on the candlestick, and offered incense upon the altar [of incense], and laid the loaves upon the table [of shew-bread], and offered burnt-offerings upon the new altar [of burnt-offering]. Now it so fell out, that these things were done on the very same day on which their Divine worship had fallen off, and was reduced to a profane and common use, after three years' time; for so it was, that the temple was made desolate by Antiochus, and so continued for three years. This desolation happened to the temple in the hundred forty and fifth year, on the twenty-fifth day of the month Apeliens, and on the hundred fifty and third olympiad: but it was dedicated anew, on the same day, the twenty-fifth of the month Apeliens, on the hundred and forty-eighth year, and on the hundred and fifty-fourth olympiad. And this desolation came to pass according to the prophecy of Daniel, which was given four hundred and eight years before; for he declared that the Macedonians would dissolve that worship [for some time].

    7. Now Judas celebrated the festival of the restoration of the sacrifices of the temple for eight days, and omitted no sort of pleasures thereon; but he feasted them upon very rich and splendid sacrifices; and he honored God, and delighted them by hymns and psalms. Nay, they were so very glad at the revival of their customs, when, after a long time of intermission, they unexpectedly had regained the freedom of their worship, that they made it a law for their posterity, that they should keep a festival, on account of the restoration of their temple worship, for eight days. And from that time to this we celebrate this festival, and call it Lights. I suppose the reason was, because this liberty beyond our hopes appeared to us; and that thence was the name given to that festival. Judas also rebuilt the walls round about the city, and reared towers of great height against the incursions of enemies, and set guards therein. He also fortified the city Bethsura, that it might serve as a citadel against any distresses that might come from our enemies. "


    Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
    Josephus confirms it as a historical fact.


    John 10:22 is a reference to the celebration of Hanukkah each year by the Jews of Jesus time.


    The Book of Matthew was addressed mainly to a Jewish audience. Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would happen during 70 AD. Not only did Antiochus desecrate the temple, but he also attacked the city killing thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices. The temple sacrifices would also stop in 70 AD, due to the destruction of the temple. Based on John 10:22, the Jews were well aware of this historical fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Luke’s Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.


    Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are clearly parallel accounts, because we have the exact same warning to flee from Judea to the mountains in the second verse of each Gospel.

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  14. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    I doesn't change what fact? I agreed with you that Daniel 9:26 (b) is about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

    Correct, I did ask this: "Where does the prophecy specifically mention it being rebuilt a 2nd time after it's prophecied destruction in 70 ad?"

    Jerusalem and the temple were sieged and destroyed once by Babylon.
    In Daniel 9:25, the angel gives details about Jerusalem being rebuilt after its destruction by Babylon, which would take 7"sevens" or around 49 years

    Jerusalem and temple were sieged and destroyed a 2nd time by Rome (Daniel 9:26b)
    If Daniel 9:27 is about another temple that is built after its destruction by Rome, where does the angel give the details about the temple and Jerusalem being rebuilt a 2nd time?

    This is clearly about Antiochus. When Antiochus went to invade Eygpt (the south), Rome opposed him, so he and his armies left. Many Jews had thought Antiochus had died in the Battle of Egypt, so some began to worship according to Law. When Antiochus returned to Judea and saw them worshiping again according to the Law, he was furious, and that's when he desecrated the temple.
    Daniel 11:29-30 At the appointed time he will invade the South again, but this time the outcome will be different from what it was before. Ships of the western coastlands will oppose him, and he will lose heart. Then he will turn back and vent his fury against the holy covenant. He will return and show favor to those who forsake the holy covenant.

    This coincides with Daniel 8

    There are 2 other places, where an abomination of desolation is mentioned that is not in reference to Antiochus:

    Daniel 9:27 (Septuagint) and on the temple [shall be] the abomination of desolations; and at the end of time an end shall be put to the desolation.

    Daniel 12:11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up

    These are most likely what Christ was referencing.
     
  15. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    You mentioned your opinion, but no actual scriptural proof to show that Jesus was cut off at the end (within) of the 69 weeks.
    You seem to be ignoring the Hebrew word for AFTER to make your theory work.
    Daniel 9:26 AFTER the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing

    Or you seem to be changing the definition of AFTER to make your theory work

    1. adverb
    a. of place, behind, twice Genesis 22:13 (many MSS. ⅏ ᵐ5 ᵑ6 Ol Ew read אֶחָד see Di) Psalm 68:26.
    b. of time, afterwards Genesis 10:18; Genesis 18:5; Genesis 24:55; Genesis 30:21; Judges 19:5 +; וְאַחַר in laws of P, as Leviticus 14:8,19; Leviticus 15:28; Leviticus 22:7; Numbers 5:26 and elsewhere
     
  16. Christian Gedge

    Christian Gedge Active Member

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    445 BC or 444 BC was Artaxerxes 20th year. Google his reign Davy.
     
  17. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Daniel 9 prophecy established the FACT of WHEN Messiah would appear.

    Dan 9:25
    25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

    KJV

    1st Period - "seven weeks" (49 years) - from the command to restore and build Jerusalem. The command given Nehemiah in the 20th year of Artaxerxes (Neh.2; 454 B.C.).

    2nd Period - "threescore and two weeks" (434 years) - unto the Messiah the Prince.

    And you're telling me you can't figure out the rest for yourself?
     
  18. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm using Bullinger's chronology.

    It's from bishop Ussher (17th century) chronology. Ussher has beginning of Artaxeres reign at A.M. 3531, which corresponds to 474 B.C. in his Collatio Annorum. Bishop Lloyd added Ussher's chronology to the 1701 A.V. edition, but in Neh.2 Lloyd added his own date of "445 B.C." This note from Bullinger's Appendix 91 in The Companion Bible.

    Ezra 6:15
    15 And this house was finished on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the king.
    KJV
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  19. Christian Gedge

    Christian Gedge Active Member

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    There have been a few historical updates since the Bishop Ussher. He was good, but not infallible. It would help if you followed the correct dates.
     
  20. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    I realize you weren't addressing me in that post, yet I did just that, Googled it. Apparently there are differences of opinions regarding this. Such as the following link.

    http://www.truthforthelastdays.com/secondcoming/secondcoming13.html

    If you have some concluding Artaxerxes reign initially began in 464 BC, and some concluding 474 BC instead, why is it that only the former conclusion can be the correct one?
     
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