7 Day creation- literal or figurative?

[Radrook]

Good comments!

People who must resort to saying Genesis is myth are unable to know God is real.

Unable because of being fanatically unwilling to do so.

Whenever any compelling argument corners them into stating the only obvious answer and that answer demands a creator in order to remain logical, they resort to the trsaditional atheist response which is available which is:

"Ï cain't SEE!"

Well, they sure as hell were seeing well enough prior to being cornered and the atheist cerebral machinery was working at full throttle prior to having to deal with an inescapable, obvious truth. Then suddenly, it starts to backfire and sputter like that Elmer Fud cartoon character's dilapidated jalopy as it tries to engage a shallow hill.

Elmer Fud

That's why I find it hard to believe that these folk are really interested in seeking truth. It smacks of fanatical evasion at all costs and if truth need be sacrificed at the alter of atheism, then from their standpoint, so be it.

That's the impression they give me.

 

[GenemZ]

Unable because of being fanatically unwilling to do so.

Whenever any compelling argument corners them into stating the only obvious answer and that answer demands a creator in order to remain logical, they resort to the trsaditional atheist response which is available which is:

"Ï cain't SEE!"

Was that meant to be play on the name Cain?

Well, they sure as hell were seeing well enough prior to being cornered and the atheist cerebral machinery was working at full throttle prior to having to deal with an inescapable, obvious truth. Then suddenly, it starts to backfire and sputter like that Elmer Fud cartoon character's dilapidated jalopy as it tries to engage a shallow hill.

Be that as it may.... I thoroughly enjoyed that cartoon. They were doing film layering in that one. Lot's of work and time consuming. It gives the landscape a sense of having depth.

That's why I find it hard to believe that these folk are really interested in seeking truth.

I sometimes feel that those who reject truth are drawn to those who do have, out of curiosity and amusement.

 

[Radrook]

Was that meant to be play on the name Cain?



Be that as it may.... I thoroughly enjoyed that cartoon. They were doing film layering in that one. Lot's of work and time consuming. It gives the landscape a sense of having depth.





I sometimes feel that those who reject truth are drawn to those who do have, out of curiosity and amusement.

The word "cain't" as opposed to cannot or "can't" I used for two reasons:

1. It seems more vehemently forceful when expressed in that quaint regional idiomatic way.

2. It is also comical.

I posted the Elmer Fudd character to illustrate how the atheist mind suddenly starts to behave irrational like the car Elmer was driving in fits and starts up that mountain. Actually, there is an Elmer Fudd episode where the car is really acting up and the accompanying music really adds to the effect. So this one was rather mild in comparison.

Since I don't know much about how they put those cartoons together I guess I am missing out on the fine details which you can appreciate based on your knowledge.

I imagine such knowledge increase the appreciation of the meticulous labor that went into producing such a finely tuned, animated and entertaining work of art. Thanks for the feedback! God Bless!

 

[Speedwell]

You seem to be under the impression that rejecting a literal interpretation of Genesis is the same as disbelieving in God.

 

[Radrook]

You seem to be under the impression that rejecting a literal interpretation of Genesis is the same as disbelieving in God.

I believe that the Earth is as old as most geologists say it is and that the universe is as old as most astronomers say it is.

 

[tatteredsoul]

I believe the seven days of the Creation is a re-occurring event. Evident because of the plurality of the word, "heavens" in Genesis 2:1 and because of the many "doublets" of days that can be found throughout the KJV Bible.

The main issue is "yom," the Hebrew word for day, what it actually means in context, and the forcing of 24 hour earth days as the metric for every single day.

Yom means everything from an aeon, to the hot of the day - and in between. In general, it is a period of time specified or unspecified.

The "day" of the lord, for example, is not 24 hours, it is an age.

Likewise, at the very least, the first three days were not 24 hour days, as there was no sun, moon or stars yet. Some try to say there was a sun on day 1 when light was separated from darkness, but that is not what "or[e]" means in Hebrew. Or[e] translates to light, and means illumination in every possible way (like goodness, intelligence, light, etc.) There is generality; the specificity of things comes on day 4.

So, a literal seven "yom" happened to forge creation. The discrepancies come from the definition of "day."

Of course God can make something by speaking it in an instant, but He also lets things naturally evolve according to His laws.

 

[tatteredsoul]

In the beginning - before a metric of time was given - God created EARTH and HEAVEN.

So, the issue of old earth/young earth is moot if you believe Genesis 1:1 anyway: earth is at least as old as time.

Everything made inside the earth and heavens is up for temporal debate...

 

[Radrook]

The main issue is "yom," the Hebrew word for day, what it actually means in context, and the forcing of 24 hour earth days as the metric for every single day.

Yom means everything from an aeon, to the hot of the day - and in between. In general, it is a period of time specified or unspecified.

The "day" of the lord, for example, is not 24 hours, it is an age.

