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Featured 70th Week - It Is Still Pending

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Davy, Aug 27, 2018.

  1. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Correct. Scripture explicitly states it would be 7+62 weeks unto the messiah.
    Notice, it does NOT SAY 7+62 until the messiah is cut off

    It explicitly states the messiah would be cut off AFTER 62+7

    I agree with this part

    I agree with this part

    I'm trying to understand your logic.

    If the Jesus is cut off AFTER the 62+7 weeks, in what week would this be?
     
  2. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    It seems to me, whatever happens at the end of the 69 weeks, it has to be something real significant, where it in turn leads to something even further significant.

    Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.


    If it perhaps is meaning this, did this lead to something even further significant?

    unto the Messiah the Prince(Daniel 9:25)-----thy King cometh unto thee(Zechariah 9:9)

    Why can't the latter be the fulfillment of the former?
     
  3. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    That's one possibility.

    It could also be when John the Baptist, baptized Jesus, thus revealing him to Israel:

    John 1:29-31 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.”

    Considering it can be roughly estimated that it was 3.5 years from this date until Jesus was crucified, I lean towards his baptism being when the messiah was revealed to Israel. It's also interesting how John's gospel starts with Jesus baptism and ministry beginning in the first chapter.
     
  4. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    If the end of the 69 weeks end with the fulfilling of Zechariah 9:9. Then a number of days later He dies, technically speaking, this places His death after the 69 weeks. What it doesn't do though, is place His death in the midst of the 70th week. His death was mere days after the fulfilling of Zechariah 9:9, and not years later instead.
     
  5. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Daniel 9:27 declares that “...in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease “. There is only one week which qualifies as the week in the midst (i.e. middle, 3 1/2 years from its beginning) of which Christ caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease by His death.

    It is the 70th week.

    It also marks the beginning of the 70th week at Jesus' baptism by John, as claninja has verified.
     
  6. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    It's definitely a possibility, but one I would disagree with. Jesus riding on a donkey is not when He was revealed to Israel.

    John the Baptist's purpose was to prepare the way for the Lord, Thus when John the Baptist, baptized Jesus, he fulfilled his role, revealing the messiah to Israel.

    John 1:29-31 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! This is he of whom I said, ‘After me comes a man who ranks before me, because he was before me.’I myself did not know him, but for this purpose I came baptizing with water, that he might be revealed to Israel.”


    Notice Jesus being baptized fulfills ALL righteousness:
    Matthew 3:15 Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented
    Thus fulfilling one of the 6 items of Daniel 24
    Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

    Considering Jesus was crucified about 3.5 years after his ministry began (baptism), I would argue that his baptism is more appropriate as the event that the 62+7 leads unto.
     
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  7. DaDad

    DaDad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    But there is, and there's no shortage of discontinuity between what the Scriptures say, what the "translators/commentators" have done, and what History provides.

    Perhaps when we disobey the angelic guidance, confusion reigns. Maybe we should FOLLOW the angelic guidance:

    4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end.
    9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

    What a mess the "translators/commentators" have made,
    DaDad
     
  8. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Hebrew is there for all to use.
     
  9. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
    26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


    But notice the note the 69 weeks end on----And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself. None of that is meaning His baptism 3.5 years before He dies. Something puts an end to the 69 weeks. It has to be the fulfilling of Zechariah 9:9, in order to fulfill this---And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself. You seem to have His baptism being what the 69 weeks end on. Your position is possible though, since His baptism apparently lead to His 3.5 year ministry, where it seems you are taking that to mean the confirming of the covenant with many, His ministry representing the first half of this 7 years.
     
  10. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    You and I are close on a lot of these things. Probably not in my best interest to debate you about Daniel 9:26b. Regardless who might be correct about that, whether it be me, you, or someone else altogether, it seems we at least have agreement about Daniel 9:27, and Daniel 11 as well, to name a few.
     
