7 Day creation- literal or figurative?

[GenemZ]

Not all Christian have viewed or view Jesus as God incarnate.

Evidently, you do not know what a Christian is. Paul once said that not all of Israel is Israel. Same principle applies.

 

[GenemZ]

Amen, you got it. Today remains the 6th Day at Gen 1:27 until God stops creating mankind in His Image or in Christ Spiritually AND after Jesus rules and reigns for a thousand years on Planet Earth after His return. Gen 1:28-31 is prophecy of Future events which will happen AFTER Jesus returns.

Genesis 1:27 indicates continuous action? Where are you finding that in the Hebrew?

 

[Radrook]

Evidently, you do not know what a Christian is. Paul once said that not all of Israel is Israel. Same principle applies.

Please familiarize yourself with the history of Christendom and how the Trinity doctrine GRADUALLY came to predominate only after centuries of controversy and only with the intervention of secular Roman influence for the sake of political unity.

The Nicene Creed

The Nicene was not a popular creed when it was signed. Durant affirms that the majority of Eastern bishops sided with Arius in that they believed Christ was the Son of God ‘neither consubstantial nor co-eternal’ with his Father (Age 7). Arianism has never been truly quenched. While the West accepted the Athanasian view of the Trinity, and the East accepted the Trinity of the Cappadocian fathers, Arianism lives on in the Unitarian Church, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and in many smaller religions.

There is an unfortunate side to the whole Athanasian/Arian debate. Campbell could find no parallel in medieval nor modern times in the intensity of debate (49). Historically, this ‘doctrine of God’ has proved to be a bloody doctrine that has no relation to the true God of love, nor His Son Jesus Christ. Durant details the problems that arose from the Council at Nicea and summarizes that period with a dreadful verdict: ‘Probably more Christians were slaughtered by Christians in these two years (342-3) than by all the persecutions of Christians by pagans in the history of Rome’ (Age 8). Thus they perverted the teachings of Christ: ‘Love thy neighbor as thyself’,{# Mt 19:19} and of his apostles: ‘If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and His love is perfected in us’.{# 1Jo 4:12}

The evolution of the Trinity can be well seen in the words of the Apostles’ Creed, Nicene Creed, and the Athanasian Creed.2 As each of the creeds became more wordy and convoluted, the simple, pure faith of the Apostolic church became lost in a haze. Even more interesting is the fact that as the creeds became more specific (and less scriptural) the adherence to them became stricter, and the penalty for disbelief harsher.

In summary, the common culture of the day was one filled with triune gods. From ancient Sumeria’s Anu, Enlil, and Enki and Egypt’s dual trinities of Amun-Re-Ptah and Isis, Osiris, and Horus to Rome’s Jupiter, Juno, and Minerva the whole concept of paganism revolved around the magic number of three. In Greek philosophy, also, we have seen how the number three was used as an unspecified trinity of intelligence, mind, and reason.

In stark contrast, is the simple oneness of the Hebrew God. Jesus was a Jew from the tribe of Judah. He claimed to be sent to the ‘lost sheep of the house of Israel’.{# Mt 15:24} His apostles were all Jews. His god was the Jewish God. He called himself the Son of God and acknowledged his role as the Christ, {#Mt 16:15-17} and the Messiah. {#Joh 4:25-26} His message was one of love, righteousness, and salvation, and he despised the religious dogma of tradition. What a contrast from the proceedings of the Council of Nicea and the murders that followed! He gave the good news of his coming kingdom to the poor and meek: the lowly of this world. He did not require dogmatic creeds that had to be believed to the word, but rather said, ‘Follow me’.{# Mt 9:9}

http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/Contents/doctrine/The%20Origin%20of%20the%20Trinity.htm[/quote]

 

[GenemZ]

Please familiarize yourself with the history of Christendom and how the Trinity doctrine GRADUALLY came to predominate only after centuries of controversy and only with the intervention of secular Roman influence for the sake of political unity.

The Nicene Creed

It only became an issue when it was challenged by heresy. The Nicene creed did not create the concept of the Trinity. It simply confirmed what had, up until then, been accepted throughout the churches. It was not a new teaching! Some think that the council at Nicea was the beginning of this understanding. It had been long standing and not questioned. Why? Even regenerate rabbis prior to the church age knew about the Torah speaking of God being a Trinity!

Ancient Jewish Writings
About the Trinity http://www.layevangelism.com/qreference/chapter10e.htm#Top of Page

 

[Aman777]

Genesis 1:27 indicates continuous action? Where are you finding that in the Hebrew?

