First Lutheran Houston 2024 debate series:

[BBAS 64]

Good day,

Thought I would post this here:

First Lutheran Houston 2024 debate series:

First Lutheran

Sunday School: 10 am Worship: 11 am Easter Brunch 9:30 am Sunday: 11 am

flhouston.org

February 16, 2024, 7:00 pm: Is the Doctrine of Sola Scripture True? - SOLD OUT, will be livestreamed. Just check out the front page of this website.

Calvinist James White and Roman Catholic Trent Horn will debate the "formal principle" of the Reformation, sola scriptura, or Scripture Alone. From Luther on, Protestants have argued that the Bible is the only "God-breathed" revelation that can provide sufficient knowledge of God and His salvation. Roman Catholics argue that the Tradition is equally valid and important as a source. The disagreement on sources has led to a host of other disagreements. Who is right? Both speakers are the top apologists in their fields, so this debate promises to be both interesting and important.




February 17, 2024, 7:00 pm: Is the Doctrine of Purgatory True?

Calvinist James White and Roman Catholic Trent Horn will debate the doctrine of Purgatory. At the start of the Reformation, the question of Purgatory was front and center. After all, it was an indulgence that helped one escape Purgatory to which Martin Luther objected in the 95 Theses. Protestants argue that the finished work of Christ on the cross is sufficient for salvation. Roman Catholics argue that without a purging of sin, one cannot enter into the presence of God. Who is right?




March 7, 2024, 7:00 pm: Does John 6:44 Teach Unconditional Election? - SOLD OUT, will be livestreamed. Just check out the front page of this website.

James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and Leighton Flowers of Soteriology 101 will take a hyper-focused look at John's Gospel and exactly what it means when Jesus says, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them." This will be a formal, moderated debate.




March 9, 2024, 7:00 pm: Is Jesus Yahweh?

Dr. James White and Dr. Dale Tuggy will be debating whether Jesus is Yahweh. That is, is the doctrine of the Trinity true? Is Jesus God's Son and also the same being as the Father? Are both Father and Son rightly understood as Yahweh, God's self-given name? This debate is sponsored by the Unitarian Christian Alliance.

 

[RandyPNW]

Good day,

Thought I would post this here:

First Lutheran Houston 2024 debate series:

First Lutheran

Sunday School: 10 am Worship: 11 am Easter Brunch 9:30 am Sunday: 11 am

flhouston.org

February 16, 2024, 7:00 pm: Is the Doctrine of Sola Scripture True? - SOLD OUT, will be livestreamed. Just check out the front page of this website.

Calvinist James White and Roman Catholic Trent Horn will debate the "formal principle" of the Reformation, sola scriptura, or Scripture Alone. From Luther on, Protestants have argued that the Bible is the only "God-breathed" revelation that can provide sufficient knowledge of God and His salvation. Roman Catholics argue that the Tradition is equally valid and important as a source. The disagreement on sources has led to a host of other disagreements. Who is right? Both speakers are the top apologists in their fields, so this debate promises to be both interesting and important.




February 17, 2024, 7:00 pm: Is the Doctrine of Purgatory True?

Calvinist James White and Roman Catholic Trent Horn will debate the doctrine of Purgatory. At the start of the Reformation, the question of Purgatory was front and center. After all, it was an indulgence that helped one escape Purgatory to which Martin Luther objected in the 95 Theses. Protestants argue that the finished work of Christ on the cross is sufficient for salvation. Roman Catholics argue that without a purging of sin, one cannot enter into the presence of God. Who is right?




March 7, 2024, 7:00 pm: Does John 6:44 Teach Unconditional Election? - SOLD OUT, will be livestreamed. Just check out the front page of this website.

James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and Leighton Flowers of Soteriology 101 will take a hyper-focused look at John's Gospel and exactly what it means when Jesus says, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them." This will be a formal, moderated debate.




March 9, 2024, 7:00 pm: Is Jesus Yahweh?

Dr. James White and Dr. Dale Tuggy will be debating whether Jesus is Yahweh. That is, is the doctrine of the Trinity true? Is Jesus God's Son and also the same being as the Father? Are both Father and Son rightly understood as Yahweh, God's self-given name? This debate is sponsored by the Unitarian Christian Alliance.

