50 Reasons for the Pretribulation Rapture

[BABerean2]

It was scriptural prior to those books and movies, it was scriptural during, and it is scriptural now. No matter what LaHaye ever did or said, none of it has any bearing on that reality, for good or bad. The truth of the pre-trib rapture has never hinged on LaHaye.

Left Behind or Led Astray: History of the Pretrib Rapture doctrine

Rev 12:11　 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.　

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[Quasar92]

The error that modern Jews would come to salvation outside of the Church was the original doctrine taught by Darby, Scofield, and Larkin, as seen below in the presentation by Pastor John Otis.

Read the book "Things to Come" by Dr. Dwight Pentecost to confirm the above.
Dr. Pentecost was a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary and a proponent of modern Dispensational Theology.

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Dwight Pentecost happened to be one of my mentors, beside the two Bible Colleges I earned qualifications to teach the Bible from. He is an avid advocate of the pre-trib rapture of the Church. The OP was provided by the late John Walvoord, former President of the Dallas Theological Seminary.

FYI, the origins of the pre-trib rapture teachings come directly from Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, as documented in the following four post link:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

Mat 24:29　 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.　

Joh_16:33　 These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."

Rom_5:3　 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance;

Rom_8:35　 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Rom_12:12　 rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer;

2Co_1:4　 who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.

2Co_7:4　 Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my boasting on your behalf. I am filled with comfort. I am exceedingly joyful in all our tribulation.

1Th_3:4　 For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know.

Rev_1:9　 I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 2:9　 "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.　


Rev_2:10　 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.


Genesis of Dispensational Theology

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418



Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
PDF Files


Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf



Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf



Left Behind or Led Astray?
Good Fight Ministries
http://www.leftbehindorledastray.com/

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The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, as recorded in the following four post link:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

Fake news.

The rapture is a myth amongst brother and sister Christians. It's a secondary issue that can be vigorously debated but should never divide Christians. That being said...

There is zero basis for a sudden rapture or "secret coming." It is a 19th century started myth, created by Dispensationalist John Nelson Darby. In fact, the rapture was never taught by evangelical Protestantism prior to the year 1830. Why? Because it is not a bible based doctrine. Its origin is not based on scripture.

John 5:28-29 (NKJV)
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which ALL who are in the graves will hear His voice 29-and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV)
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall ALL be changed, 52-In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (Emphasis mine).

"ALL" will see the second coming of our Lord, not just a few during any "secret" coming where Jesus takes his church and then leaves the rest to suffer 7 years of "hell" (tribulation) on earth. Rather when He comes the second time, believers in Hades (Abraham's bossum; Luke 16) will rise first and will be taken with those believers still living on earth at the time of the second coming. The non believers in Hades (in "agony"; Luke 16) will be cast down to hell with those non believers at the time Christ appears. This is the great judgment.

Not understanding the book of Revelation and Daniel is why the "Rapture" myth came to fruition in the 19th century.

Ask yourself this: Why didn't one biblical scholar such as Calvin, Luther, Newton, Wycliffe, not even the Roman Catholics, nor Greek Orthodox nor any other reliable professor before the 1800's ever identify nor profess this "secret Rapture" myth, whch supposedly stemmed from within the pages of "Sola scripture?"

Answer: Because it came to fruition from the mind of a crazy man, John Darby.

The reason the pre-trib rapture of the Church was not taught by all those you list in your post above, is because the RCC held it hostage, along with the 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth, for more than 1,600 years by their doctrine of Amillennialism.

Review the origins of the pre-trib rapture of the Church teachings, by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, Jojm and Paul, in the four post link below:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum


Quasar93

 

[Quasar92]

Author Tim LaHaye's books and movies have convinced millions that the pre-trib doctrine is scriptural.
What did he say about which viewpoint is the oldest?


"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."

Tim LaHaye, "Rapture Under Attack", page 197, Multnomath Publishers, Inc., 1998


Since the doctrine of the Apostles of Christ would be the oldest view, I will go with their version.

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Recommended reading: The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church, in the four post link below:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

Yeah Tim LaHaye (rolls eyes). There's another one who has seriously twisted his interpretation of scripture.

Dr. Tim LaHaye uses biblical monikers such as “The Day of Israel’s Calamity” to codify what he eerily described as Antichrist’s “final solution” to the “Jewish problem.” *1.