Amen. My point is that WE are Adam (Heb-mankind). Today's Christians are STILL being created by the Trinity, a continuous action. Gen 1:27 and Gen 5:1-2 Jesus (Lord God) formed us but God (The Trinity) CONTINUES to "create" sinners in His Image or In Christ Spiritually, Today, at the end of the Day of Salvation, the present 6th Day. We MUST be born again Spiritually, by the Trinity" Gen 1:26 and John 14:16 in order to enter God's perfect Heaven. Rom 8:9

 

[Radrook]

It only became an issue when it was challenged by heresy. The Nicene creed did not create the concept of the Trinity. It simply confirmed what had, up until then, been accepted throughout the churches. It was not a new teaching! Some think that the council at Nicea was the beginning of this understanding. It had been long standing and not questioned. Why? Even regenerate rabbis prior to the church age knew about the Torah speaking of God being a Trinity!

Ancient Jewish Writings
About the Trinity http://www.layevangelism.com/qreference/chapter10e.htm#Top of Page

Actually, the essential difference between us isn't so much the acceptability or unacceptability of the Trinitarian idea as much as it is your vehement belief that it is absolutely necessary for salvation and that its acceptance or non-acceptance as a Christian doctrine either qualifies or disqualifies one as a Christian.

You see, I don't share that that strict fanatical opinion.
To me a Christian is a Christian when he accepts Jesus's Ransom Sacrifice and strives to live a Christian life to the best of his ability.

Truth or Tradition?

Do You Have to Believe in the Trinity to be Saved?

According to orthodox Trinitarian doctrine, if a person claims to be a Christian but does not believe in the Trinity, he is not saved. [1] Is that the truth? Not from the evidence in the Bible. In fact, the evidence in Scripture is that a person can be saved without even knowing about the Trinity.

http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/do-you-have-to-believe-in-the-trinity-to-be-saved-2

-------------------------------------

Neither do I share your seemingly supernatural claim to know who is and who isn't saved. I leave that final judgment to the creator who is qualified to evaluate all pertinent factors in each person's life and based on that come to a just conclusion.

Acts 1:24
And they prayed, "Lord, You know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two You have chosen

Romans 2:6
God "will repay each one according to his deeds."

1 Samuel 16:7 ►

New International Version
But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

Addendum:

If I were to go to heaven and find that God is indeed a trinity-that would be OK by me. You on he other hand would perhaps be traumatized by the fact that God declares that he isn't a Trinity, and might even suspect him as Satan in disguise.

So we differ considerably in those ways.

Which is of course OK since everyone is entitled to a personal opinion.

 

[GenemZ]

Amen. My point is that WE are Adam (Heb-mankind). Today's Christians are STILL being created by the Trinity, a continuous action. Gen 1:27 and Gen 5:1-2 Jesus (Lord God) formed us but God (The Trinity) CONTINUES to "create" sinners in His Image or In Christ Spiritually, Today, at the end of the Day of Salvation, the present 6th Day. We MUST be born again Spiritually, by the Trinity" Gen 1:26 and John 14:16 in order to enter God's perfect Heaven. Rom 8:9

How can God create SINNERS in his image? Is God a sinner? THINK! (please)... Your wording is all wrong. God is not a sinner.

 

[GenemZ]

Actually, the essential difference between us isn't so much the acceptability or unacceptability of the Trinitarian idea as much as it is your vehement belief that it is absolutely necessary for salvation and that its acceptance or non-acceptance as a Christian doctrine either qualifies or disqualifies one as a Christian.

your vehement belief that it is absolutely necessary for salvation ..... I said that?

 

[Radrook]

your vehement belief that it is absolutely necessary for salvation ..... I said that?

You placed the genuine Christianity of those who do not accept the Trinity as essential to salvation in serious doubt.

You said:

Evidently, you do not know what a Christian is.

Please watch this video:

Do You Have to Believe in the Trinity to be Saved?

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/videos/do-you-have-to-believe-in-the-trinity-to-be-saved

 

[Radrook]

How can God create SINNERS in his image? Is God a sinner? THINK! (please)... Your wording is all wrong. God is not a sinner.

I understood him to mean transformed via being born again by means of holy spirit.

 

[Speedwell]

It only became an issue when it was challenged by heresy. The Nicene creed did not create the concept of the Trinity. It simply confirmed what had, up until then, been accepted throughout the churches. It was not a new teaching! Some think that the council at Nicea was the beginning of this understanding. It had been long standing and not questioned. Why? Even regenerate rabbis prior to the church age knew about the Torah speaking of God being a Trinity!

Not questioned? LOL! Have you never read about what went on at the Council of Nicea???