Yes, it's interesting, but totally predictable what each will offer. We are always to be guided in our thinking by biblical principles. But people can't always carry the Bible around with them.

Point is: God enlisted 12 men and gave them authority to found the Church upon certain principles and certain truths. It is just the foundation.

We build upon that foundation, not with material that contradicts either that spirit or that truth. We can still use the Bible to rein in material that gets added that is inconsonant with Christian truth.

 

[jas3]

Thanks for posting these, I've noticed surprisingly little discussion of these particular debates on CF.

I've listened to the debates on sola scriptura and purgatory, and to be honest I don't think either was a great debate. In the debate on sola scriptura, Trent absolutely demolished James, who got hung up on what are really very fundamental misunderstandings of how the Catholic magisterium works as well as on demanding that Trent produce some other source that is theopneustos instead of addressing Trent's actual criticism, which was that "Scripture is the sole infallible rule of faith" doesn't necessarily follow from "Scripture is God-breathed."

In fact, James spent a lot of the debate railing against unrelated Catholic beliefs like purgatory and indulgences as examples of "what happens if you introduce authorities other than Scripture" or something like that, as if the Orthodox didn't exist. He said that he wanted to move the debate past the 90's, but having listened to several of his debates from the 90's and 2000's, this was a major step backwards in terms of the level of discourse.

The purgatory debate was similarly unproductive, but for different reasons. I think James had the upper hand in this debate. Trent was unusually aggressive and unprofessional in this debate, and as far as his argument, he took an approach very characteristic of Catholic Answers and tried to prove only the most milquetoast version of purgatory, as a vague concept of purgation of attachment to sin after death. That approach works well for online tracts, but in a more academic debate setting, you need to be able to interact with the broader tradition instead of just falling back to "well that's just a theologian's opinion, that's not what the current edition of the catechism says."

One other related video I listened to was James's post-debate review on his show, Dividing Line. One interesting point he brought up is that this format of debate, which is pretty standard for modern debates, really limits what can be talked about because the time constraints are so tight. He wondered if going back to a much older format, like Luther and Eck had where the debates took place over several days and involved multiple debaters who could take breaks to look up references and not have to have every bit of relevant information memorized beforehand, would be more productive. I myself would be interested in watching a debate like that, since the modern debate format really only lends itself to a limited set of arguments that can be made within the time limit on any given subject.

 

[Nagomirov]

In the last decade, many Protestants have converted to Orthodoxy. In 1987 former Campus Crusade for Christ staffer Peter Gillquist led 2,000 evangelicals in joining the Antiochian Orthodox Church. Another well-known convert is Franky Schaeffer, son of the late apologist Francis Schaeffer.

 

[Nagomirov]

Saint Patrick Orthodox Church is an Antiochian Western Rite Parish, located in Bealeton, VA.

 

[Nagomirov]

Orthodox Western Rite Liturgy - Priest Communes.

 

[BBAS 64]

In the last decade, many Protestants have converted to Orthodoxy. In 1987 former Campus Crusade for Christ staffer Peter Gillquist led 2,000 evangelicals in joining the Antiochian Orthodox Church. Another well-known convert is Franky Schaeffer, son of the late apologist Francis Schaeffer.

Good day.

Not sure any of these debates have anything to do with the Orthodox denomination.....

Did you watch the debate(s)?

IN HIm,

Bill

 

[jas3]

Trent did a post-debate review in the first part of his latest podcast episode: #875 - FFAF: Sola Scriptura, Purgatory, and IVF

Not much new, although I thought his explanation on refusing to answer the demand to point to another "God-breathed" source of revelation was interesting. In summary, he says that if you engage with that demand and say "the Magisterium," the debate becomes about whether or not Catholic magisterial teaching is God-breathed, instead of the original topic of sola scriptura. Also, it allows your opponent to slip in the assumption that sola scriptura is the default position if you can't point to anything else that's God-breathed.

I have to say, I kind of cringe at Trent pronouncing θεόπνευστος as "thay-op-nay-yoo-stas". He does have a point that the "p" sound in πν isn't silent, but ευ is a diphthong that should be pronounced like "you".