*1. Tim LaHaye and Thomas Ice, Charting the End Times (Eugene, OR: Harvest House, 2001), 63.

LaHaye is totally convinced that this time of national suffering for Jews will “be far worse than the Spanish Inquisition of the sixteenth century or even the Holocaust of Adolph Hitler in the twentieth century.” *2. Where does he get this information, because it's not found in the Bible.

*2. Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins, Are We Living in the End Times? (Wheaton, IL: Tyndale, 1999), 146.

Sadly, Tim LaHaye's eisegesis is just a sad example of the blind leading the blind. Though he's made millions with his "Left Behind" series of fiction.

Again, we Christians ar called to correct and rebuke these types. This is not me (66/40) making this command, rather it is Paul:

2 Timothy 4:2-5 (NIV)
"2- preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage patient with great patience and careful instruction. 3-For The time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4-They Will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5-But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry."

The fact of the matter as to what Israel, the Jews. will go through during the coming tribulation, is that there will be two thirds of them will die, as recorded in Zech.13:8.


Quasar92

 

[66/40]

The reason the pre-trib rapture of the Church was not taught by all those you list in your post above, is because the RCC held it hostage, along with the 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth, for more than 1,600 years by their doctrine of Amillennialism.

Sorry, but I'd agree with you if you were right. The Roman Catholics were never successful in containing nor censoring the Greek Orthodox, the Reformers, nor the Protestants on the subject it was they choose to preach. Calvin and Luther are but two classic examples of historic biblical scholars that couldn't be contained by the Papacy. They NEVER taught a rapture "

Review the origins of the pre-trib rapture of the Church teachings, by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, Jojm and Paul, in the four post link below:
Quasar93[/QUOTE]
Why on earth would I go to that link and rad about what Matthew, luke, John and Paul had to say, when I can go directly to the Bible itself? Do you also recommend that we listen to the likes of John Hagee, Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Liar-Meyer or Benny Hinn for biblical "truths" as well?

Ever notice that the rapture myth is always brushed aside of the fact that in order to understand it, one must be able to secretly decipher its almost cryptic-like verbiage within the confines of scripture? Why is it that the birth, life, teachings, crucifixion, death, and resurrection of Jesus are CLEARLY and EASILY professed in the Bible, but the rapture is like a cryptogram from a WW2 German enigma code deciphering machine? How come the key to eternal salvation is clearly laid out in the Bible but the rapture seems to be this super-secret occurrence that only a few can evidentially interpret the hidden secret which lies deep within the Bible? Doesn't that sound strange? Even the second coming of Christ is CLEARLY and unequivocally laid out in the Bible without question. (Hebrews 9:28; Acts 1:10-11; Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:44; John 14:1-3; Matthew 24:36; Titus 2:13 etc... I could go on and on...)

Sorry, but Jesus never worked in secrets. If the rapture was that important, God would have been so much more crystal clear on the matter, like He was about the second coming, through the pages of scripture.

Again, Jesus never taught in confusing riddles, cryptics nor secrets:

John 18:19-21 (NIV-1984):
19-Meanwhile, the high priest question Jesus about his disciples and his teaching. 20-"I have spoken openly to the world," Jesus replied. "I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret. 21-Why question me? Ask those who heard me. Surely they know what I said."

 

[SeventyOne]

Left Behind or Led Astray: History of the Pretrib Rapture doctrine

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

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I've heard the lies that are in this video before and you all who are complicit in that deception will give an account for it.

 

[SeventyOne]

Sorry, but I'd agree with you if you were right. The Roman Catholics were never successful in containing nor censoring the Greek Orthodox, the Reformers, nor the Protestants on the subject it was they choose to preach. Calvin and Luther are but two classic examples of historic biblical scholars that couldn't be contained by the Papacy. They NEVER taught a rapture "

It doesn't matter at all if Calvin or Luther ever taught the rapture or not. Either way, it changes nothing. For example, suppose Luther did preach the pre-trib rapture, would that suddenly change your mind, or would you just ignore it? I suspect you would just ignore it or explain it away, indicating their teaching on it would hold no weight with you either way either.

 

[Neogaia777]

Mid-trib for Christians, pre-trib for the world and people of it....

Christians will be going through a kind of spiritual persecution/tribulation, that will get more physical later on when It's tribulation for the world also... But Christians and perhaps all religion will be going through a kind or tribulation before the world will...