 

[GenemZ]

You placed the genuine Christianity of those who do not accept the Trinity as essential to salvation in serious doubt.

You said:

A Christian will be given the grace to see the Trinity as undeniable. A carnal Christian (who remains functioning outside of grace) will have his carnality exposed by his blindness, being unable to see the undeniable. To function as a Christian... and to be saved because you believed in Christ... are not one and the same. Paul warned that many (who will be going to heaven) do not function as God desires a Christian to be.

Philippians 3:18-19

For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, their god is their emotions, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things.​

Paul was speaking of people who had become regenerate by believing in Jesus dying for their sins.

I was born Jewish. Nothing about Christianity was taught in my home. I never attended a church to become indoctrinated with any kind of Christian doctrines/dogma. I was never "brain washed."

I had NO IDEA that anything was supposed to happen to a person after accepting Jesus having died for his sins. When I was in college I accepted. How? After being handed a small pamphlet that explained salvation of the Cross. Where? While I was was walking down the main corridor on a college campus going to my next class. I simply wanted to say the prayer. Thought nothing of it. Just knew at that point in my life I needed help because it had become painfully evident to myself that I am a sinner. So? I asked in a small prayer for God to save me from myself. I thought it was a good thing to get off of my chest. Still I had no idea of what regeneration involved. NOTHING.

Without me knowing what was taking place... within weeks God whammed me supernaturally. And, because of my ignorance about the mechanics of regeneration it took me ten years to finally have enough information figure out what it was that had been turning my world upside down and inside out from within. Yes... God saves a soul even if he know diddly squat about the NT Scriptures. Ten years went by before I recalled that afternoon between classes walk down the main lobby on campus. I could not figure out why I was so dramatically changed from within. My thoughts and feeling had been transformed. And, for ten years I bounced from one thing after another trying to figure out what it was that had gotten a hold of me.

Ten years saved... not understanding salvation. Got involved with certain things trying to connect the dots. If some here had met me at that time? They would have said I was not a Christian. I was not functioning at all like a Christian. But, I had most definitely become regenerate.

 

[GenemZ]

Not questioned? LOL! Have you never read about what went on at the Council of Nicea???

That took place hundreds of years after the Church age had begun. Minor detail for you?

What happened during those 300 years of not being challenged?

Even rabbis before the church age knew of the Trinity. They were OT saints. Long before the church began! No one jumped all over them. Why? Since there was no controversy? It not make the pages of history for everyone to take note.

1. The teaching of the Trinity is Found in Jewish Targums (O.T. in Armaic) and commentaries such as the Zohar. These Jewish sages taught that God appears in the form of three persons of the Godhead, three manifestations or three emanations.45/93-94


2. This fact indicates that the Jews rejection of Christianity up until the second century was not because of the teaching of the Trinity. They understood that the Messiah would be the Son of God. That is why so many Jews did accept him. It was not until the rebellion against Rome in AD 135 that this changed. During the three years of battle for Jewish independence led by the general Simeon Bar Kochba, many of his followers (including the famous Rabbi Akiba) declared that Bar Kochba was Israel’s true messiah.45/93-94 This forced Jewish Christians to withdraw from the Jewish forces fighting against Rome since they could only follow and give allegiance to the true Messiah: Jesus. Jewish Christians who took this stand were considered treasonous and therefore no longer welcome in the synagogues. This division between Jews and Christians has lasted for 2,000 years.​

http://www.layevangelism.com/qreference/chapter10e.htm#Top of Page

 

[Aman777]

How can God create SINNERS in his image? Is God a sinner? THINK! (please)... Your wording is all wrong. God is not a sinner.

God (The Trinity) creates sinners in His Image, or in Christ Spiritually all the Day long. He's been doing this since Adam and Eve were the FIRST of mankind to be born again Spiritually in Christ or "created in God's Image" on the present 6th Day. Gen 1:27 and Gen 5:1-2

The Creation by the agreement of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is to make a sinner into a New Creature in Christ Spiritually and Eternally. No one has said that God is a sinner. That must be your Strawman. Amen?

 

[Aman777]

I understood him to mean transformed via being born again by means of holy spirit.

Amen. I didn't think it was as hard to believe as some think.

 

[Aman777]

I had NO IDEA that anything was supposed to happen to a person after accepting Jesus having died for his sins. When I was in college I accepted. How? After being handed a small pamphlet that explained salvation of the Cross. Where? While I was was walking down the main corridor on a college campus going to my next class. I simply wanted to say the prayer.

