Muslims are taught to do anything for their faith, and there can't be compromise, so many among them really would do anything.
As my professor from Jordan said in class on Wednesday, 'We have Muslims in name only and then we have those that try to follow Islam.' (I'm paraphrasing because I can't remember the exact quote.)Nonsense. Muslims come in all shapes and sizes, just like Christians.
As my professor from Jordan said in class on Wednesday, 'We have Muslims in name only and then we have those that try to follow Islam.' (I'm paraphrasing because I can't remember the exact quote.)
smaneck said:Nonsense. Muslims come in all shapes and sizes, just like Christians.
I posted what this post responds to because I was waiting to see your response to post #280 in 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity, to which you still have not responded. If you do see it, do you say Muslims do not observe the passage mentioned? Aren't there observing Muslims?
I posted what this post responds to because I was waiting to see your response to post #280 in 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity, to which you still have not responded. If you do see it, do you say Muslims do not observe the passage mentioned? Aren't there observing Muslims?
Muslims are taught to do anything for their faith, and there can't be compromise, so many among them really would do anything.
Niblo said:‘Allāh has purchased the persons and possessions of the believers in return for the Garden - they fight in Allāh’s way: they kill and are killed - this is a true promise given by Him in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Qur’an. Who could be more faithful to his promise than Allāh? So be happy with the bargain you have made: that is the supreme triumph. (The believers are) those who turn to Allāh in repentance; who worship and praise Him; who bow down and prostrate themselves; who order what is good and forbid what is wrong and who observe Allāh’s limits. Give glad news to such believers.’ (Al-Tawba: 111-112).
This passage defines the relationship between the Muslims and their Lord. Becoming a Muslim is described as a contract – covenant, if you like – without reservation.
It means that Muslims must strive to uphold His commandments, and to turn away - in condemnation - from all He has forbidden. They must strive to excel in prayer; in charity; in good deeds of all kinds; in standing up for what is true against what is false; and yes, in fighting when they have to, in order to protect themselves, and all who seek their protection. Muslims are obliged to protect the defenceless; women; children; and the old from privation, suffering and moral peril. According to the Shari’a, fighting in a ‘just war’ is a duty (as it is in all other forms of state governance, whether religious or secular). Is there any Christian or Jew who would not do likewise?
I hope this helps.
smaneck said:If your asking if Muslims will fight for a righteous cause, one which ends oppression and persecution. Yes, their religion tells them to do so. It does not tell the to do anything like which is what you falsely asserted.
Zoness said:I mean, this is basically true of Christianity as well.
Yet I know things Yahweh God said in the Bible, along with loving and respecting Yahweh God and having no other God, we are not to kill, as we are not to commit adultery, not to cheat or steal, and not to bear false witness.
So there is basis among many of Christianity even seen for pacifism.
smaneck said:Saul lost his throne for refusing God's order to commit genocide
Yes, we see that with TG123. But most Christians accept St. Augustine's definition of a just war and I don't see anything in the Qur'an or the Shariah which differs from it.
Saul lost his kingship, though after a great deal of time, because he was not obeying Yahweh, and acted on his own, this leading the people of Israel from obedience to Yahweh and serving Yahweh. It was seen early with his not destroying the flocks as he was told to do, with his claim he would save them for sacrifice. But the flocks were not to be of any benefit to people of Israel, as they were being saved for as it was.
I don't see where in the Quran there are such limits given as in the Bible.
smaneck said:Let's not obscure what really happened. Saul was told to commit genocide against all the Amalekites, even infants and sucklings. He didn't just spare the animals, he also spared the king.
Here are the rules of warfare in Islam:
1. “Do not kill any child, any woman, or any elder or sick person.” (Sunan Abu Dawud)
2. “Do not practice treachery or mutilation.(Al-Muwatta)
3. Do not uproot or burn palms or cut down fruitful trees.(Al-Muwatta)
4. Do not slaughter a sheep or a cow or a camel, except for food.” (Al-Muwatta)
5. “If one fights his brother, [he must] avoid striking the face, for God created him in the image of Adam.” (Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim)
6. “Do not kill the monks in monasteries, and do not kill those sitting in places of worship. (Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal)
7. “Do not destroy the villages and towns, do not spoil the cultivated fields and gardens, and do not slaughter the cattle.” (Sahih Bukhari; Sunan Abu Dawud)
8. “Do not wish for an encounter with the enemy; pray to God to grant you security; but when you [are forced to] encounter them, exercise patience.” (Sahih Muslim)
9. “No one may punish with fire except the Lord of Fire.” (Sunan Abu Dawud).
10. “Accustom yourselves to do good if people do good, and to not do wrong even if they commit evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)
Yes, I failed to think of the king in remembering the passage, that is important too. I wasn't really saying anything that obscured what happened, I did in fact mention in my post the Amelekites that were to be eliminated. And godly perspective recognizes, none are innocent.
I do say that Canaanites and Amelekites are exceptional cases, for which the word of Yahweh came.
God isn't saying anything for justifying war today. I still say any just war is very exceptional.
Thanks for sharing that, for me to have better perspective of things said of this. "To not do wrong" is not unambiguously saying not to kill, as this is said for generally in the Bible, as to slay and to be slain is not wrong for the faithful in the Qur'an passage that was mentioned, though here there are some exceptions to it being mentioned.
smaneck said:And that makes babies and toddlers legitimate targets of war?
Incidentally, Christian preachers used passages like this to justify the genocide similarly committed against Native Americans.
Whereas the Tanakh allows for the targeting of non-combatants, Islam does not. That is the key difference here.