The world will probably institute peace, at the cost of christian morals and values... But the world will start insisting on it's ways, and anyone against it, would be constituted the enemy and not for peace... This is how it will start...

Peace,

God Bless!

 

[66/40]

It doesn't matter at all if Calvin or Luther ever taught the rapture or not. Either way, it changes nothing. For example, suppose Luther did preach the pre-trib rapture, would that suddenly change your mind, or would you just ignore it? I suspect you would just ignore it or explain it away, indicating their teaching on it would hold no weight with you either way either.

"SUPPOSE?" "SUPPOSE?" Well lets "suppose" then that grandma was born a male, then she'd be Grandpa, right????

You're presenting not only a false-dilemma but also a false assumption. You're creating a hypothetical situation that clearly never existed. Therefore you're last point here is moot.

You're argument has its feet firmly planted in midair. Try just using facts in evidence (history) that have already been proven over time. That is, neither Calvin nor Luther EVER taught the rapture myth. Not ever.

 

[jgr]

The reason the pre-trib rapture of the Church was not taught by all those you list in your post above, is because the RCC held it hostage, along with the 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth, for more than 1,600 years by their doctrine of Amillennialism.

If the RCC held it hostage, there must be someone who was advocating it prior to the RCC's appearance on the scene. Who was that someone?

 

[jgr]

The reason the pre-trib rapture of the Church was not taught by all those you list in your post above, is because the RCC held it hostage, along with the 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth, for more than 1,600 years by their doctrine of Amillennialism.

Review the origins of the pre-trib rapture of the Church teachings, by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, Jojm and Paul, in the four post link below:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum


Quasar93

If the RCC had ever heard of a pretrib rapture, they would have fallen all over themselves in their haste to embrace it, because it fits perfectly with the futurism that was contrived by the papacy's counter-reformation. Futurism and pretribulationism are absolutely integral, indispensable, and inextricable within dispensationalism today. But the RCC didn't embrace it, because they never heard of it. You can't hold hostage something of which you've never heard.

 

[SeventyOne]

"SUPPOSE?" "SUPPOSE?" Well lets "suppose" then that grandma was born a male, then she'd be Grandpa, right????

You're presenting not only a false-dilemma but also a false assumption. You're creating a hypothetical situation that clearly never existed. Therefore you're last point here is moot.

You're argument has its feet firmly planted in midair. Try just using facts in evidence (history) that have already been proven over time. That is, neither Calvin nor Luther EVER taught the rapture myth. Not ever.

My point is that your point is irrelevent. Luther and Calvin had bigger issues than eschatology to contend with, such as rescuing salvation by grace through faith from the RCC teachings.

Tell me the truth. If a new document suddenly emerged from Calvin or Luther where they taught the concept of a pre-trib rapture, would you suddenly embrace it, or continue to deny it?

 

[66/40]

My point is that your point is irrelevent. Luther and Calvin had bigger issues than eschatology to contend with, such as rescuing salvation by grace through faith from the RCC teachings.

No not quite. Respectfully, where do you come up with this stuff? When Calvin "freed" himself from Catholicism and migrated to Geneva (a relatively "catholic-free" society at the time), his absolute number one priority in life was his complete and absolute devotion to soteriology! He lived and breathed his concept of the “double grace” gifted to all believers through their “partaking” in Christ. After Geneva, he even had time to write the first "study bible" without hardly any interference from the RCC. In all of his volumes of writings, he could have easily mentioned at least something about this fantastic "rapture" myth, but he didn't. Because the myth didn't exist then and still doesn't exist today within the pages of scripture.

Luther's number one priority was a reverence for Sola scriptura and denouncing the Roman Catholic's sale of "indulgences." He was hardly focused on the RCC after he wrote his 95-Theses and boldly wrote the "Luther bible" for the common man. In other words, he too would have had PLENTY of uninterrupted time Stemming from the R-Catholic Church to write about a fantastical rapture, had he thought it existed within the parchment of the manuscript evidence.

Surely you can't believe that Calvin and Luther didn't "have time" to refute or prove of this fantastic rapture myth, because they were just "too busy" battling the RCC? Come on mate, you can't be serious?! ....Are you???

Tell me the truth. If a new document suddenly emerged from Calvin or Luther where they taught the concept of a pre-trib rapture, would you suddenly embrace it, or continue to deny it?