Likewise, at the very least, the first three days were not 24 hour days, as there was no sun, moon or stars yet. Some try to say there was a sun on day 1 when light was separated from darkness, but that is not what "or[e]" means in Hebrew. Or[e] translates to light, and means illumination in every possible way (like goodness, intelligence, light, etc.) There is generality; the specificity of things comes on day 4.

So, a literal seven "yom" happened to forge creation. The discrepancies come from the definition of "day."

Of course God can make something by speaking it in an instant, but He also lets things naturally evolve according to His laws.

Why do you believe that God just speaking something will create it in an instant?

 

[tatteredsoul]

Why do you believe that God just speaking something will create it in an instant?

He can do anything in an instant; I wasn't insinuating He always does by speaking things. In fact, that is the complexity of context in this OP.

He created things in "ages" that could have been instantaneous, or an extremely long period of time. This is why I said:

Of course God can make something by speaking it in an instant, but He also lets things naturally evolve according to His laws.

 

[GenemZ]

You seem to be under the impression that rejecting a literal interpretation of Genesis is the same as disbelieving in God.

Disbelieving that God is unlimited in power and ability. That much would hold true.

 

[Radrook]

In the beginning - before a metric of time was given - God created EARTH and HEAVEN.

So, the issue of old earth/young earth is moot if you believe Genesis 1:1 anyway: earth is at least as old as time.

Everything made inside the earth and heavens is up for temporal debate...

He can do anything in an instant; I wasn't insinuating He always does by speaking things. In fact, that is the complexity of context in this OP.

He created things in "ages" that could have been instantaneous, or an extremely long period of time. This is why I said:

Of course God can make something by speaking it in an instant, but He also lets things naturally evolve according to His laws.

I understand that you believe it.
What I don't understand is why God is said to possess that magical ability of accelerating a process which might take billions of years to accomplish something so that it takes no time at all. Or of doing without any process at all and simply saying something and "abracadabra!" it happens without any process at all.

 

[GenemZ]

Why do you believe that God just speaking something will create it in an instant?

Because His word is God. (John 1:1) He speaks it? Its God.

 

[Radrook]

Because His word is God. (John 1:1) He speaks it? Its God.

If he lacked that ability you describe-would you still consider him worthy of worship?
Indeed, if he were not almighty, would he be worthy of worship?
IMHO a being called God would deserve worship not because he is powerful but because he is just.

BTW
It's not the carrying out of his wish when you commands it to take place, it is the instantaneousness of the result of his spoken word which I can't see a scriptural support for.

 

[Speedwell]

Disbelieving that God is unlimited in power and ability. That much would hold true.

On the contrary; The God who created the ancient and immense universe we see must be more able and powerful than the God who created the pokey little universe described by a literal reading of Genesis.

 

[tatteredsoul]

I understand that you believe it.
What I don't understand is why God is said to possess that magical ability of accelerating a process which might take billions of years to accomplish something so that it takes no time at all. Or of doing without any process at all and simply saying something and "abracadabra!" it happens without any process at all.

It is His universe - how is it magic when He made the rules? Did you forget who we are talking about? His Rules. HIS universe. If He wants to change the laws of physics as mortals know it, He can and will.

The Hebrew also makes it very clear what is going on between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 2:3 - creation.

If you think God practices magic, we are fundamentally talking about two different issues and/or deities.

 

[Radrook]

On the contrary; The God who created the ancient and immense universe we see must be more able and powerful than the God who created the pokey little universe described by a literal reading of Genesis.

Many Christian do not consider the earth preparatory for human habitation days as identical to the time period mentioned in Genesis 1:1. That Genesis 1:1 period is considered compatible with the eons of transformation time that scientists tell us transpired between the Big Bang and the Universe and the Earth as we know them today.

 

[Radrook]

It is His universe - how is it magic when He made the rules? Did you forget who we are talking about? His Rules. HIS universe. If He wants to change the laws of physics as mortals know it, He can and will.

The Hebrew also makes it very clear what is going on between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 2:3 - creation.

If you think God practices magic, we are fundamentally talking about two different issues and/or deities.

No, I do not believe that the creator practices inexplicable unexplainable magic.
Only if I'm told that a mere utterance results in a sudden instant result without any connection to any explainable process at all does it seem like magic. What I am referring to is the ability to speed up a process so blindingly fast that it might appear as magic. Why would we assume that is possible to begin with when the evidence indicates a very slow progression? Why would we assume that the process he chose was merely one of choice and not one that he needed to use because it was the only one available to him?

If indeed there were an infinite number of choices, ranging from instantaneous to one that would have lasted millions of times longer, why choose this one unless this one were the only one that he considered the most effective?