  11. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    I can only think that those who insist the 70th 'week' happened in the first century, have a great fear of the possibility that they, themselves will have to experience it.
    Jesus WAS cut off after the 69th week, then He rose again and returned to heaven, but He still continues to work on earth, spiritually. Meeting Paul on the Damascus Road was an example and there have been many since; of Jesus appearing to those who call to Him. Luke 13:32, Hosea 6:2

    It is a direct contradiction of scripture to say the 70th week is finished. Daniel 9:27, 2 Thess 2:4 and all the Revelation prophesies about the last 3 1/2 years, all await fulfilment.
    What's more, we Christians should be looking forward to all that must happen, as the Lord promises to protect His people, thru it all.
     
  12. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    There is a big difference between "ending" on something and occuring "after" something.
    Daniel 9:25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem UNTIL the Anointed One,f the ruler, COMES, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’

    Notice, not only does John begin the gospel with Jesus' baptism, but so does Mark:
    Mark 1:1-3 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. As it is written in Isaiah the prophet,“Behold, I send my messenger before your face, who will prepare your way, the voice of one crying in the wilderness: ‘Preparec the way of the Lord, make his paths straight,’”

    John the Baptist, the Elijah, prepared the way for the Lord, thus revealing him to Israel
    John 1:31 myself did not know him, but for this purpose I came baptizing with water, that he might be revealed to Israel.

    The 69th week leads up to the coming of the Messiah
    Mark 1:7 and he proclaimed, saying, ‘He doth come — who is mightier than I — after me,
    Mark 1:15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand;e repent and believe in the gospel.”

    Correct, the coming of the messiah, not the cutting off the messiah
    Daniel 9:25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem UNTIL the Anointed One,f the ruler, COMES, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’

    IF Daniel 9:25 stated :UNTIL the Anointed One,f the ruler, "IS CUT OFF", there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ , then I would agree with you. But scripture doesn't say that.

    I believe the 70th week begins Jesus Ministry after being baptized:
    Luke 16:16The Law and the Prophets were until John; SINCE THEN the good news of the kingdom of God is preached,

     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  13. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    Except the initial coming of the Messiah happened at His birth. But very few would conclude the end of the 69 weeks is meaning His birth. One thing is for certain, Jesus was already here and present at least 30 years, give or take a few years, when the 69 weeks finished.
     
  14. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The 70th week is fulfilled.

    The blessings which that fulfillment bought and brought are everlasting.
     
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  15. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    As a Vietnam War Veteran, I say BRING IT!

    Revelation 2:10
    No yet thou be fearing! which-things thou are being about to be suffering.
    Behold! The Devil is being about to be casting ye into a prison, that ye may be being tried,
    and ye shall be having tribulation ten days.
    Be thou becoming! faithful until death and I shall be giving to thee the crown of the life.




    https://www.google.com/search?sourc........0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0i131.rEJClP5XqQM
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
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  16. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Not such a 'little lamb' then, are you?
    But yes: 2 Peter 3:12 Look forward to the coming Day of the Lord, [of vengeance and wrath] and work to hasten it on, for that Day will set the heavens ablaze, [a Coronal Mass Ejection] and will burn up the works of mankind. 2 Peter 3:10, Isaiah 34:3, Revelation 6:12-14
    An unproveable statement, therefore of no value whatsoever.
     
  17. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    I can speak as a lamb and roar like a lion......

    Hosea 11:10
    “They shall walk after the LORD. He will roar like a lion.
    When He roars, Then His sons shall come trembling from the west;


    Revelation 5:5
    But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold! the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David,
    has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose[fn] its seven seals.”
    Revelation 6:1
    Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals;[fn] and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.”
     
  18. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    An interesting commentary from Mike Blume.......

    https://mikeblume.com/prophecy.htm

    https://mikeblume.com/70weeks.htm

    FUTURIST INTERPRETATION
    Most understand that the first sixty-nine weeks brought Israel to the advent of Jesus Christ. However, most depart from this point of belief and head into various directions of interpretation. They believe that God's time-clock that clocked off the seventy weeks stopped ticking at the end of the sixty-nine weeks, although nothing in the text of Daniel 9 assumes this in any manner whatsoever. Nothing exists in this chapter that indicates anything to do with stopping the clock.