Why do you have this insatiable desire to continuously present a non sequitur scenario? You're dodging facts that are already present and then you assume "facts" that are NOT in the historical evidence. You suggest nothing but hypotheticals of magical "documents" that will "suddenly appear" in an effort to strengthen your already weak argument for the secret rapture myth. That's called "fake news."

Right now, there isn't any documents from either Calvin nor Luther to support your rapture claim. Both of them in fact had plenty of time to translate and write their own bibles from the manuscript evidence at that time! Definitely a colossal task indeed! In fact, Calvin even wrote and published his own 1560 Geneva bible with his own "STUDY NOTES" within the margins of that bible!" So don't even try to hint that those two were just "too busy" thwarting off the RCC. That's preposterous.

You can't accept the fact that neither the Protestants, Reformers, Orthodox, nor the Roman Catholics never taught about the rapture. That's because they were all intelligent enough to master the art and science of proper biblical interpretation.

 

[BABerean2]

I've heard the lies that are in this video before and you all who are complicit in that deception will give an account for it.

Luk_6:42　 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

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[SeventyOne]

No not quite. Respectfully, where do you come up with this stuff? When Calvin "freed" himself from Catholicism and migrated to Geneva (a relatively "catholic-free" society at the time), his absolute number one priority in life was his complete and absolute devotion to soteriology! He lived and breathed his concept of the “double grace” gifted to all believers through their “partaking” in Christ. After Geneva, he even had time to write the first "study bible" without hardly any interference from the RCC. In all of his volumes of writings, he could have easily mentioned at least something about this fantastic "rapture" myth, but he didn't. Because the myth didn't exist then and still doesn't exist today within the pages of scripture.

Luther's number one priority was a reverence for Sola scriptura and denouncing the Roman Catholic's sale of "indulgences." He was hardly focused on the RCC after he wrote his 95-Theses and boldly wrote the "Luther bible" for the common man. In other words, he too would have had PLENTY of uninterrupted time Stemming from the R-Catholic Church to write about a fantastical rapture, had he thought it existed within the parchment of the manuscript evidence.

Surely you can't believe that Calvin and Luther didn't "have time" to refute or prove of this fantastic rapture myth, because they were just "too busy" battling the RCC? Come on mate, you can't be serious?! ....Are you???


Why do you have this insatiable desire to continuously present a non sequitur scenario? You're dodging facts that are already present and then you assume "facts" that are NOT in the historical evidence. You suggest nothing but hypotheticals of magical "documents" that will "suddenly appear" in an effort to strengthen your already weak argument for the secret rapture myth. That's called "fake news."

Right now, there isn't any documents from either Calvin nor Luther to support your rapture claim. Both of them in fact had plenty of time to translate and write their own bibles from the manuscript evidence at that time! Definitely a colossal task indeed! In fact, Calvin even wrote and published his own 1560 Geneva bible with his own "STUDY NOTES" within the margins of that bible!" So don't even try to hint that those two were just "too busy" thwarting off the RCC. That's preposterous.

You can't accept the fact that neither the Protestants, Reformers, Orthodox, nor the Roman Catholics never taught about the rapture. That's because they were all intelligent enough to master the art and science of proper biblical interpretation.

I'm the dodger? You just wrote 6 paragraph avoiding everything I just said. You're pretty entertaining by the way you dance around in your posts. The one thing I've noticed is that you seem to skirt around anything I say with a lot of words but without actually saying anything relevent.

You wouldn't happen to be in politics would you?

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I have an entire thread debunking this nonsense:

No pretrib rapture

Pretrib Rapture is a false doctrine plain and simple.

 

[Quasar92]

Sorry, but I'd agree with you if you were right. The Roman Catholics were never successful in containing nor censoring the Greek Orthodox, the Reformers, nor the Protestants on the subject it was they choose to preach. Calvin and Luther are but two classic examples of historic biblical scholars that couldn't be contained by the Papacy. They NEVER taught a rapture "

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There is little point in interfacing with people who know the Scriptures better than the authors who taught, or wrote them. In addition to trying to sweep the link containing the Biblical facts that refute them, under the table. The opinions expressed in your above post are meaningless, because they are without a shred of Scriptural support to verify them.

Either prove your views refute any part of the following four post link. or your views are false.

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum


Quasar92

 

[SeventyOne]

Luk_6:42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

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Yup, that's what you replacement theology people should be mindful of as you go about to all these threads falsly declaring these things as lies over and over, and then substituting your own doctrine in its place.