Jesus asked God in the garden just before being arrested, that if it were possible to remove the burden and horrible suffering that he was about to undergo, that he would prefer that God would do so. In other words, if there was another way to redeem mankind, then Jesus requested that God use it. Yet God did not but sent an angel instead to strengthen Jesus to accomplish his mission.

Are we to assume that God had an infinite number of acceptable other methods via which to redeem mankind but chose one of excruciating physical and mental suffering because it is the best and only one?

If indeed an almighty God can find himself limited to one unique choice in that case, then why is it impossible for him to be limited in other choices as well?

Did God have unlimited choices in dealing with the rebellion in the Garden of Eden, or were his choices limited by his own sense of justice? If indeed there was another acceptable way to redeem mankind without the ensuing horrific turmoil of the last six thousand years and he chose to use this particular way, then it is only logical to assume that there wasn't another way and that his choice was indeed limited to the way he has handled the situation since Eden.

So again, if God can find himself limited in choices in the area of moral issues, why can't he be equally as limited in his choices in relation to creation processes as well?

 

[tatteredsoul]

No, I do not believe that the creator practices inexplicable unexplainable magic.

The creator practices no magic(k)s - inexplicable to His creation or otherwise.

Only if I'm told that a mere utterance results in a sudden instant result without any connection to any explainable process at all does it seem like magic.

That is the myopia of secularism and its association with modern science. I am not saying you are a myopic, secularist; I am saying the paradigm concerning this OP is.

"If you cant explain it, it must be magic! God forbid humans humble themselves and realize they are incredibly limited in knowing the possible and impossible. Either it is magic, God did not do what He said, He didn't mean what He said..."

In reality, we don't need to speculate on God; His word is Perfect - and this is apparent in the original language He spoke to Adam and the Hebrews. When you look at the meaning of the Hebrew words, and the context (like a 24 hour earth day, as it is, cannot exist if there is no sun, moon or stars yet,) we can see the clarity of the situation without necessarily knowing the details. For example: knowing one day was an "aeon," without needing to know how long the aeon was.

What I am referring to is the ability to speed up a process so blindingly fast that it might appear as magic. Why would we assume that is possible to begin with when the evidence indicates a very slow progression?

Why would i assume that is possible?

Seriously, are we talking about the same deity again? The Most High God is omnipotent; the valodity of such an assumption is implicit in the definition of one of His characteristics.

Why would we assume that the process he chose was merely one of choice and not one that he needed to use because it was the only one available to him?

The Most High God is omniscience.

If indeed there were an infinite number of choices, ranging from instantaneous to one that would have lasted millions of times longer, why choose this one unless this one were the only one that he considered the most effective?

Now you are assuming this reality - and everything that led up to it - weren't there the most effective for whatever His purpose was/is.

Jesus asked God in the garden just before being arrested, that if it were possible to remove the burden and horrible suffering that he was about to undergo, that he would prefer that God would do so. In other words, if there was another way to redeem mankind, then Jesus requested that God use it. Yet God did not but sent an angel instead to strengthen Jesus to accomplish his mission.

Christ was displaying humanity in that He wanted to be freed from the pain and suffering. He made a prayer/plea to take it away like we all have, but God''s plan is Perfect. This was His plan, and to assume it isnt the Best plan is to assume He is lacking.

Are we to assume that God had an infinite number of acceptable other methods via which to redeem mankind but chose one of excruciating physical and mental suffering because it is the best and only one?

If indeed an almighty God can find himself limited to one unique choice in that case, then why is it impossible for him to be limited in other choices as well?

Did God have unlimited choices in dealing with the rebellion in the Garden of Eden, or were his choices limited by his own sense of justice? If indeed there was another acceptable way to redeem mankind without the ensuing horrific turmoil of the last six thousand years and he chose to use this particular way, then it is only logical to assume that there wasn't another way and that his choice was indeed limited to the way he has handled the situation since Eden.

So again, if God can find himself limited in choices in the area of moral issues, why can't he be equally as limited in his choices in relation to creation processes as well?

I think we are talking about two different gods.

 

[GenemZ]

If he lacked that ability you describe-would you still consider him worthy of worship?
Indeed, if he were not almighty, would he be worthy of worship?
IMHO a being called God would deserve worship not because he is powerful but because he is just.

BTW
It's not the carrying out of his wish when you commands it to take place, it is the instantaneousness of the result of his spoken word which I can't see a scriptural support for.

Look what Jesus did with the few loaves and few fishes, when he fed thousands.

 

[GenemZ]

No, I do not believe that the creator practices inexplicable unexplainable magic.

That's lazy thinking. What you said flies in the face of logic of what can be known about God. Apparently? You simply believe God is a very powerful entity, and not God.

His unlimited abilities knock you out of your comfort zone. Possibly, even causes you to wonder why he allows you to live while holding such negativity towards his unchanging Integrity. You're no threat. No more than that speck of dust that just floated by a rock two thousand miles from your location.