    They teach that the Church age began and will continue until the rapture, when Israel begins offering sacrifices again in the temple, causing God to start the time-clock ticking again to finish up the 70th week, or the final seven years. It is primarily from this assumption that people believe in a future seven-year tribulation period.
    So there is a gap, they say, between the 69th and the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy, and it is called the Church Age.
    They reason that the Church has nothing to do with God's dealings with Israel, so the clock must stop for the church to be born and exist, since the clock deals with Israel alone. And after the church is removed, the time-clock again ticks away counting time for the period that God foretold He would deal with Israel.
    This means that there are some whom God never intended to become part of the Church, and that He has two groups of people -- the Church and another group of natural Israel.
    Such an idea is horrendously incorrect! It makes it as though the Church is not God's ultimate purpose.

    The idea of a gap between the last two weeks of the 70 weeks of Daniel 9 is called the "futurist" interpretation. The gap has been, so far, they say, two thousand years.

    FULFILLED INTERPRETATION
    Then there is the "fulfilled" interpretation. This understanding teaches that there is no gap whatsoever between any of the weeks, let alone the last two weeks. The series of weeks and years continued unbroken until they were totally fulfilled.

    The big difference between both interpretations is found in verse 27 in which we read that a certain individual, only described as "he," confirms a covenant for seven years, stops the sacrifices three and one half years after "he" confirmed it, and one would come to make desolation due to abominations. It then reads that wrath would be poured out.

    • "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspeading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."
    Those who believe the seventieth week has not yet been fulfilled feel that the "he" is the ANTICHRIST. They believe Antichrist, noted as "the prince that shall come" in verse 26, will make a covenant with Israel for seven years. Antichrist will break his own covenant three and one half years after confirming it, by committing the abomination of desolation in claiming to be god while standing in the physically rebuilt temple of God.
    They feel a temple in Israel will be rebuilt because there must be a temple in which the antichrist stands and declares himself to be God for this to be fulfilled (2 Thess. 2). With the recent plans in Israel to indeed rebuild a temple, they feel they are right on the mark!
    The "fulfilled" league of interpreters feel that the "he " in Daniel 9:27 is not antichrist, but is the Messiah, Jesus Christ , as mentioned in verses 25 and 26.

    • Daniel9:25-27 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
    • And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
    Jesus Christ came after 69 weeks and confirmed the New Covenant in His blood with Israel. Three and one half years after Jesus came and first ministered, He ended sacrifices by being the final sacrifice, Himself.
    The great question is: Who is the "he" of Daniel 9:27? Is he Jesus Christ or antichrist?

    After careful, prayerful, evaluation of the picture, it should be evident that the fulfilled interpretation is the correct one, and that the seventy weeks are already completed since long ago. Grammar structure proves that the he of verse 27 must be the subject of verse 26, Jesus Christ the Messiah.

    Let us begin at verse 24 and explain:
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  19. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Why didn't you quote my second sentence?

    "The blessings which that fulfillment bought and brought are everlasting."

    Hint:
    Because that's the proof.
     
  20. Christian Gedge

    Christian Gedge Member

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    Blessings that we should be shouting from the roof tops! The everlasting covenant was confirmed during the 70th week. This is what it achieved. (Daniel 9:24)

    • First, it finished transgression for those who believe, so the demands of law do not have to be charged against them.
    • Second, it made an end of sins by removing the accumulated sin temporarily covered under the old covenant, as well as removing in advance sin committed under the new covenant.
    • Third, it reconciled us to God whose justice was satisfied by the propitiatory sacrifice of his Son.
    • Fourth, it enabled the righteousness of Christ to be credited to those that believe on him irrespective of the wrongs they may have done.
    • Fifth, it sealed the vision, authenticating Jesus as the One from God and his ministry as the fulfilment of the promise.
    • Sixth, it raised and anointed a new temple, the Church, holy to the Lord, not made by man’s hands.
     
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