You believed in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, His dying for your sins and His resurrection the third day according to the Scriptures, according to l Cor 15:1-10 Those who believe His Gospel are born again Spiritually, in Christ, brother. It's the POWER of God unto salvation. Rom 1:16

 

[GenemZ]

God (The Trinity) creates sinners in His Image, or in Christ Spiritually all the Day long. He's been doing this since Adam and Eve were the FIRST of mankind to be born again Spiritually in Christ or "created in God's Image" on the present 6th Day. Gen 1:27 and Gen 5:1-2

The Creation by the agreement of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is to make a sinner into a New Creature in Christ Spiritually and Eternally. No one has said that God is a sinner. That must be your Strawman. Amen?

He is not creating sinners today. It says he is taking sinners, and then TRANSFORMS sinners into His image.

2 Corinthians 3:18

And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed
into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.



words mean things and makes all the difference! ​

 

[Aman777]

He is not creating sinners today. It says he is taking sinners, and then TRANSFORMS sinners into His image.

2 Corinthians 3:18

And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed
into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.



words mean things and makes all the difference! ​

Amen. Every word of God is that way. God Bless you

 

[GenemZ]

You believed in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, His dying for your sins and His resurrection the third day according to the Scriptures, according to l Cor 15:1-10 Those who believe His Gospel are born again Spiritually, in Christ, brother. It's the POWER of God unto salvation. Rom 1:16

My point was.... you DO NOT have to understand salvation to be saved. God does it. It does not depend on us.

We can believe without understanding anything is to happen. It was not like I was trying to convince myself that regeneration was real and I was to have a transformation in my inner self. I did not necessarily like what had happened to me. It was painful to my soul, because I was not getting truth after I entered into regeneration. I was in a quiet anguish in my soul. But, I began to see life from an entirely new perspective. I knew it was supernatural what was taking place. But I had no means to define it. For, I was not getting Bible teaching. I was like a new born baby sucking for milk, and only getting sugar water from the world.

Regeneration makes us become like a fish out of water, if we want to or not. I realize now that's why so many believers seem a bit crazy to the world. The believers are no longer able to be their old selves. For, they have by God's invisible power, been crucified with Christ. They have entered into being a New Creation in Christ.

As long as they do not get fed solid doctrine? They will all be a bit whacky in their approach. For only sound doctrine produces a sound mind in the New Creation. False doctrine is like everyone eating junk food. That is why many Christians suffer from spiritual obesity and sloppiness. Their weak (and fearful) understanding makes them like spiritually diabetics... spiritual heart attacks... and spiritual cancer. Junk in.. Junk out.

2 Timothy 4:3
​

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great
number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
​

That's why we see so many goof ball Christians today. They will openly claim to be "fools for Christ" not knowing what it means to be a fool for Christ. Yet, they admit they they act like fools (because of their terrible misinterpretation of Scripture). They admit and know they're acting like fools. But, only as the world sees a fool. That is poor witnessing!

Being a 'fool for Christ' was Paul being sarcastic with the arrogant and rich Corinthian believers. It had nothing about acting like a fool. Paul was being facetious with the wealthy and snobby Corinthian church.


1 Corinthians 4:9-11

For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display at the end of the procession, like those
condemned to die in the arena. We have been made a spectacle to the whole universe, to angels as
well as to human beings. We are fools for Christ, but you are so wise in Christ! We are weak, but
you are strong! You are honored, we are dishonored! To this very hour we go hungry and thirsty,
we are in rags, we are brutally treated, we are homeless.
​

Paul was being facetious and critical of the arrogance that was prevalent in the Church at Corinth! Corinth was considered the "sin city" of Rome... where the wealthy went to vacation! The closest we have to it today would be Las Vegas. There was prostitution everywhere in Corinth. And, this prostitution was seen as the highest form of religious experience in the pagan temples all around the city. The Corinthians had been a very crude and lewd thinking people before the Holy Spirit began the transformation. That is why Paul had to rebuke the church for being proud and boasting of a member who was sleeping with his own mother. That was what Paul was up against! And, why he became facetious with them by sayig they were wise, and he was only a fool for Christ!

Christians are supposed to be straight thinkers and NOT acting like goof balls as we too often today. Its one of the reasons we may just get destroyed in the next election. God does not show favoritism with his children. If the churches do not shape up? Punishment that hurts will come our way.

 

[GenemZ]

I understood him to mean transformed via being born again by means of holy spirit.

Paul spoke of those who were maturing in Christ. Your version indicates an instantaneous transformation into the image of Christ. All the whacky thinking Christians we have amongst us refutes your theory. That transformation spoke of an ongoing process. One that came with spiritual maturing. Not all Christians mature. Many do not. That does not have to be the case. But, lazy pastors who refuse to study seriously and teach soundly are producing dumbed down believers.