50 Reasons for the Pretribulation Rapture

[parousia70]

The Old Testament sacrifices were the pattern of things in the heavens, purified with the blood of bulls and goats Hebrews 9:13 the “heavenly things” were purified with the blood of Christ,.

So far so good.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

NOW to appear?
When do you say is NOW?

After The ascension in acts 9 or before??

Futurists are typically ambiguous with time statements such as this... I still hold out hope that you'll be specific....?

As far as I can tell, you have him appearing "in the presence of God for us" once before he saw Thomas, and again after the Acts 9 ascension, which fully contradicts this:

Hebrews 9:26
He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

I take this to say they no longer knew Christ as He was in the flesh. How does that refute my point?

Did they stop knowing Christ all together? They no longer knew him at all? If he remained it "in the flesh" as you contend, how could they claim they "did not know him that way anymore"?
Aren't you claiming that's how YOU presently know Him?

My question:
What text do you support the claim he was glorified at that moment and what text do you support the claim it was the same body He had before the incarnation?

parousia70 said:

John 17:5

What in John 17:5 tells us when that was done?

Before I answer the question of when, am I correct in my understanding that you acquiesce the point that His present and current Body is the same one He had before the incarnation?

 

[Postvieww]

So far so good.

I like it when we agree.

NOW to appear?
When do you say is NOW?

After The ascension in acts 9 or before??

Futurists are typically ambiguous with time statements such as this... I still hold out hope that you'll be specific....?

This reminds of of the famous question “what is, is” .

Let’s see what the context tells us about “now”

Can we agree Hebrews 9:1-10 speaks of the earthly tabernacle” that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience” 9b?

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

The more perfect Tabernacle in heaven

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Jesus entered into the holy place (in heaven) “ONCE” by His own blood, and is now seated by the right hand of the Father. When was that one time He entered into that holy place? I believe this chapter 9 gives us evidence when compared with John 20 that He did ascend after He spoke to Mary an before He spoke to Thomas. You have yet to offer another explanation as to why He did this.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

“Now” when this verse was penned and “now” in our present, Christ is at the right hand of the Father ever living to make intersession for us, Romans 8:34, Hebrew 7:25. A different act from appearing in the holy place vs 23-26, which happened one time.

Christ had already appeared in the tabernacle not made with hands I believe between John 20:17 and 27.

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Paul uses “now” and past tense “appeared” in the same sentence. Christ offered His blood one time not every year as in the earthly tabernacle. “Now once in the end of the world he hath appeared” appeared, past, already, now, then. Don’t try to have too much fun with the “end of the world” statement.

I believe "now" can refer to now then and now now.

As far as I can tell, you have him appearing "in the presence of God for us" once before he saw Thomas, and again after the Acts 9 ascension, which fully contradicts this:

Hebrews 9:26
He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Absolutely. I see no contradiction He appeared once in the tabernacle not made with hands and is appearing NOW at the right hand of the Father


You don’t have to agree with me here, but if not, you really should explain why Jesus said to Mary touch me not and to Thomas touch me.