5 Solas

[MDC]

Arminians are just a branch of Reformed thought, it has the same theological categories, more or less.

Arminianism is opposite. Arminianism rejects the doctrines of grace so therefore do not see how they agree biblically with 5 solas

 

[HatGuy]

Arminianism is opposite. Arminianism rejects the doctrines of grace so therefore do not see how they agree biblically with 5 solas

Not everything has to do with Calvinism vs Arminianism .

Also, this reasoning would also mean even Lutherans don't agree with the five solas .

 

[MDC]

Not everything has to do with Calvinism vs Arminianism .

Also, this reasoning would also mean even Lutherans don't agree with the five solas .

Free grace vs free will. Is that better? Ones the gospel ones not. Lutherans agree with free will?

 

[FireDragon76]

Free grace vs free will. Is that better? Ones the gospel ones not. Lutherans agree with free will?

We aren't Calvinists, certainly. We don't believe grace is irresistable, nor do we have any kind of doctrine of perserverance of the saints. Beyond that, we do not believe human choice merits salvation. We don't ask people to make a decision for Jesus, for instance.

Arminians do not deny the doctrine of grace. No Christian really does.

 

[MDC]

We aren't Calvinists, certainly. We don't believe grace is irresistable, nor do we have any kind of doctrine of perserverance of the saints.

Arminians do not deny the doctrine of grace. No Christian really does.

Wow! Really? Free will denies Gods grace in salvation

 

[FireDragon76]

Wow! Really? Free will denies Gods grace in salvation

I don't see how. An Arminian understand's salvation as initiated by grace, the same as I do or you do. The whole act of incarnation by God is a movement of grace.

 

[HatGuy]

Free grace vs free will. Is that better? Ones the gospel ones not. Lutherans agree with free will?

There is nothing in the five solas that defines free will. So, Arminians, Calvinists, Lutherans, and even Open Theists and evangelical Universalists can affirm the five solas.

 

[MDC]

I don't see how. An Arminian understand's salvation as initiated by grace, the same as I do or you do. The whole act of incarnation by God is a movement of grace.

Maybe like you do. Their understanding of prevenient grace doesn’t save. As you would understand since you reject irresistible grace. So the will of man is the determining factor in salvation not Gods Sovereign grace and Will. Let me put it like this, if one denies unconditional election then one denies salvation by grace alone. The doctrines of grace are essentials of the gospel. Dort knew this and condemned Arminianism as such. Arminianism is heresy. It’s nothing more than pelagianism with the smokescreen of “prevenient” grace as their disguise.

 

[MDC]

There is nothing in the five solas that defines free will. So, Arminians, Calvinists, Lutherans, and even Open Theists and evangelical Universalists can affirm the five solas.

If one denies the doctrines of grace then ones understanding of the 5 solas is perverted

 

[HatGuy]

If one denies the doctrines of grace then ones understanding of the 5 solas is perverted

Or, everyone else has it right and the Calvinist, the odd one out, has a perverted view of the 5 solas.

Because witch hunting really helps, yah?

 

[MDC]

Or, everyone else has it right and the Calvinist, the odd one out, has a perverted view of the 5 solas.

Because witch hunting really helps, yah?

You sound like Rome did during the time of the reformation

 

[HatGuy]

You sound like Rome did during the time of the reformation

You sound grumpy.

 

[HatGuy]

You sound like Rome did during the time of the reformation

Might I also remind you that Luther was the one at the forefront of the Reformation, pushing for sola fide and the other solas, and in fact, was instrumental in their doctrinal formation. Luther did not subscribe to the "doctrines of grace" as espoused by Calvinism. So... maybe your understanding of the solas needs to be refined.

 

[FireDragon76]

Maybe like you do. Their understanding of prevenient grace doesn’t save. As you would understand since you reject irresistible grace. So the will of man is the determining factor in salvation not Gods Sovereign grace and Will. Let me put it like this, if one denies unconditional election then one denies salvation by grace alone. The doctrines of grace are essentials of the gospel. Dort knew this and condemned Arminianism as such. Arminianism is heresy. It’s nothing more than pelagianism with the smokescreen of “prevenient” grace as their disguise.

Lutheranism is not a rationalistic theological system in that manner. Salvation is solely God's work, but that isn't to say that we cannot reject it.

The doctrine of grace is not essential to the Gospel, even if I do accept we are saved by God's grace alone. The Gospel is the good news about God's reconciliation with a sinful world through Christ. That is what saves us.

 

[MDC]

Might I also remind you that Luther was the one at the forefront of the Reformation, pushing for sola fide and the other solas, and in fact, was instrumental in their doctrinal formation. Luther did not subscribe to the "doctrines of grace" as espoused by Calvinism. So... maybe your understanding of the solas needs to be refined.

Bondage of the will I could say that he did. It’s evident that the Arminians of the day, after Calvin and Luther were gone, had issues with the gospel of grace for them to put out 5 articles of remonstrance. It’s hard to say exactly what Luther did or did not hold to but bondage of the Will sounds like he did. About Lutherans today, I feel like they are more Arminian than reformed.

 

[FireDragon76]

Bondage of the will I could say that he did. It’s evident that the Arminians of the day, after Calvin and Luther were gone, had issues with the gospel of grace for them to put out 5 articles of remonstrance. It’s hard to say exactly what Luther did or did not hold to but bondage of the Will sounds like he did. About Lutherans today, I feel like they are more Arminian than reformed.

Calvinists sometimes misread Bondage of the Will. It should really be translated as "On Bound Choice", for one.

We aren't Reformed at all. You guys basically thought of us as superstitious bread worshippers at one time.

 

[MDC]

Calvinists sometimes misread Bondage of the Will. It should really be translated as "On Bound Choice", for one.

We aren't Reformed at all. You guys basically thought of us as superstitious bread worshippers at one time.

I didn’t misread it. So you believe Luther wasn’t opposed to free will?

 

[FireDragon76]

I didn’t misread it. So you believe Luther wasn’t opposed to free will?

Lutherans generally do not engage in philosophical speculation in that manner and proclaim it as doctrine. Our doctrine is principally about proclamation, not philosophy.

We proclaim that all human beings are in bondage to sin and cannot free ourselves through our own will, but that Christ has died for our sake, and in the waters of baptism sin is washed away and he saves us.

 

[HatGuy]

Bondage of the will I could say that he did. It’s evident that the Arminians of the day, after Calvin and Luther were gone, had issues with the gospel of grace for them to put out 5 articles of remonstrance. It’s hard to say exactly what Luther did or did not hold to but bondage of the Will sounds like he did. About Lutherans today, I feel like they are more Arminian than reformed.

You'll need to be more specific about what you mean "doctrines of grace" then. If you refer to TULIP, as most Calvinists do when using that term, I'm afraid you'll not find a friend in Luther - the guy who was instrumental in forming these "solas".

Bondage of the Will may allow one to go with total depravity to a degree, but Luther is not a Calvinist and all the other "doctrines of grace" are either not supported or discussed in such a different way that you might as well call Luther a Calvminian

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Not everything has to do with Calvinism vs Arminianism .

Also, this reasoning would also mean even Lutherans don't agree with the five solas .

Lutherans are nearer to Calvinists than Arminians though. Historically Lutherans deny free will, affirm total depravity, affirm monergistic regeneration, to name three important distinctions off the top of my head.